Setting up guitars.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

ok, i work at a music store (some of the time) and we have several low-end guitars here (pretty nice however) and i notice they arent exactly set up that great. Now, i have my guitar at home set up just the way i want it... i did the intonation, adjusted the truss rod after i moved up north here, ive done some things to it. But im wondering about Seriously trying to set up the guitars here. Are there certain tools I need? Are there manuals or tutorials online somewhere so i KNOW im doing it right and not screwing stuff up? Any advice?

This is something i would REALLY REALLY like to know.

thank you for your help and sorry if ive been vague.
:)


(of course right now i put "how to set up a guitar" in google search box, but if anyone has anything specific they found useful...)

:D

[happymonkey]

Ahhh.... guitar maintenance.....

I could write a book on this but until I get to it, here's a very good book that I own and find invaluable. It was a huge help back when I was building my own guitars and basses:

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide-Electrics/dp/0879302917/ref=sr_1_42/104-8443963-9484745?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176472298&sr=8-42

I have the first edition of it and am curious what they've added since then. Not only does this book go into great detail on proper setup and repair of guitars and basses, but it also has comments and advice from a few top luthiers and has a section on the setups of several famous guitarists which is always interesting. No light gauge strings in the bunch. No low action either....

These may also be of interest:

http://www.carvin.com/manuals/Guitar_Care.pdf

http://www.carvin.com/manuals/Bass_Care.pdf

Finally, an excellent source of both info and tools is Stewart MacDonald:

http://www.stew-mac.com/


If you have a specific setup question, let me know and I'll try to help you out :)

hm

[Jason Brian Merrill]

here is the first among many....

i pretty much sort of maybe kinda definitely understand this... but i need some clarification on these paragraphs on changing strings...

maybe a dumbed down explanation to make sure im doing it right?



Starting at the low E string, I pass the end of the string through the hole in the tuner post. Experience will eventually teach you how much needs to go through. Allow enough to ensure about three or four winds on the wound strings and about five or six on the plain strings. About two to three inches is about right. The wound strings tend to bind together better where they go round the tuner post so they need fewer winds.


Make a sharp bend in the string where it exits the hole and, ensuring that the string is going round the post in the right direction (hands up who's managed to get it going round the wrong way at some time or another!), make one turn of the string pass above the hole. Then, on subsequent turns, make sure the winds go below the hole, with the winds going successively towards the bottom of the tuner post. This will make the strings "break" over the nut at the sharpest angle. On some guitars with standard nuts and trem units, too steep an angle can cause binding of the strings in the nut slots. In this case, don't have the winds too close to the bottom of the tuner post. This may indicate that the nut needs some attention; the slot widening or lubricating, but that'll have to wait for a future article in this series.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

another question...

can i set up a guitar without putting new strings on?

[happymonkey]

I was expecting the other type of setup questions like about truss rod adjustment, nut filing, leveling frets, pickup height, etc...

The article you posted makes sense to me - it's just a bit wordy.

I've been changing strings for so long I really don't know how to explain it any better unless we were in the same room and I could just show you. But, you said you set up your own guitars so I'm assuming that you already know how to change strings. Which makes me wonder why you need clarification on the article. I'm confused. If you can change strings and they stay in tune (don't slip) then move on.

I've attached a couple of pictures I found online of what it should look like if you're doing it right. let me know if it helps.

hm

[happymonkey]

another question...

can i set up a guitar without putting new strings on?

Sure. If the guitars are new you shouldn't have to. You will need to loosen them up to adjust the truss rod. don't EVER touch that truss rod nut with the strings under tension. Best way I know of to destroy a neck.

hm

[Alistair S]

I'm sure that you are familiar with this site, but in case not, try http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html .. there are some good bits on setup if you scroll down.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

I was expecting the other type of setup questions like about truss rod adjustment, nut filing, leveling frets, pickup height, etc...

The article you posted makes sense to me - it's just a bit wordy.

I've been changing strings for so long I really don't know how to explain it any better unless we were in the same room and I could just show you. But, you said you set up your own guitars so I'm assuming that you already know how to change strings. Which makes me wonder why you need clarification on the article. I'm confused. If you can change strings and they stay in tune (don't slip) then move on.

I've attached a couple of pictures I found online of what it should look like if you're doing it right. let me know if it helps.

hm


yeah i dont have a problem with slipping strings, but you know, doing it for someone else is alot different than doing it for yourself, and i want to make EXTRA sure :)

but thanks, that makes it pretty obvious to me now. im pretty sure i had it right all along. But ill have to compare when i try and set up this les paul copy im working on :)

[Jason Brian Merrill]

I'm sure that you are familiar with this site, but in case not, try http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html .. there are some good bits on setup if you scroll down.

thank you!

I was wondering about the validity of this quote from the aforementioned page:

3) Be aware of the advantages and benefits of the various sorts of "action". A very low action means that bending is slightly more difficult and the sound has less body. On the other hand, the strings are much easier to fret. With a high action, the reverse is true. I know that there are a lot of SRV fans out there, and he played with very high action, which explodes the myth that a low action is always the one to shoot for.

[sinbad]

try looking at this
http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

the rest of the fenders are in there as well. If you're looking at acoustics check out Don E. Teeter's "The Acoustic Guitar - Adjustment, Care, Maintenance, and Repair".

Your customers will thank you for it if you set them up properly.
You can also make a cheap guitar sound better with the right strings. Try coated srings, if you can get them bulk they don't cost so much, and they will make a cheap acoustic sound better. The added advantage is that the strings don't corrode as quick as non coated, and with so many grubby fingers trying out the guitars it's a point to keep in mind.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

try looking at this
http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

the rest of the fenders are in there as well. If you're looking at acoustics check out Don E. Teeter's "The Acoustic Guitar - Adjustment, Care, Maintenance, and Repair".

Your customers will thank you for it if you set them up properly.
You can also make a cheap guitar sound better with the right strings. Try coated srings, if you can get them bulk they don't cost so much, and they will make a cheap acoustic sound better. The added advantage is that the strings don't corrode as quick as non coated, and with so many grubby fingers trying out the guitars it's a point to keep in mind.

great point, ill bring it up to the store owner.

[Billoon]

I dont think a low action makes string bending harder...opposite actually, the lower it is, the easier to bend.

But i do think hes right about a higher action giving better tone....the trade off being, its a bit harder to play.

RE: SRV...ive heard that he played with really heavy srtings and high action, so much so that hed shred his fingertips pretty regularly on gigs, making them bleed.

Apparently his quick fix was to superglue his fingertips to his right forearm and when it dried, rip them off with a few layers of skin...instant callous's, keep on playin'!! Now thats dedication. :)

My 0.02c.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

I dont think a low action makes string bending harder...opposite actually, the lower it is, the easier to bend.

But i do think hes right about a higher action giving better tone....the trade off being, its a bit harder to play.

RE: SRV...ive heard that he played with really heavy srtings and high action, so much so that hed shred his fingertips pretty regularly on gigs, making them bleed.

Apparently his quick fix was to superglue his fingertips to his right forearm and when it dried, rip them off with a few layers of skin...instant callous's, keep on playin'!! Now thats dedication. :)

My 0.02c.

thats just sick.

[Billoon]

thats just sick.


Yeah, but he had tone for days...check out his version of "Little Wing".

[happymonkey]

interestng about the strings - I typically use the lightest flat wounds for electric, not just for the sound but also because they feel nicer to play.

OK, I'm really curious now. What style of music do you play? I've never known anybody who used flatwound strings on a guitar. My experience with them on bass is that the tone will be a lot more dull / dead sounding than normal roundwound strings. While this is perfect if you're looking for the old Motown bass tone, I'm not sure where this fits in on a guitar. I think that Sustainer would be really happy to see a normal set of nickel strings of any gauge on there.

For bass, I used to use Rotosound strings which are notorious for chewing up both fingers and frets. Sure, I got really tough fingertips but I also got a really great tone.

As far as guitar strings go, I've always used 10-46's which is a decent balance between having a thick rhythm tone and smooth bending. Lower gauges (like 8's and 9's) sound too thin to my ears.

I found this online about the SRV setup:

http://www.djnoble.demon.co.uk/ints/STEVIER.VS.html

From that page:

Vaughan's main guitar was a battered `59 Strat which he had refitted with a `61 rosewood neck and referred to as `Number One'. The body has the initials `SRV' on the lower part of the scratchplate and is fitted with a left-handed vibrato system (Jimi Hendrix and Otis Rush also used `upside-down' vibrato systems). To help get his h-u-g-e tone Stevie tuned down a semitone (to Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb) and experimented with different string gauges, generally using heavy gauge GHS strings - 0.013, 0.015, 0.019 (unwound), 0.028, 0.038, 0.058. If his fingers weren't holding up he'd compromise with a 0.012 to 0.058 set although at one point Stevie even strung his guitar with 0.018 to 0.074 (`it was insane,' he recalled, `but I played a lot more simply'). Stevie had the neck on Number One fitted with bass frets - naturally rather wider than the originals. This guitar can be seen in the `Live At The El Mocambo' video and design of the Fender Stevie Ray Vaughan signature model was based on this guitar. Stevie had his Strats fitted with 5-way pickup selectors and used all 5 positions.


hm

[happymonkey]

Apparently his quick fix was to superglue his fingertips to his right forearm and when it dried, rip them off with a few layers of skin...instant callous's, keep on playin'!!

That's a bit much - but the superglue thing is very common though. When I was starting out I used to put a thin layer of it on my fingertips and let it dry. After a couple of months I didn't need it anymore.

hm

[Alistair S]

That's a bit much - but the superglue thing is very common though. When I was starting out I used to put a thin layer of it on my fingertips and let it dry. After a couple of months I didn't need it anymore.

hm

Yes, superglue is fairly common (also great for broken nails) - cyanoacrylates are used, after all, to seal wounds (though these days a special version is used which is less of an irritant) so there is no reason why not :).

[gb156]

Here are a couple of places that I have found useful information:

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/tutorial1.htm

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

[rotylee]

Ralph Denyer's Guitar Handbook is an all around all about guitars.

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Handbook-Essential-Encyclopedia-Player/dp/033032750X/ref=sr_1_2/102-1488689-3151320?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176501422&sr=1-2

[homebrew]

This book is supposed to be good too. It's also by Erlewine, like the one HappyMonkey mentioned (I have that one and it's very good). This one has some punch out gauges that you might find helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Electric-Guitar-Great-Player/dp/0879306017/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/002-0926138-1186429?ie=UTF8&qid=1176472298&sr=8-42

[homebrew]

This book is supposed to be good too. It's also by Erlewine, like the one HappyMonkey mentioned (I have that one and it's very good). This one has some punch out tool that you might find helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Electric-Guitar-Great-Player/dp/0879306017/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/002-0926138-1186429?ie=UTF8&qid=1176472298&sr=8-42

Oh, and tools... I would get a good metal ruler that goes down to /32" and a set of feeler gauges for measuring string height.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

I just found a huge box of stew-mac tools in basement!!!!

its got EVERYTHING!!!

(not that i know how to use it)

[pw3]

Jason -
Subscribe to Stew-Mac's 'Trade Secrets' emails- lots of cool stuff there.

I personally like my guitars set up a bit 'stiff' - 12's on my acoustics, 10's or 11's on my electrics, set a bit higher than other people are comfortable with - but I have a heavy right hand, and need to keep the strings from bellying out.
On my mandolins & octave mandolin: the heaviest strings I can find, that's where the best tone is - then tweak for playability.

Bottom line is there's no single setup 'formula' that works for everyone - in a music store, the idea should be (I think) to get the setup out of the way, so that whoever picks up a guitar, whatever their proficiency or preference, they can feel how the neck fits their hand, get a good idea of the instrument's voice...

Tweaking a setup is cheap, compared to reshaping & refinishing a neck.

My $.02