Soundfont Player Questions?

[stratman]

Right now I’ve got two VSTi’s that play soundfonts. See links below.

http://www.project5.com/products/instruments/sfz_player/default.asp

http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

I’d like to try using a number of different soundfonts at the same time.

I mainly use the sfz player because it’s easier to use for a thicko like me. However, I seem to get a few glitches if I try to use more than one instance of the sfz player. Question 1. Is this normal and are there any tricks to get around this problem?

Shortcircuit 1 plays soundfonts, so that gives me two options. Question 2. I couldn’t seem to get Shortcircuit 2 to play soundfonts. Am I missing something?

Question 3. I’d like to experiment with a number soundfonts in one song. Are there any tricks I can use to achieve this? Are there any other soundfont players out there, or soundfont players where I can use multiple instances.

Given time I could work this out myself, but I need quick answers because I'd like to get on with recording and I’m already in trouble for spending more time with Reaper than with my wife. Any help would be appreciated, even if you can't answer all the questions.

Pete

[jm67]

Yep, I've run into the same problem with sfz. When I want multiple soundfonts in one project, I use Take1 by TWest Productions. It has no glitches with multiple instances. But... to my ear the soundfonts just don't sound through Take1 as good as when played through sfz. Not sure why - Take1 has more options for filtering the playback, but (for example) my favorite trumpet soundfont sounds a bit less realistic.

[corazon]

Right now I’ve got two VSTi’s that play soundfonts. See links below.


http://www.project5.com/products/instruments/sfz_player/default.asp

http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

I’d like to try using a number of different soundfonts at the same time.

Pete
Hi
I just loaded 3 instances of the free SaFfron, each with a different soundfont, all was OK. It's by Fretted Synth Audio, with a gorgeous ArtVera interface, her best work, in my opinion. It has a very nice built in multi-fx, with chorus, flanger, phaser, delay, and reverb, and typical synth knobs for tweaking.
Have fun!

[teej813]

Seems to me, i recall a convo recently that mentioned that the original version of SFZ wouldn't allow multiple instances. It was updated to fix this. As i recall, i DLd the new version, and it solved the problem.

So you might try DLing the latest version.
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/769.html

Tried to search for SaFfron, but only found this...
http://www.cockos.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8388.html


tj

[stratman]

Thanks for your help. I tried the KVR link for sfz and it’s version 197, which is the one I’ve already got.

I got Take 1 from here http://rekkerd.org/terry-west-releases-take1/. I’ve just checked three instances and Take 1 was fine. Whereas, sfz is definitely not happy with only two instances.

I should have done more research on the forum before I posted because I just checked the thread suggested by teej813.

I’m a bit concerned that the sound quality of Take 1 and SafFron may not be as good as sfz.

Has anyone purchased sfz+ http://store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=35-CWSZ1.40-20E and used it in Reaper. Does it definitely overcome the multiple instance problem of sfz?

Pete

[stratman]

I just tried SafFron, which I found here http://rekkerd.org/frettedsynth-releases-saffron-soundfont-player/.

It’s very pretty. But when I tried more than one instance Reaper went ‘belly up’.

edit: Sorry, I'm forgetting Reaper is global. Here's a translation http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/belly+up.html

Pete

[hamish]

both project5 and dontcrack.com have sfz197, and it has been reported previously in the forum that two instances will cause crackles. I got the sfz.dll v2 from somewhere I can't remember. On a post in these forums SOMEWHERE there is a link to version two of sfz.dll. You might try this page for sf2 players, it's got 7 free ones http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/free-vst/samples

unfortunately still sfz197

If no one can find a link to v2 I'm happy to email it to you. (the dll, not a link!!!!)

[TimOBrien]

Another really good one, in case you haven't found it already, is Bismark's BS-16.
It works on both Mac and PC (one license is good for BOTH platforms) and allows you to run 8 simultaneous soundfonts on different channels.

Not free, but it is good.

http://homepage.mac.com/bismark/bs-16/index.html

[hamish]

SynthFontVSTi comes with the standalone synthfont. I have yet to try it in REAPER. I used it in Logic and its OK, you can load 16 different sf2's one on each channel. I don't think it is as good as sfz though. It's fairly free. Shareware or donationware maybe.

[teej813]

No clue which version i have or where i got it. But it's attached here in case it's different than the one you've got. You might check filesize.


tj

[stratman]

teej813,

I've just used three instances of your version without any problems.

My original version had a file size of 652K, whereas your one has a file size of 656K.

Many, many thanks for that :)

(edit: that weird, it's still showing 0 views against the file in teej813's post, but I've just downloaded it.)

Pete

[teej813]

Glad it helped, Strat. Funny they haven't made this version available for DL on KVR.

I read about this version long, long ago in a forum far, far away. It was in response to someone asking the developer about using multiple instances. As i recall, he posted this version, and said 'try this'. I remember being impressed that the dev responded so quickly.

Anyway, guess i was just in the right place at the right time.

Odd, that.. it's never happened before. :D


tj

[hamish]

I tried Kenneth Rundts SynthFontVSTi (www.synthfont.com) and it's good in reaper. Admittedly the 'engine' is not as good sounding as sfz, but if you want to use a large GM set and you're going to use sfz it's going to cause problems. SyntFontVSTi is a virtual 16 channel softsynth which can load 16 sf2's at once and it has a very basic built-in mixer for each instrument/channel. I find it clicks occaisionaly with lots of layers (may be disk speed dependant).

SynthFontVSTi uses the FULL sf2, unlike some other freeware 'sf2 players'. The only thing I'll say against it compared to Bismarks (which isn't free) is that it cant do Continuous Controllers (ever Vol or Pan) per channel. Vol and Pan (and any other cc like pitchbend affect all instruments) AND multiple instances or SynthFont are not good.

Brings us back to one of the original questions, is SFZ+ worth the money?

If you are using multiple, single instrument sf2's use sfz (that 656kB version in the zip from teej definitely IS ver.2)

If you are using a multiple instruments from a big GM set I reccommend SynthFontVSTi, as sfz cannot mix channels (pan and vol). HEY I need to check that. sfz might be a full GM/GS unit, I've never tried. Both are only 2 outs anyway.

[stratman]

If I load up a few sounds in the SynthfontVSTi, only the top one makes a sound. It’s probably me being stupid and I need more time to play with it.

Anyway, thanks for all the info. I’ve now got what I need. Multiple instances and soundfont players coming out of my ears :)

I might pay for Bismark or SFZ+ at some later time, if I need more from soundfonts.

Now I need to stop playing with my new toys and get on with making music.

Thanks

Pete

[NAS]

I just tried SafFron, which I found here http://rekkerd.org/frettedsynth-releases-saffron-soundfont-player/.

It’s very pretty. But when I tried more than one instance Reaper went ‘belly up’.



I think it is made in Synthedit
Synthedit has a problem running multiple instances of plugins on multi core machines at the moment
That may have been your problem

NAS

[stratman]

Thanks, I've got a dual core processor, so maybe that's the cause of the problem.

I wonder whether that's why my DSK VSTi's don't like multiple instances as well?

Pete

[Wolffman]

Hi Stratman
I've just started to use soundfonts so i'm not really up to speed on the different players but like you I have Shortcircut 1 and I have played around a little with it after first seeing this thread. And I havent had any trouble playing different sounds from 2 or 3 different sound fonts using shortcircuit 1.
EG: I loaded a standard GM type midi file and the tracks were split by reaper when the file loaded. than i made a new track & loaded shortcircut into that, then sent all the seperate tracks to the shortcircut track. Then i loaded the different soundfonts & assigned the sound i wanted to the relevant midi channel ( drums Ch 10, Bass Ch 2 and so on and all seemed to play without any trouble. I think this is what you were wanting to do so just thought i'd let you know that shortcircut seems to do this no worries. I also have a Dual core pocessor and it seems fine.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Wolffman

[thedavistator]

I just finished trying out all the soundfont players in this thread and still haven't found what I need. Almost all of my instruments are layered so that cuts out 90% of these players. I don't understand why these programmers left out layering capabilities, especially when you are programming drums. The only ones I've found that support layering are SynthFont and Bismark BS-1 not B-16. These both work fine if you are only using one instance, but they both will lock up Reaper if you're using as many as I am. One thing I could do is take the layers out of each instrument and make them their own instrument but that would be a pain. I wish there was a way to somehow reroute my soundcard wavesynth as a soundfont player plugin since it is the best sounding anyway. Anyone know how to do this so that you can adjust levels, add effects, and everything else you can do to a normal audio track?

Dave

[hourglass]

not to take focus away from thedavistator - please answer his question too - but i wanted to ask for some advice about sfz, which i downloaded just the other day.

i'm using some GM bank soundfonts (i.e. they hold the full GM standard instruments). but when i select channel 10 in the sfz window, i don't get drumkits - what am i doing wrong?

ta muchly.

[stratman]

hourglass, I’ve downloaded the FluidR3 GM soundfont set.

In the sfz sound player click on the arrow next to Bank and select Bank 128. There are loads of kit options if you click on the arrow next to Program.

btw. I see you’re from Reading. I was in Reading last Tuesday. There’s another fascinating fact.

Pete

[hourglass]

genius, that works perfectly. thanks!

what drew you to reading? if you're about tomorrow night some friends of mine are gigging, and my local collective (www.doubledotdash.org) are celebrating our fourth birthday. all are welcome! pm me if you would like details.

[stratman]

Hourglass, I had some company business in Reading.

I live in Woking and work in Basingstoke, which is pretty local to you.

I can't make the gig tomorrow, but thanks for letting me know.

Have you joined the Reaper user group UK? See link below.
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17218

I'm hoping the group might have a big get together at some point.

Pete

[hourglass]

have just joined! thanks for the link and all the help. have a good weekend!

EDIT: thedavistator's question still needs answering, if anyone can help?

[stratman]

The only ones I've found that support layering are SynthFont and Bismark BS-1 not B-16.
Dave

The words describing the sfz+ engine (http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SFZ/engine.asp) state "256 voices of polyphony, unlimited layers per voice"

I haven't tried it, but this might give you what you are looking for. Also, it's not free.

edit: I've just found this document http://www.courseptr.com/downloads/chapterpreview/3-314-7_CH04_FINAL.pdf

On page 2 it seems to suggest that the free sfz player has unlimited layers.


Pete

[thedavistator]

Thanks guys,
I tried sfz+ and it fries the project with more than a couple instances running. I don't understand it. This technology isn't exactly new; how can it be that hard to duplicate?

[hourglass]

Thanks guys,
I tried sfz+ and it fries the project with more than a couple instances running. I don't understand it. This technology isn't exactly new; how can it be that hard to duplicate?

hmm... using the link that teej813 gave i've run five simultaneous copies of sfz in Cubase LE with no problems (apart from running out of RAM, due to my shameful pc). haven't tried it in REAPER yet though.