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View Full Version : New Delete confirmation - can it be optional?


Bevosss
07-07-2008, 12:35 AM
+ added confirmation when deleting tracks with delete key (action that deletes based on context)


Although that's probably a good thing for new users, it's going to break a few macros here. I'm pretty careful where my focus is anyway.

Any chance for an option to disable this? :)

Anomaly
07-07-2008, 12:47 AM
Personally for me, this feature solves one of the most annoying thing with reaper when tying to delete an item, but whole track get accidentally deleted.
However I don't make resistance if it will be optional :)

cheers

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 12:51 AM
Personally for me, this feature solves one of the most annoying thing with reaper when tying to delete an item, but whole track get accidentally deleted.
However I don't make resistance if it will be optional :)

cheers

No, it is a good thing, and I may well use it.

But I'd like to turn it off when rendering for instance (using macros that delete the muted track).

Anomaly
07-07-2008, 01:02 AM
Jep, we don't want to break macros from working either. Could it be possible that macros are able to override the confirmation? If yes, that would save us from turning the option on/off every time we want to use a macro.

Dstruct
07-07-2008, 01:09 AM
Personally for me, this feature solves one of the most annoying thing with reaper when tying to delete an item, but whole track get accidentally deleted.

yeah, i'm also happy about this new safety dialog!

Alex Stone
07-07-2008, 01:33 AM
+ added confirmation when deleting tracks with delete key (action that deletes based on context)


Although that's probably a good thing for new users, it's going to break a few macros here. I'm pretty careful where my focus is anyway.

Any chance for an option to disable this? :)

Are you sure?

Are you really sure?

Are you really, really, sure?


Another vote for optional....


Alex.

p.s. is there something wrong with ctl+z, becuase it really works well here. Or is the fact it's a keystroke, too much for some?

Shan
07-07-2008, 01:38 AM
yeah, i'm also happy about this new safety dialog!

Just hit ctrl+z.

These "confirmation" windows, for me, are huge flow busters during the creation process. I dont see the logic in this when one can just hit ctrl+z and presto....you're "deleted" tracks are now back.

The "R" in REAPER stands for "Rapid". These confirmation windows, in my opinion, do quite the opposite.

Shane

Shan
07-07-2008, 01:41 AM
Personally for me, this feature solves one of the most annoying thing with reaper when tying to delete an item, but whole track get accidentally deleted.
However I don't make resistance if it will be optional :)

cheers

Just hit ctrl+z. :D :D

If ones goal is to delete an item, how can you "accidentally" delete the whole track? Anywho...ctrl+z does wonders. I dont see the logic behind these "confirmation" windows when you can just hit ctrl+z.

Shane

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 01:44 AM
Just hit ctrl+z.

These "confirmation" windows, for me, are huge flow busters during the creation process. I dont see the logic in this when one can just hit ctrl+z and presto....you're "deleted" tracks are now back.

The "R" in REAPER stands for "Rapid". these confirmation windows, in my opinion, do quite the opposite.

Shane

It's only a problem if you delete a slow-loading vsti. Then it's a bitch... :D

If it only did it for those tracks, I'd probably use it.

Optional please... :D

Shan
07-07-2008, 01:48 AM
http://img133.**************/img133/3154/areyousurewt2.jpg

Dstruct
07-07-2008, 02:08 AM
It's only a problem if you delete a slow-loading vsti. Then it's a bitch

Exactly. That's why I love it.

Shan
07-07-2008, 02:11 AM
It's only a problem if you delete a slow-loading vsti. Then it's a bitch... :D

If it only did it for those tracks, I'd probably use it.

Optional please... :D

The solution is to not delete it. :D :D

Shane

Art Evans
07-07-2008, 02:13 AM
I'd vote for this as an option too.

Shan
07-07-2008, 02:16 AM
Are you sure you want to create a track?

clicks "yes".

Are you 100% certain you want to create this track?

clicks "yes".

Ok, but this is your last warning. If you click "yes" you will have a created track.

I'd like to see the "R" in Reaper applied. Confirmation windows slow down production. Slo Tools started adding these a few years back and made it an unproductive elegant mess. :D

Shane

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 02:29 AM
The solution is to not delete it. :D :D

Shane

Yeah, that is my solution too. And just wear it if you do... :D

I must admit it doesn't happen very often these days, being careful with the focus and all,and if it does I blame myself, not Reaper...

But if the team are really worried about deleting tracks, give us a separate action for 'delete selected items'...then no one would screw up (maybe! :D )

Edit: f**k me, that's in there now...when did that get added?? I'm off to map a shortcut for Ctrl-Shift-Delete to that...

Jae.Thomas
07-07-2008, 02:33 AM
optional, please

Shan
07-07-2008, 02:33 AM
...and dont forget the killer history window Justin gave us...so...I do not see any logic in this at all. It's nothing but an annoying flow buster.

Shane

Shan
07-07-2008, 02:35 AM
Edit: f**k me, that's in there now...when did that get added??

Please dont tell me we get this annoying confirmation window when we make it an action.

brb...gotta test :d

Shane

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 02:47 AM
Nah 'remove selected items' has been in there for ever...it's cut/copy selected items that still isn't. Disregard...

Valle
07-07-2008, 03:05 AM
He he... My very first post (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=14912) here at Cockos Forums was about this issue. But the response was mainly negative (still is?), so I thought it was never going to happen! :D

Posted by Shan: "These 'confirmation' windows, for me, are huge flow busters during the creation process. I dont see the logic in this when one can just hit ctrl+z and presto....you're 'deleted' tracks are now back."

Yes, but what if you realize that a track is "missing" (from a take last week or earlier), and the only explanation you can come up with is that it must've been deleted by mistake. Now, I know one could dive into all those back-up files and just hope they will solve the problem, even though it's timewasting as hell. If back-ups are of no help at all, the next thing to do is to rig it all up again and re-record everything — quite timewasting as well. I understand and respect users who give priority to the "'R' in REAPER". But there has to be a good balance between "rapid", "non-timewasting" and safety. So I agree with some of the posters above, delete confirmation could be optional.

nicholas
07-07-2008, 03:07 AM
optional, please

Yes, this really does need to be be able to be turned on/off as an option. Otherwise I'm gonna go nuts .... ;)

billybk1
07-07-2008, 03:52 AM
Yes, this really does need to be be able to be turned on/off as an option. Otherwise I'm gonna go nuts .... ;)

I agree as I would hardly ever use it and would be a time waster constantly dealing with "Are you sure?" dialog boxes. If I make a mistake Crtl + Z quickly fixes it and what about Undo History?

Cheers,

Billy Buck

slops
07-07-2008, 06:35 AM
I agree as I would hardly ever use it and would be a time waster constantly dealing with "Are you sure?" dialog boxes. If I make a mistake Crtl + Z quickly fixes it and what about Undo History?


i agree 100%...

please make this optional!
this is gonna drive me absolutely crazy.

synth
07-07-2008, 07:59 AM
+1 for making it optional

Justin
07-07-2008, 08:23 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-Justin

BlackBart
07-07-2008, 08:29 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-Justin


I love you, man!
BB

ps...Delete prompt ON is the default state? That'd make sense to me.

Alex Stone
07-07-2008, 08:49 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-Justin

Thanks, it's appreciated.

Alex.

Justin
07-07-2008, 08:56 AM
It'll actually be a new action:

Remove items/envpts/tracks (depending on focus)

and the old action will be

Remove items/envpts/tracks (depending on focus) - no prompting

The new action will be the default bound to Delete, but any bindings you did with the old action will remain on the old action (to preserve macros etc).

-Justin

Tallisman
07-07-2008, 09:35 AM
Are you sure?

Are you really sure?

Are you really, really, sure?


Another vote for optional....


Alex.

p.s. is there something wrong with ctl+z, becuase it really works well here. Or is the fact it's a keystroke, too much for some?

Crtl+z is great!
QWorks perfectly and is not too much to ask.


but what about when you realize 1/2 hour later that you delete that tracks, and have since made a number of legendary edits?

I have done that several time... and what I have done, to preserve the legendary edits, is spawn a new instance... open the back ups and copy and past the track back.

++1 for optional/conditional
.t

edit: great news!~

drew
07-07-2008, 09:39 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-Justin

I'm also not sure it needs to ask you when a track has no media, no FX and no active receives.. ie if it's totally unused.

That way you'd tidy up a session really quickly since it could do it in two passes - deleting the unused ones first and then a single prompt about deleting tracks that contain media/fx/receives.


To all those who say "just ctrl-z" the problem is when you don't see it happening. I've had a track go "missing" in a session with over 50 tracks and not seen it disappear at the time. If we one day have the ability to hide tracks in the TCP we will get more used to not seeing all tracks and it becomes less obvious - so I for one and delighted we have this prompt as a safety net!

Alex Stone
07-07-2008, 11:08 AM
I'm also not sure it needs to ask you when a track has no media, no FX and no active receives.. ie if it's totally unused.

That way you'd tidy up a session really quickly since it could do it in two passes - deleting the unused ones first and then a single prompt about deleting tracks that contain media/fx/receives.


To all those who say "just ctrl-z" the problem is when you don't see it happening. I've had a track go "missing" in a session with over 50 tracks and not seen it disappear at the time. If we one day have the ability to hide tracks in the TCP we will get more used to not seeing all tracks and it becomes less obvious - so I for one and delighted we have this prompt as a safety net!

Drew, a good point, and in the just released updated, erm, prerelease, we both get what we want, so we're all happy now.

Alex.

:)

Shan
07-07-2008, 01:59 PM
...Yes, but what if you realize that a track is "missing" (from a take last week or earlier), and the only explanation you can come up with is that it must've been deleted by mistake...

...but what about when you realize 1/2 hour later that you delete that tracks, and have since made a number of legendary edits?

I have done that several time...

...To all those who say "just ctrl-z" the problem is when you don't see it happening. I've had a track go "missing" in a session with over 50 tracks...


Then hit ctrl+alt+z and you'll be in a very powerful part of Reaper. :D

...and then of course we have some very powerful Session backup features, which should be used for your "Safety net":

http://img144.**************/img144/7789/sessionbackuplx3.png

I still dont see the logic in this with 6 powerful options already but I'm glad we can now turn it off. :D :D

Being able to customize Reaper like we can for our own personal workflows definitely makes it very powerful and puts it above most DAWs out there.

Shane

drew
07-07-2008, 03:06 PM
@Shan.. agreed we have lots of great ways of making backups and going back to them + undoing.

But you've just quoted three people saying the same thing and still missed point!

This isn't about being able to get track back.. it's about not losing it without (initially) realising in the first place. So the advantage of the _optional_ confirmation is tell you that it's happening at the time.

With a project full of orchestral parts or a tune with 20 or more percussion tracks, you can be sitting for ages trying to work out why it doesn't sound right before working out that something is missing.


@Alex - yeah we got the option. Wasn't exactly the thing I was saying tho. I had meant if you hit delete with multiple tracks selected then it could delete all the totally unused ones without prompt and _then_ prompt if there were tracks with media. That way you could select all, get rid of empty tracks and still say no to the prompt to keep the used ones. (Basically it would become a "removed unused tracks" function).

Ben Zero
07-07-2008, 03:48 PM
This issue could be solved - at least partially - without the need for a dialog pop-up, by making it abundantly clear on the UI whether or not it is the timeline or the track control panel that is in focus, ie 'active'.

This could be achieved, for example, by the track number on the TCP flashing if it's the TCP rather than the timeline that's in focus. Or something similar.

Obviously if it's much clearer what's selected/what's in focus then it would be much harder to accidentally delete and track and so the need for the 'are you sure' pop-up is mitigated.

Just my two dBs :)

Ben

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 06:08 PM
It'll actually be a new action:

Remove items/envpts/tracks (depending on focus)

and the old action will be

Remove items/envpts/tracks (depending on focus) - no prompting

The new action will be the default bound to Delete, but any bindings you did with the old action will remain on the old action (to preserve macros etc).

-Justin

Nice solution.

Another focus issue with macros could be solved with actions for cut/copy selected items.

Some macros you have to be so careful not to click on a track,if you want the item copied or cut instead of the track accidentally, so if you are in an action-coding mood, those are long term worthy candidates. ;)

Justin
07-07-2008, 06:37 PM
Nice solution.

Another focus issue with macros could be solved with actions for cut/copy selected items.

Some macros you have to be so careful not to click on a track,if you want the item copied or cut instead of the track accidentally, so if you are in an action-coding mood, those are long term worthy candidates. ;)

Adding actions for cut/copy items (ignoring focus)

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 06:42 PM
Adding actions for cut/copy items (ignoring focus)

Sweet! Thanks :)

Valle
07-07-2008, 10:38 PM
I still dont see the logic in this with 6 powerful options already but I'm glad we can now turn it off.

I'm glad too! But as for the logic, here's a simple way to describe my point. Please try the steps below and tell me what you think:

(Note: it's important you follow the steps exactly as written. Don't select, click, drag or anything in between.)

1. Start/create a new project
2. Insert (n) new/empty tracks, where n = number of tracks needed to make the MCP/TCP scrollable.
3. Name the first track "FIRST" (by first double-clicking on its label)
4. Scroll to the last track, don't "select" it, just mute it.
5. Hit delete-key "by accident".
6. What actually happened?

Bevosss
07-07-2008, 11:15 PM
6. What actually happened?

Your 'Selected' track got deleted (named FIRST), as the focus was on it...makes sense to me.

The option is getting added now anyway, so no need to debate it further... ;)

maa
07-08-2008, 03:51 AM
Thank you Justin for stopping inadvertantly deleting tracks off screen - thats really buggered me several times in the past.

Could you also remove the double confirmation when not accepting a take?


Thanks again,


maa

bogo
07-08-2008, 04:06 PM
I would appreciate to not have the double confirmation delete take too.
Thanks.

Shan
07-10-2008, 01:45 AM
@Shan.. agreed we have lots of great ways...

Love the new avatar drew!! Waiting for some PT ones like this to pop up. :D

As far as the topic in this thread, there's no more debate as we have the option to use or not use this. One of the joys of Reaper.

Shane

maa
07-10-2008, 03:33 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-JustinOh shit - its still happening after all!

How on earth do I switch this funktion on please?

No confirmation dilog here but whole track dissapeared when off screen!!!!!!!

Dstruct
07-10-2008, 03:54 AM
How on earth do I switch this funktion on please

In 2.4 it's on by default here. If it's not working for you, then search the action list for "no prompting" ...

maa
07-10-2008, 04:01 AM
Maybe its to do with the double record take dialog.
I switched all confirmation off there to get rid of the horrid double question.

Now I can't find that either in the program options.
Is there a secret place?

What is an 'Action List' and where might that be?

Thanks

maa

(using 2.4 pre5)

Dstruct
07-10-2008, 04:12 AM
What is an 'Action List' and where might that be?

"action" means "keycommand". i thought you're using reaper already for quite some time ...


using 2.4

why not the final 2.4?

Bevosss
07-10-2008, 04:25 AM
What is an 'Action List' and where might that be?

)

Help - Show action list ...the default shortcut is (?)

Very useful for finding what's mapped where... :)

maa
07-10-2008, 06:33 AM
Thak you both for the clues.
I'm assumed there is a choice in the program options which must be off in my case. Or is it in the normal menue?


(now 2.4)

drew
07-10-2008, 06:45 AM
Options>Preferences
in the Keyboard/Control tab, click "find" then press your DEL key.

See if it says:
"Remove items/tracks/env pts (depending on focus)"

It shouldn't say:
"Remove items/tracks/env pts (depending on focus) - no prompting"

..or anything else

maa
07-10-2008, 07:52 AM
Right - the confirmation dialog is on by default but it only works on tracks containing items or having FX etc. I tried on unused tracks which still go without warning - not so bad though of course.

Anyway the question remains:
Where has the option has been placed?

Where can I turn the take delete double confirmation back on.

Anyone.....?

drew
07-10-2008, 08:00 AM
Deleting totally unused tracks without warning is by design.

If you have a track with no media, FX or receives it literally won't make a difference if you accidentally delete it - and since it has no media you wouldn't have it selected when deleting media etc, so should be pretty difficult to delete accidentally anyway!

Not sure what the double confirmation when not accepting a take is.. are you referring to "Take: Delete current take from items (prompt to confirm)"?

maa
07-10-2008, 09:42 AM
Still no answer then - I've asked now - what - 4 times?
Do I need to start a new thread to get an answer?



Deleting totally unused tracks without warning is by design........and since it has no media you wouldn't have it selected when deleting media etc, so should be pretty difficult to delete accidentally anyway!

You didn't get it did you.

The scenario was always:
You hit delete but it doesn't do what you wanted - its done somthing off screen which you didn't see.
That was the trap.

Its fixed now so not to worry.
Losing an unused track is not so bad but still not right.
I never want anything deleted that is not on screen wether I selected it on purpose or not.
The simple fact you can't see it makes you wonder if you hit the key properly etc.

A better solution would be the confirmation dialog:
"Delete off screen item/track/FX" or what have you.


Not sure what the double confirmation when not accepting a take is.. are you referring to "Take: Delete current take from items (prompt to confirm)"?

Its when you are punching in or recording and don't want the take. After hitting stop you get an option dialog. If you keep the file its ok but if you don't you get yet another dialog.

Correct would be ONE question keep it - yes or no.

I hope this will be removed soon.



So who is going to win the prize and awnser my two questions?
Justin ?

Cheers

maa

drew
07-10-2008, 10:21 AM
You had asked two questions as far as I could tell.

I had answered the one about how to turn the track delete confirmation on/off.

Just to restate that you decide whether you want to be prompted by choosing what your delete key does in the keyboard/shortcuts section of preferences.

I then elaborated about why when you had tested it on totally unused tracks, it still deleted them without prompting which hopefully cleared up that confusion.

As for the question - apologies for taking 2 hours to reply following my last post. Now you've clarified it I see the issue.

I don't personally use the "prompt on stop" option so hadn't realised what you meant.

Incidentally it can be turned on and off in Options>Preferences then Recording tab - "Prompt to save/delete new files".

However.. yes you're quite right in saying there is a second prompt after saying "delete selected" which I agree does mean you have to confirm twice.

My suggestion would be for Cockos to implement the same "Send files to recycle bin" checkbox (used on the Project Cleanup window) on the "Select files to save or delete" window.. on by default of course.

That way it really wouldn't be necessary for a confirmation prompt.

maa
07-10-2008, 01:55 PM
Thank you Drew for your answer.
The 'Prompt to save / delete' took me a while to find but thaks for that.

I still don't get how to change a preference by bringing up the shortcuts though.
In this case the confirmation of deleting a track is supposed to be a user preference but now you are suggesting its not a preference but just changing what the delete key actually does?
Hmm - not at all intuitive.

Bevosss
07-10-2008, 05:39 PM
I still don't get how to change a preference by bringing up the shortcuts though.


You don't change the shortcuts in the action window, it's just a fast way to check what a key does. You change them in options/preferences/keyboard control.

Also the action window is a very fast way to find an action to execute, if you forget whether it's in a right click menu or other menu.

Preferences and keyboard shortcuts are 2 separate things...

maa
07-10-2008, 11:35 PM
Preferences and keyboard shortcuts are 2 separate things...Exactly - thats what I said above but someone said this confirmation dialog is an option so I was naturally looking in options / preferences and not keybord shorcuts.

I still don't get how to change a preference by bringing up the shortcuts though.
Delete confirmation for takes is in the preferences why does this not follow the same concept?
Anyone know?
This seems to be a complete mess.

Put it another way:
Options belong in - well - program options right?
Shortcuts belong in shortcuts.

So why is an optional dialog in keyboard shortcuts??????

Tallisman
07-11-2008, 12:08 AM
as I recall, when the new delete-safe crud was being implemented, it was first done in such a way that deleting tracks needed a confirmation.

this was not optimal as it killed several very useful macros.
Thus the lords of cobol graciously made the confirmation dialog optional.

It was never meant to be an option for the prefs pages, iirc, but rather we now had a new action option: track delete as it was, and then new confirmation version.

It seems most of this thread was based on a simple misunderstanding.
.t

Bevosss
07-11-2008, 12:38 AM
That's correct, the new delete confirmation stuffed existing macros, so that was left unchanged and only the delete key shortcut was remapped (which you could easily unmap).

Confused? :)

maa
07-11-2008, 02:18 AM
Confused? :)

Yes very.
Its like shi**** on the carpet and putting a rug over it.



;)

boka
07-11-2008, 06:36 AM
Of course it doesnt prompt if you use a non-context-sensitive track delete... but ok we'll make it optional.

-Justin

Thanks!!!!