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View Full Version : REAPER vs Sonar


Justin
10-10-2006, 12:31 AM
From EQ magazine November issue (free copy I got at AES):

http://www.1014.org/shiz/reaper_vs_sonar.jpg

Dare I ponder how easy/fast doing this in REAPER would be? :)

Hint: 1. make loop selection 2. right click "remove contents selection (moving later items)

mmmmmmmmmmm

kLyon
10-10-2006, 12:46 AM
Sonar is a study in How to Make Things Unnecessarily Complicated and Clumsy. This is a comparison of the worst of the breed to the best.
Deservedly so; keep up the good work.

Jed
10-10-2006, 01:25 AM
The person who wrote that article isn't doing Sonar justice


In Sonar

1)In a track you want to ripple delete, pres alt and left click drag to select section to delete

2) Press alt x (cut). check 'delete hole' in the dialog that opos up, and press enter - done


In Reaper

1) In a track you want to ripple delete, press shift-cntrl-right click and drag to select section of an item to delete

2) Click on ripple editing icon to enable ripple editing (or press alt P)

3) right click and select 'cut selected area of selected items' (or press Cntrl-delete) Done


Takes about the same amount of time for me

Mentioned solely in the interest of balance as I use both


Cheers
Jed

dln
10-10-2006, 01:28 AM
In all fairness though, it seems like mr anderton is on crack on this one. At least for SONAR 6.

A ripple edit over multiple tracks goes something like this (if memory serves):

* Ctrl-a (selecting all tracks)
* Select range in timeline
* Ctrl-x
* Check 'Delete hole'
* Press Enter

Apparently 'Delete hole' is cakespeak for ripple. Why? Only Don Johnson knows, and he's not telling.

But that whole splitting business he's going on about there seems unnecessary to me, even in the sea of toolbars that is sonar.

Oh well, REAPER is alot slicker anyway (except for editing midi maybe), so who cares? :)

dln
10-10-2006, 01:32 AM
The person who wrote that article isn't doing Sonar justice...

Damn you and your simulposting self! Clearly your wit and typing exceeds the air speed of an unladen swallow. :)

Justin
10-10-2006, 01:40 AM
Haha, that will teach me not to read magazines...

Jed
10-10-2006, 01:52 AM
LOL

How was AES Justin?

Cheers
Jed

yep
10-10-2006, 06:53 AM
Sonar is a study in How to Make Things Unnecessarily Complicated and Clumsy. This is a comparison of the worst of the breed to the best.
Deservedly so; keep up the good work.

Craig Anderton is a study in How to Make Things Unnecessarily Complicated and Clumsy. In any "tips and tricks" column or book I've seen by him, he seems to be writing as though it were a test. Like, not to help out the reader, but to make sure that he proves he read the whole chapter. He's a very nice guy and all, though.

politcat
10-10-2006, 08:24 AM
Craig Anderton is a study in How to Make Things Unnecessarily Complicated and Clumsy. In any "tips and tricks" column or book I've seen by him, he seems to be writing as though it were a test.

he gets paid by the word. how much is jed's explanation worth?! lol

kLyon
10-10-2006, 09:30 AM
In fairness to my late-night comment, there are numerous situations in Sonar that require dialog boxes, choices, etc. that I think should be unnecessary. Copy and paste, for example. Render is an action fraught with choices that occasionally seem to lead to silence. Paths are seldom remembered. But these things are, of course, subjective and personal to a certain extent.
For me? I own it and use it for some things -- OMF import, V-vocal, lame-but-functional score printing -- but anytime I've done a project in it it's been like a trip to the dentist for a root canal.

Spon
10-10-2006, 10:19 AM
Apparently 'Delete hole' is cakespeak for ripple. Why? Only Don Johnson knows, and he's not telling.

Gregg Hendershott was probably responsible. They've had this command since Cakewalk 1.0 for DOS, and I don't think they were thinking about video DAWs at the time.

Ripple editing means this (http://stashbox.org/1218/old+ripple+edit.png)for some video editors (from Videomaker.com article (http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article.cfm?id=7188). For others it means this (video edit modes) (http://stashbox.org/1217/ripple+and+other+edits.png) from Adobe's Digital Video primer (www.adobe.com/motion/events/pdfs/dvprimer.pdf)

Except now it means something different again, referring to the effect a ripple edit in the second meaning has on the associated music and dialog, extrapolated to an audio-only environment.

I just can't imagine cutting four bars out of a song, whether audio, MIDI, or both, without deciding individually, track by track, where to cut, fade, and splice audio so as to preserve reverb and ambience, not to mention actual phrasing. Likewise with MIDI - unless it's a robot sequence, I'm likely to adjust the phrasing into and out of any part that is deleted, rather than just clip it and leave it. Of course, I don't have to do this stuff for a corporation at hourly rates either.

What I'd LIKE to see is something like "ripple all" mode, but you could draw the beginning edge track-by-track, so as to place transitions nicely, and then delete 8 bars from every track. I don't think anyone does this yet - it would be kind of like freehand marquee selection, except it would keep the selection the correct length.

In fairness to my late-night comment, there are numerous situations in Sonar that require dialog boxes, choices, etc. that I think should be unnecessary.

This has also been the case since Cakewalk 1.0. Back then, the division was between "you can do this but it's hard" and "you can't do this, but we don't think you need to". There weren't any other options. And it remains the case that if you HAVE to get THIS midi data into a file EXACTLY so, that Cakewalk/Sonar WILL get it there, probably with some tool faster than an event list, even while you view the event list to be sure everything is exact. It also remains the case that some dialogs in that Sonar tutorial look almost exactly like Cakewalk 3.0.

But, you know, if you're trying to compose a thirty-bar rubato melody for Kong's ChineeWinds (http://www.chineekong.com/chineewinds.htm), REAPER isn't exactly the funnest thing either.

Art Evans
10-10-2006, 05:46 PM
I think it was probably Reaper's flexible ripple editing that initially won me over to the app (though perhaps it wasn't quite there when I came on board?) - anyway, for live multitrack concert work it is sooooo handy. Or for single track speech editing, for that matter.

malcolmj
10-10-2006, 05:55 PM
I was surprised to find out today that Microsoft are sponsoring the "Fast Forward Sonar 6" Tour

http://www.cakewalk.com/Events/FFSonar6Tour.asp

to jointly promote Sonar and Vista. That's one heck of a marketing push.