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View Full Version : 2.4 x64 test build on LoL..


Justin
07-26-2008, 11:48 PM
...for anybody who has XP x64 or Vista 64-bit and wants to test.

Some interesting notes:

If you install both 32-bit REAPER and 64-bit REAPER you can rearoute between them (or any other 32 or 64 bit ASIO apps)..

Only 64-bit plug-ins are supported (no bitbridge type things at this point).


Umm, that's about it. Things are probably broken-ish. No APE or Elastique1 or DiracLE or ReWire or Spectro yet either.

-Justin

gofer
07-27-2008, 03:08 AM
...you seriously begin considering getting XP64 reading that message. :eek:

Frank

zappadave
07-27-2008, 03:22 AM
Me too.
But I have XP64 ready to load, and the drivers.
Trouble is I'm doing a music technology course on the computer, and am a bit nervous to load it, and lose all my course files.
I suppose from what Justin says, there is no problem having 64 and 32 bit drivers for video card etc.
I have idea about a lot of this stuff. Would need to swat up on it all.

billybk1
07-27-2008, 03:59 AM
Oh, this is quite a surprise! I happen to have a XP32/XP64 dual boot DAW so I will give this a spin later today and let you know how it goes. So is this x64 REAPER build true 64bit throughout?

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Julio
07-27-2008, 05:03 AM
Legendary! I’ll give this a good hammering over the next couple of days, and see what comes up. The idea of rearouting the two together could work amazingly well.

Thank you so much! :D

billybk1
07-27-2008, 05:07 AM
So far, from my preliminary observations the x64 version is looking pretty good overall. I am quite impressed that the x64 version is pretty much on par (feature wise) with the current x32 version. When I check the FX Broswer is REAPER only picking up those plugins that are true 64bit when it does it's plugin scan. I notice a lot of my SONAR plugins (I have SONAR x64 installed) show up but not many other plugins besides those from REAPER.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Julio
07-27-2008, 05:18 AM
Hi again.

One problem Ive noticed is that after installing x64, all of the shortcuts to REAPER now point to REAPER x64 (on the start menu etc), and remain so even after uninstalling x64 (and x86 for that matter). Not a biggie, especially for preliminaries, but it would be nice to have separate x64 and x86 references there from the word go. :)

billybk1
07-27-2008, 05:38 AM
Hi again.

One ‘problem’ I’ve noticed is that after installing x64, all of the shortcuts to REAPER now point to REAPER x64 (on the start menu etc), and remain so even after uninstalling x64 (and x86 for that matter). Not a biggie, especially for preliminaries, but it would be nice to have separate x64 and x86 references there from the word go. :)


Yes, I noticed that too. Everything now references X64 REAPER.
It is like the 32bit version disappeared. With SONAR 7 I have (2) separate entries for the XP64 32bit version and the 64bit. Cakewalk simply differentiates the two by adding the x64. I have (2) separate program icons on the desktop:

SONAR 7 Producer Edition
SONAR 7 Producer Edition(x64)

Any references from the Programs menu use the (x64) as well. It helps to keep things nice & tidy:

SONAR 7 Producer Edition
SONAR 7 Producer Edition(x64)
SONAR 7 Producer Edition Help
SONAR 7 Producer Edition Help(x64)
SONAR 7 Producer Edition uninstall
SONAR 7 Producer Edition uninstall(x64)
etc, etc, etc......


Cheers,

Billy Buck

Julio
07-27-2008, 05:48 AM
Yes indeed, if Reaper could add the (x64) to all the new bits as Billy demonstrated, or something along those lines, that would be glorious: Im all manner of ConfusedMan at the moment (not helped by the fact that my OS was having a bad hair day before I rebooted it).

Now Im off to touch up those ReaRoutes.

Julio
07-27-2008, 06:10 AM
This inter-version caring and sharing seems to spill over into other areas too: my VST plugin folders both update when I make a change, rather than having separate options (such as the time-hono(u)red "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)" division). Life becomes rather tricky as a result.

Will keep you posted on other developments as they unfold.

ngarjuna
07-27-2008, 06:35 AM
I have come to despise my x64 environment (but keep it for general purposes as a dual boot out of laziness more than anything else since it's already built), but I will try to help out with some testing anyway since I technically have drivers for that environment vis-a-vis my interface (hey, they work sometimes). I really don't see myself seriously switching back to x64 for audio (even if Reaper x64 was identical in every way to Reaper x32); too many other issues, many of them hardware/driver related, to make that worthwhile (I'm not a virtual instrument guy, so my RAM load is typically pretty light).

Is there any specific area(s) that you guys want stressed to see what's working and what's still broken-ish?

Julio
07-27-2008, 07:25 AM
The two siblings are bumping heads again: this time it’s driver settings. I haven’t been able to get ReaRoute ASIO working at all (and upon reloading either app after setting up the ‘slave’ for rearoute and quitting when I’m done, it displays an ASIO configuration error message, and I have to re-enable my default hardware ASIO: confirming that this happens on both/either the master and the slave app).

There’s the issue of MIDI inputs too: they seem dependent on each other, and have to be changed individually every time they’re loaded, which leads to conflict error messages if anything is enabled.

In short, they are sharing pretty much everything until they are separated manually again, which makes it impossible to get both of them working together and independently. I guess some more surgery is required to solve the Siamese twin problem.

I’m on Vista x64 SP1 by the way (which has actually been working splendidly for me for ages). Do some or all of these problems occur with XP64?

Totally loving this new chapter of Reaperdom: I’m an ultra-heavy virtual instrument guy myself, so this is fantastic news indeed.

I guess one neat idea, once the proverbial umbilical cord is severed, would be to export all settings from one to the other, including things like Colo(u)rThemes and actions/keyboard shortcuts. I’m mixing my medical metaphors; time for bed!

Dstruct
07-27-2008, 08:02 AM
but not many other plugins besides those from REAPER


as explained:

Only 64-bit plug-ins are supported (no bitbridge type things at this point).


Here two free 64bit plugins from Voxengo:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/sounddelay/
http://www.voxengo.com/product/overtonegeq/



Maybe also someone could test the Surge VSTi Demo from Vember Audio: http://www.vemberaudio.se/surge.php (comes with a 64bit dll) ...

Justin
07-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Updated it to 2.42cs0_x64:

Installs with (x64) appeneded to most shortcuts etc, the default config directory it uses is now Userprofile\application Data\REAPER64 (instead of REAPER\). Also fixed ReaRoute registration..

-Justin

jonyjazy
07-27-2008, 01:02 PM
Rearout not working...

In x32 (rearoute64 dll)

No ins or outs to select

In x64

Doesnt appear in dropdown menu

Also cant register with regsvr32
It says it cant find the dll (but its there)

Julio
07-27-2008, 04:44 PM
Dstruct: Yeah, Aleksey has done a great job with those: they account for approximately 100% of my current VSTx64 arsenal. I’ll give that demo a bash and see what it’s like. Great stuff.

Justin: Thank you so much for the CS0 update: those configuration issues are now out of my hair: ie woes to woohs.

jonyjazy: Did you run regsvr32 from the folder where it’s stored? I’m not sure which system you’re running, but on Vista, I run cmd as an administrator, then navigate to where that new dll lives (in my case Program Files (x86)\REAPER\x64\). It registers fine for me when I do that. Hope that helps.

I’m now trying to get the rearoute between two Reapers working in anger, so to speak. I have a couple of questions in this regard:

1. Do I need to download/regsvr32 that 64bit rearoute.dll from LoL, or is it built in to version 2.42 (x86)? Actually, this whole 32/64bit rearoute thing still has me rather bamboozled, to be honest.
2. I have loaded up x64 and routed a track via Audio Hardware Outputs to ReaRoute 1/2. Then loaded x86, selected ReaRoute ASIO from the drop-down menu, made sure 1/2 is available from the input list below that, set a client track’s input to CLIENT 1/2, armed it for recording and set it to record:input. No audio is getting through. What else do I need to do to get it working, aka what am I doing horribly wrong? :D

All the best,
Julio

Julio
07-27-2008, 05:17 PM
Update on the Surge front: its working nicely, aside from some installation niggles, which highlights a fairly widespread problem. All too often there isnt an option to install the VSTx86 to one folder and the VSTx64 to another, which means some judicious cutting and pasting to keep things tidy. Surge complained about the directory structure and wavetables when I did that, since it stores more than just the dll.

I suppose this is because these plugin developers assume that the users have only one VST folder and use bitbridge or similar to run both batches of plugins in the one application, or that youll filter out the ones that dont work in each case?

This brings me to another thought: is Reaper going to feature some kind of VSTx86 wrapper for x64 (or a virtual 32bit process running along the lines of rearoute clients on demand, something like that)? I know its early days, but am curious as to the direction itll take.

In the meantime, I had another idea regarding session auto-convert, in which a loading project detects plugins that have two versions and assigns the correct 32/64bit one, settings and all, but I seem to be getting rather off-topic. The workaround of saving out the presets, reloading the right plugin and setting it up again is definitely doable, in any case.

Happy times!

Dstruct
07-27-2008, 11:59 PM
Update on the Surge front: its working nicely, aside from some installation niggles, which highlights a fairly widespread problem. All too often there isnt an option to install the VSTx86 to one folder and the VSTx64 to another, which means some judicious cutting and pasting to keep things tidy. Surge complained about the directory structure and wavetables when I did that, since it stores more than just the dll.

I suppose this is because these plugin developers assume that the users have only one VST folder and use bitbridge or similar to run both batches of plugins in the one application, or that youll filter out the ones that dont work in each case?

Thanks for testing Surge!

I've posted a feature request on the Vember Audio forum for you:
http://forum.vemberaudio.se/index.php/topic,1104.0.html

Julio
07-28-2008, 12:05 AM
Hehe awesome, thanks D. I particularly love the demo-mode grungy de-tuning noise that occurs from time to time: if anything it’s an enhancement!

Edit: I also posted an FR for basically the same thing on the VSL forums.

VSTi-va la ReaVolucin!

jonyjazy
07-28-2008, 06:01 AM
Reged!

but all same problems...

in x86 no output or input choices...

in x64 no rearout to choose from dropdown menu

I have an optimized Xpx64, maybe a service is needed to run this that is disabled?

mcshane
07-28-2008, 10:07 AM
And all this time I thought Reaper was 64 bit... Can't wait to install and test! Thanks Justin.

billybk1
07-28-2008, 11:36 AM
And all this time I thought Reaper was 64 bit... Can't wait to install and test! Thanks Justin.

What this means is that there is now a REAPER version that will work natively in XP64 & Vista64. FWIW, there are only a small handful of DAW hosts that have specific native 64bit versions available (SONAR x64 is one) that will work in XP64/Vista64. This is very different than just having a 64bit mix engine which is what the REAPER 32bit version has. This is what you were probably alluding to. Once it is officially released I am sure the REAPER crew will end up calling it REAPER x64 or something similar to differentiate it from the 32bit version.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

mcshane
07-28-2008, 11:58 AM
I think I just assumed that Reaper's 64 bit audio engine would take full advantage of Windows XP x64 OS without there being a need for a native 64 bit version. This is fantastic. Now I can add that additional gig of RAM i've been putting off.

billybk1
07-28-2008, 12:18 PM
Updated it to 2.42cs0_x64:

Installs with (x64) appeneded to most shortcuts etc, the default config directory it uses is now Userprofile\application Data\REAPER64 (instead of REAPER\). Also fixed ReaRoute registration..

-Justin

Yes, this new build installation is much better now. It has been working pretty well so far for me in XP64. No major or even minor mishaps to mention. I copied over all my color themes from the 32bit version folder. I have a few more tweaks to do and it should be nearly setup identically to the 32bit version. I even have my Frontier TranzPort Wireless DAW controller using it's 64bit drivers working in REAPER x64 too. :)

Cheers,

Billy Buck

jonyjazy
07-28-2008, 12:59 PM
just intalled REAPER in a x86 system with rearoute. No dropdown rearoute driver in ASIO. Ive reged the ddl.

Im using Gina Echoaudio with latest drivers.

Julio
07-28-2008, 03:00 PM
just intalled REAPER in a x86 system with rearoute. No dropdown rearoute driver in ASIO. Ive reged the ddl.

Im using Gina Echoaudio with latest drivers.

Hi again JJ. Are you now trying to connect two Reapers on different systems? Im the anti-expert on networking, but dont you need to use ReaMote (or something) for that?

ReaRoute-wise, I only get the drop-down option on the second Reaper I run. In any case, I still havent had any success getting the two to transmit data, after trying x86->x64 (using either ReaRoute ASIO driver) and x64->x86.

Hoping someone can set us straight,
Julio :)

Julio
07-28-2008, 03:08 PM
What this means is that there is now a REAPER version that will work natively in XP64 & Vista64. FWIW, there are only a small handful of DAW hosts that have specific native 64bit versions available (SONAR x64 is one) that will work in XP64/Vista64. This is very different than just having a 64bit mix engine which is what the REAPER 32bit version has. This is what you were probably alluding to. Once it is officially released I am sure the REAPER crew will end up calling it REAPER x64 or something similar to differentiate it from the 32bit version.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

That’s great news, Billy! :D

My x64 VSTi libraries are really flying on this new rig, without the pesky memory limits of the 20th century.

Just wondering, have you managed to get your two Reapers ReaRouting successfully at all? That would be really neat to get up and running until a working ‘bitbridge’ solution is available.

Thanks,
Julio

mcshane
07-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Just installed x64. Can't get reaper to recognize the Delta1010LT asio driver (it's a beta). Any ideas?

stringycheesey
07-28-2008, 06:14 PM
Just installed x64. Can't get reaper to recognize the Delta1010LT asio driver (it's a beta). Any ideas?

That's M-Audio's fault. They don't expose a 64-bit ASIO in their 64-bit driver!

stringycheesey
07-28-2008, 06:27 PM
64-bit Rapture.dll (Cakewalk) starts to work, but crashes after about 10 to 60 seconds of playing. The standalone 64-bit Rapture also does the same thing, so I'm guessing it's Rapture's fault.

stringycheesey
07-28-2008, 08:32 PM
iZotope Ozone and Vinyl 64-bit VSTs work great :-)

Julio
07-28-2008, 08:33 PM
Reaper x64 is working well with all my EastWest Play libraries, and VSLs Vienna Instruments/Vienna Ensemble. I can load up a ridiculous number of these puppies now in-session.

I downloaded the four Voxengo plugins that currently have x64 versions (Crunchessor [demo], Overtone GEQ, Sound Delay, VariSaturator [demo]) and they are all fine too.

jonyjazy
07-29-2008, 05:07 AM
I have 2 partitions, one with a x64 xp the other with a x86 xp.

The rearoute thing doesnt work on both... (see my posts)

Christophe
07-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Is there anyone with a 32-64 Windows dual boot who could do a simple benchmark using normal REAPER and REAPER x64?

I think we could get some interesting results since the x64 compiler automatically enables SSE optimizations and such on the x64 builds...

stringycheesey
07-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Is there anyone with a 32-64 Windows dual boot who could do a simple benchmark using normal REAPER and REAPER x64?

I think we could get some interesting results since the x64 compiler automatically enables SSE optimizations and such on the x64 builds...

Sure, I have the xp 32 sp3 and the xp 64 sp2

Julio
07-29-2008, 10:03 PM
It’s probably not Reaper’s fault at all, but I noticed that in one session (containing 1300MB of VSL instruments so far) I tried to add an EastWest Play instance, and the interface wouldn’t display. This bug is quite well-known (and largely cosmetic), and the EastWest team is apparently working on it, but refreshing the window didn’t make any difference in this case and nothing could be clicked on either, making it completely unusable.

For comparison, I created a new session and loaded up 20 tracks of various VSL and EW plugins (to about 3.5GB worth before I ran out of steam/ideas), and they all work consistently well. Everything initialises on reload too, and allows me to add any other instruments I like.

This other (first) session though keeps having the same problem every time I try to add some Play action, which got me thinking it could be a corrupt session file or similar.

I tried disabling undo/redo saving and so on, in case there was something nasty hidden in there spanner-wise. Are there any project load/save settings that could/would have most likely caused this, or any other ideas, possibly pertaining to specifics of the new x64 platform?

Thanks, Julio

PS Sorry Christophe, I’m on a single-boot system now, but I’ll keep chipping away at other aspects.

billybk1
07-30-2008, 08:08 PM
Is there anyone with a 32-64 Windows dual boot who could do a simple benchmark using normal REAPER and REAPER x64?

I think we could get some interesting results since the x64 compiler automatically enables SSE optimizations and such on the x64 builds...

Hey Christophe, I did a little comparison testing on my dual boot DAW. The low latency results were kinda interesting in a postive way for REAPER x64. ;)

DAW specs:

-WinXP Pro SP3(3244)/XP64 SP2 (dual boot)
-Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 (stock-no overclock)
-ASUS P5B-E (BIOS 1704)
-1333 MHz frontside system bus
-2GB RAM (Corsair 6400 DDR2 1024x2)
-Graphics: Sapphire x550 (PCIe) Fanless design (256DDR)
-Toneport UX2 USB Gearbox v3.60 (Win32) v3.64 (x64)

*I had to use my USB audio device as it was my only audio device
that had both Win32/Win64 ASIO drivers. The lowest available ASIO sample buffer is 128.

DAW Software: REAPER 2.43 / REAPER x64 2.43 (beta)
Both had Anticipative FX enabled/Syncronous FX disabled and were otherwise setup identical, as close as I could tell. I even used the same REAPER theme. :)

Test project: siderite (from the REAPER sample projects)
16/48_32 tracks_27 native REAPER FX


Criteria: I used the same project in both WinXP(32bit) & XP64.
I made note of the highest CPU usage at (3) sample buffer settings as the project played through. I played each project three times for each buffer setting and took the average of the three readings.

_________________REAPER 32bit____________REAPER x64
Sample Buffer------CPU %--------------------CPU %
512------------25% (uneven core scaling)--25% (even core scaling)
256------------25% (uneven core scaling)--29% (even core scaling
128------------31% (uneven core scaling)--20% (even core scaling)


Conclusion: Could be more to do with the audio drivers provided by Line 6, but within the contraints of this particular performance test REAPER x64 performed much better @ the lowest latency (128) than REAPER 32bit. 11% less native CPU usage and the CPU scaling on my e8400 Core 2 Duo was nearly identical (20% on each CPU). While the REAPER 32bit had 31% native CPU usage with one CPU @ around 39% and the other @ 23%.


Cheers,

Billy Buck

Christophe
07-31-2008, 02:33 PM
Billy, those are great test results! Thanks :)

Dstruct
07-31-2008, 02:40 PM
less cpu at 128 samples buffer than 256 and 512 samples buffer?

billybk1
07-31-2008, 03:14 PM
less cpu at 128 samples buffer than 256 and 512 samples buffer?

Yes, I thought it was weird too. I even re-booted my DAW and did
a retest and had the exact same results! Maybe those x64 SSE optimizations
really kick in at lower latencies.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

zeke
07-31-2008, 04:59 PM
Have you tested rendering speed?

billybk1
07-31-2008, 05:04 PM
Whatever x64 optimizations were done sure made a difference in the low latency/CPU test performance using my DAW. I just did another round of the same tests on a freshly booted DAW with the same end results (see the pics below). I do have both REAPER & REAPER x64 set @ the Default Thread Priority Behavior (4-Default). The reason I say this is when I change the Bevavior to Automatic (experimental) in x64 the CPU usage rises and closely mimics the 32bit REAPER behavior. Bring it back down to the (4-Default) and the CPU usage drops back down to where it was before (around 18%-20%). Also notice the much better CPU scaling with x64 (pretty even). XP32 had uneven CPU scaling across all tested latencies.
Whatever magic mojo the REAPER brew crew have going on with the Default Thread Priority Behavior in REAPER x64 lets hope they never have to change it! :D


REAPERx64 @ 512 buffer

http://stash.reaper.fm/1619/XP64_512.jpg



REAPERx64 @ 128 buffer

http://stash.reaper.fm/1618/XP64_128.jpg



REAPER (32bit) @ 128 buffer

http://stash.reaper.fm/1617/XP32_128.jpg

Dstruct
07-31-2008, 11:57 PM
cool thing :)

billybk1
08-01-2008, 07:16 AM
One thing I noticed, unlike the 32bit version, whenever you access the Preferences the audio engine shuts off. Just simply opening the main Preferences page cuts out the audio/playback.
In the Win32 version you can open the Preferences and make any parameter changes/adjustments on the fly during playback (except of course any direct audio driver adjustments).

Billy Buck

Julio
08-05-2008, 03:03 AM
Those are some very interesting results there, Billy. :)

As for the problem youre experiencing, I dont think that happens to me: the behaviour seems pretty much the same(?)

I am very impressed to see Reaper loading up many of my x86 sessions quite happily, and even automatically switching to the x64 VSTi equivalents where available. This is fantastic!

labyrinth
08-05-2008, 08:01 AM
Does the X64 version have any sort of Bit Bridge for non-64 bit written plugs or are these going to have to be scrapped and/or updated.

Dstruct
08-05-2008, 12:44 PM
Does the X64 version have any sort of Bit Bridge for non-64 bit written plugs or are these going to have to be scrapped and/or updated.

is this not answered in the initial post?

Julio
08-05-2008, 01:59 PM
Only 64-bit plug-ins are supported (no bitbridge type things at this point).

Aye, indeed it be.
I do like at this point though: ;) could be some massively exciting times ahead if some form of bitbridge/CockosSPANiel technology becomes integrated.

labyrinth
08-06-2008, 05:09 AM
Thanks guys...maybe I just have went back to the OP. Sorry about that.

billybk1
08-23-2008, 02:36 PM
One thing I noticed, unlike the 32bit version, whenever you access the Preferences the audio engine shuts off. Just simply opening the main Preferences page cuts out the audio/playback.
In the Win32 version you can open the Preferences and make any parameter changes/adjustments on the fly during playback (except of course any direct audio driver adjustments).



Fixed in latest v2.45rc1 x64 build. ;)

Cheers,

Billy Buck

GP_Hawk
09-05-2008, 03:09 PM
billybk1, I can't seem to get uad plugins to show in reaperx64...I've got the latest 5.0 also. Any ideas why?

Thanks :)

Jae.Thomas
09-05-2008, 03:17 PM
billybk1, I can't seem to get uad plugins to show in reaperx64...I've got the latest 5.0 also. Any ideas why?

Thanks :)

are they 64 bit plugins?

only 64 bit plugins will load in reaperx64 for now.

billybk1
09-05-2008, 04:08 PM
are they 64 bit plugins?

only 64 bit plugins will load in reaperx64 for now.

The UAD cards have 64bit drivers, but the plugins are 32bit coded.
So you need to use a "Bitbridge" wrapper like SONAR uses in order to utilize
the plugins in a 64bit environment.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

GP_Hawk
09-05-2008, 04:10 PM
Hi Jason,

Yes, they are 64 bit as of version 4.5 I believe. This is my first venture into reaper so I have never tried it out before this.

GP_Hawk
09-05-2008, 04:11 PM
Ah ha...thanks billybk1. Going to get with it later tonight when I got some time...looking forward to running some tests.