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06-18-2009 01:33 PM | |||
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could be as a secondary knob called "Input Pan" and the current one could be renamed to "Output Pan"...
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06-18-2009 03:38 PM | ||
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Mind if I also inject this long discussion on enhanced panning controls?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=17715 That should solve cover all cases (except surround). |
06-26-2009 07:44 AM | ||
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Thanks for the mockup Labyrinth. I personally do not like the idea of 2 knobs. I think the Cubase paradigm is perfect. You keep the simple and familiar pan control and switch the UI on demand. And the alternate panning UIs look nearly as simple.
The current Reaper pan fader can be cut in half (graphically), either vertically, or horizontally to simulate the extra panning modes (mockup coming up) |
06-26-2009 08:05 AM | ||
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Here it is. Crude, the current UI bitmaps are not ideal but it can be done with some knob UI modifications from the devs/designers.
url:https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/177351/...pan-mockup.jpg |
06-27-2009 08:00 AM | |||
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It seems to me that for stereo panning to be complete, the gui would have to allow changing the level of left/right as well as pan each of them.
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06-27-2009 08:11 AM | |||
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06-27-2009 12:16 PM | |||
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in other daw thought of that a long time ago. and their soloution is like that: the pan knob, means, how mush volume each chanel(speaker) will get there is a stereo knob, that combine/seperate between left/right, and there is also a stereo swap button, that replace between left/right channels. all these three knobs (+ the volume fader) do the perfect panning and volume. so actually there are 4 knobs/faders to do the job, volume fader, pan, stereo combiner, stereo swapper. so..., i think your sugguestion, with the lock button as above, may be better, and more easy/friendly. |
06-28-2009 05:57 AM | |||
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However, if the channel strip does get a new stereo panner, I do think it should be complete :) |
06-30-2009 09:14 AM | |||
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Probably we could right-click on the pan and menu pops up for pan law and a new option to "Split Pan" (Following Evan's mockup)
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06-30-2009 09:16 AM | ||
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06-30-2009 11:59 AM | |||
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06-30-2009 05:36 PM | |||
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the simplest way to fix this is the way acid did it a long time ago. you just right click on the pan slider to choose the type of panning.
no extra graphical design needed. no extra buttons. i believe that solves the problem, or am i missing something? http://i40.tinypic.com/3149pg6.jpg come to think of it, why do we even need stereo tracks per se? its really two streams. its really an outdated, (albeit convenient for the current paradigm) idea. why cant the master buss just be stereo or 5.1 or 8.1 (etc) and have the option to explode or merge tracks into convenient groups of any arbitrary number that suits the encoding format in fashion whatever week it is... i think reaper is going to blow all previous paradigms away. |
06-30-2009 06:00 PM | |||
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Karbo |
07-01-2009 02:03 AM | |||
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How about something like this then. Will show the current panning, and you won't need the rightclick menu for changing panning:
[IMG]http://img188.**************/img188/4474/stereopan.th.jpg[/IMG] |
07-01-2009 02:51 AM | |||
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while we are at it, there should be a selector to choose the number of channels the master buss should have. |
07-01-2009 02:58 AM | |||
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07-01-2009 06:25 AM | |||
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If you look closer at the image (not very clear), there are 3 controls. 2 for the width and 1 for the pan.
The reason for posting is that there is a request for changing the panner, and if so I'd like to have easy access to pan and level of each mono component. On the other hand it's not something I use very much, so not biggie either way. I can very well send each side to a track, or use a stereo width plugin. BTW: what other ways are there of panning a stereo signal? I only know of either changing the level or panning each mono component. |
07-01-2009 08:06 AM | |||
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"ADD Channels pan type makes the stereo image appear to move as a unit between the speakers, and hard panning causes both channels to be fed at full intensity into a single channel. Linear Panning Curve (algorithm)
Balance Pan type is for adjusting the relative signal levels of the right and left channels in stereo source material. moving from the center to a side, the opposite side starts at a base db level (either 0db or -6db) and decays to no signal level. the signal in the side you are panning towards starts at the base db level (either 0db 3-db or -6db) and increases to 0db. when the stereo source is panned fully to one side, that side plays at 0db while the other side provides no signal at all. this also uses a linear panning curve. The Constant Power type pan is for panning mono source material. as you move the fader from side to side, this pan type creates the illusion of the source moving around the listener from one side to another, in a semi circle. it uses the constant-power panning curve. the Film Pan Type allows you to pan between pairs of adjacent speakers using a const. power model. this mode is optimized for theater style speaker placement. In stereo projects, Film Mode functions identically to Constant Power, as you drag the pan point to the center speaker, the sound becomes diffused through the front and rear speakers. when the track is panned fully to the center speaker, there is no output from the front and rear spakers. dragging the pan point to the center of the surround panner sends the signal to all speakers. You can choose the default pan type for new tracks you create." From the sony acid 6a manual. I am sure there are some DSP coders out there who can see how this is useful if not necessary. there are probably even nicer curve types (algorithms as i called them) than those. --- but if you wanna know how i really feel about it, i think stereo tracks should disappear altogether. |
07-01-2009 11:24 AM | |||
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So at the moment we have the standard mono pan and we have a "fader" type stereo pan, changing the level sent to each channel, no way of panning one channel to the other (except external solutions or routing).
So what we miss for a stereo panner is being able to send right to left and vice versa. I'd be happy with being able to do that with a click-drag, and also with a right click and enter value with keyboard. An action to get the right click panning menu for the selected channel/s would be nice too :) The real reason I'd like the widget, is that I'd like to have a visual indication of how a track is panned. We are eventually going to be needing multichannel panning, but I suppose that is a separate discussion. |
07-01-2009 12:41 PM | |||
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i think stereo is just 'over'
panning is really a convenient way of routing two disparate tracks (in the case of 'true' stereo,) and i think that is unfortunate, because it makes little sense. how could what is meant to be a binaural sound possibly be 'panned' accurately? its just not thought out very well, in my opinion. all tracks should be mono, imho. or at least we should have a quick function to split a stereo track into two mono tracks and vice/versa. what do you think? |
07-01-2009 01:04 PM | |||
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07-01-2009 01:51 PM | |||
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I support the idea of having an action/command to "Split selected stereo track(s) into 2 mono tracks" but this should be used only if the user needs it. More tracks means more peaks to display more CPU so I don't see this as a global solution but only an special case option. The ability to split the pan into left and right and move the width created by clicking on the center of the 2 splits and drag it it's still the best implementation to follow, the best and easier way to achieve full control over the stereo information in a given track. Presently when panning we're only lowering the volume of one channel so imagine what we could be able to do with a couple of controls to increase/decrease this stereo image and then, if we need to, move it around.
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07-01-2009 03:03 PM | |||
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Right click -> Item processing -> Explode multichannel audio or MIDI items to new mono items. This mutes the original and creates a a folder with two mono tracks. |
07-01-2009 04:48 PM | |||
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Karbo |
07-01-2009 05:06 PM | |||
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Sorry for being off-topic, just wanted to mention this and let you know I got this macro just in case someone needs it. |
07-01-2009 05:31 PM | |||
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07-04-2009 03:11 PM | |||
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I hope the devs change the feature's code to instead do what you just described! it is rarely necessary to have a copy of the file, as long as you are still in possession of the original track! for those rare times when we need two files, there is always the render to separate tracks function. very nice. Great Move Karbomusic! That should be relatively easy to recode. |
07-05-2009 03:15 AM | |||
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this thread is meant to address 'proper' stereo panning, and i really believe sony acid offered the most robust solution in this regard using a small context menu. |
07-05-2009 04:13 AM | |||
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The other way around is getting very little attention. Multiple mono to multitrack item (stereo to 5.1 stems).
I mention this, since many surround mixes come out of Protools systems, and those are multiple mono, which is more convenient if you need to produce multitrack laybacks of different channel configurations. All the music that editors receive from picture editing via OMF, AAF or other inbetweener formats are multiple mono tracks. Putting these together in Reaper is a royal pain in the ass, so I can't see anyone using Reaper for music editing and mixing in the post world, simply because it's so outlandishley inconvenient. Multiple Mono -> multitrack item in Reaper - unpractical -> workaround methods useless. The "but we can do it" argument counts for nothing when time requirements litarally explode a couple of order of magnitude as it does here. Pre-processing via an editor is required, which always destroyes any timecode information in the original files thus far. +1 to the stereo panning. The ideas for this have all been posted, though I'd certainly like to see how Acid does it. Have a screenshot ? |
07-05-2009 05:18 AM | |||
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07-05-2009 06:34 AM | |||
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The method Mercado is speaking of creates two new audio files in addition to the original stereo file (left channel.wav/ right channel.wav) so you end up with 3 files, Orig, left, right. What I'm speaking of doesn't create anything new but gives two mono tracks as left/right. Hope that makes sense... EDIT: Here is a proof-of-concept action that does what I am talking about. The only caveat is it doesn't work if there are multiple items/splits on the track. If it is one contiguous media item (no splits) it should work. Again, just an action to show what I mean. I'm sure there is a better way to create an action to cover multiple items on a track: http://karywall.net/posts/reaperforu...o.ReaperKeyMap Karbo |
07-08-2009 07:07 AM | |||
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Reaper, Leaner and Meaner! |
07-08-2009 07:41 AM | |||
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karbomusic, reapercurious
Here's the macro I was talking about. It doesn't create new files. Split Stereo Track Into 2 Mono Tracks This macro does not replace the original idea (proper stereo panning) in any way. It's just a method some of us could use while we wait for this suggestion to be implemented eventually. NOTE: You need sws' and Xenakios' extensions. EDIT: Macro is working ok now, it was missing an action before. Re-download please. |
07-08-2009 08:57 AM | |||
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we already have the ability to render new tracks, what we need is a function like you created that macro to do. no? i will learn how to use a macro before i comment further! |
07-08-2009 09:31 AM | |||
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A macro is one of the most powerful features in Reaper (imho the second most porweful feature). Just download the .ReaperKeyMap I linked in my post. Start Reaper and go to main menu Actions->Show action list.... Click on Import/export... button and look for the file. Once it's imported you'll see this as a Custom Action in your action list window. Asign a shortcut to it and you're ready to go. Before importing you'd need to download sws' and Xenakios' extensions from here:
sws' Extension Xenakios' Extension This extensions will add more power to control reaper using macros or single actions. Again, sorry for being off-topic jonyjazy. I'm just trying to help here. |
07-11-2009 01:36 PM | |||
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The current mode must be kept as an option to maintain compatibility with projects mixed with earlier versions.
I like the idea of right click splitting the pan slider in half. The halves could then be moved past eachother for a reverse stereo. |
07-11-2009 01:38 PM | ||
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07-11-2009 01:42 PM | ||
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how does cubase and logic do it?
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07-11-2009 02:23 PM | ||
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