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FredPJ
04-24-2010, 05:50 PM
Gentlemen, I need a little help...

Here's the thing, if I normalize all the items to a common gain like this:
http://img685.**************/img685/8503/74748283.jpg

Every track is normalized so they never clip, however, the mixed output obviously still clips:
http://img696.**************/img696/9199/78635124.jpg

So my question is, is it possible to normalize the items to a common gain that doesn't make the master output mix clip? Please note that I don't want to modify the source files in any way. Thanks!

Lawrence
04-24-2010, 06:39 PM
One thing (a channel peak) has nothing to do with the other (the combined peak level of multiple combined signals) 2+2=4 ...

Pull your channel faders down... or pull the master fader down, same thing.

PAPT
04-24-2010, 08:34 PM
Why are you normalizing in the first place?

Unless the individual files are too low in volume and there isn't enough gain on the track faders there is little to no reason to normalize.

FredPJ
04-25-2010, 04:05 AM
One thing (a channel peak) has nothing to do with the other (the combined peak level of multiple combined signals) 2+2=4 ...

Pull your channel faders down... or pull the master fader down, same thing.
That's what I do but it's hard to adjust the tracks to a level that doesn't make the combined level peak but also doesn't make it too quiet, I have to listen to the entire song a few times until I get it right, it's a very tedious process.

Why are you normalizing in the first place?

Unless the individual files are too low in volume and there isn't enough gain on the track faders there is little to no reason to normalize.
The individual files are too high, as I said above, I want to turn down the levels of the items to a common level so that the combined level doesn't clip but also isn't too quiet.


Thank you for your answers. Any more ideas?

EricM
04-25-2010, 04:17 AM
So my question is, is it possible to normalize the items to a common gain that doesn't make the master output mix peak? Please note that I don't want to modify the source files in any way. Thanks!

1/ normalizing modifies the source, unless it's already normalized.
2/ normalizing to common gain means it finds the highest peak of all
selected items, and applies the same volume adjustment to all items
so that peak is set to 0 dBFS (not clipping).
3/ use faders to adjust volume of each track individually
4/ lower the master track volume fader so the output doesn't clip,
or put a JS/volume insert to lower the volume, and another limiter
after it to prevent the peaks from clipping.
5/ use compression on master track before limiting to reduce dynamics
and increase perceived loudness

FredPJ
04-25-2010, 04:56 AM
1/ normalizing modifies the source, unless it's already normalized.
Well, normalizing in Reaper only adjusts the items volume, so it doesn't modify the source files.


2/ normalizing to common gain means it finds the highest peak of all
selected items, and applies the same volume adjustment to all items
so that peak is set to 0 dBFS (not clipping).
Yes, I know that, but what I needed was a way to normalize every item to common gain, finding the highest peak of the combined master output.


3/ use faders to adjust volume of each track individually
That's what I already do, but I spend ages finding the highest peak without clipping, that's why I'm asking if there's an automatic way to do that?


4/ lower the master track volume fader so the output doesn't clip,
or put a JS/volume insert to lower the volume, and another limiter
after it to prevent the peaks from clipping.
5/ use compression on master track before limiting to reduce dynamics
and increase perceived loudness
The tracks are already pre-mixed (although individually), I don't want to apply any compression or limiting, I don't want to alter the sound of the mix in any way.

EricM
04-25-2010, 05:02 AM
Ok I see, you basically want to combine the tracks and normalize
the output. Well than simply lower the master volume so it doesn't
clip, render out the file to 24 or 32 bit wav, import it back
to Reaper and normalize that file. :)

Normalizing to common gain is not a function you need. Also this
cannot be done live, the whole recording needs to be analyzed to
apply normalization.

Well, normalizing in Reaper only adjusts the items volume, so it doesn't modify the source files.

Indeed, I meant in the mix, which is what you are doing. Everything
reaper does is non-destructive to source unless you specifically tell it to.

Kainz
04-25-2010, 05:02 AM
Set the tracks as you like, play the song from start to end and look from master fader how much above you went. Then reduce master fader accordingly so that you're around -0.2db at the highest peak. That would work in your case, wouldn't it?

Allthough I'd propably use a combination of above and a limiter to achieve what you want. If it isn't "loud enough" then no matter what you do to the faders you can't get it loud enough without using additional compression and/or (peak) limiting (on invidual tracks and/or at master).