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Crossfading extends looped items Issue Tools
issueid=98 06-15-2009 07:03 PM
Human being with feelings
Crossfading extends looped items
An enclosed item that has loop enabled, will extend beyond it's existing area when crossfaded.

3.03 release
1. If an item is enclosed with 'loop enabled', then when crossfaded, it will extend beyond it's original area IF the enclosing item has a longer fade in or out. It should behave the same as an unlooped item, the user can extend that area manually easily so it's making a (wrong) decision for me.



2. Separate issue...crossfades should use the default fade shape only on both enclosed and enclosing items, not the existing fades like they do for enclosed items now.
Issue Details
Issue Type Closed Issue
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Editing behavior
Status Not a Reaper Bug
Priority 10 - Lowest
Affected Version 3.03
Closed Version (none)
Yes votes 0
No votes 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

06-15-2009 07:08 PM
Administrator
 
This behavior is by design, if the item is set to loop, and the user specifically asks for a crossfade that extends beyond the end of the item.

If you know that you do not want to extend beyond the current visible ends of the item, don't select crossfade time that extends beyond. If you know you don't want the item to loop, set the item to not loop.
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06-15-2009 07:30 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
If you know you don't want the item to loop, set the item to not loop.
That wouldn't work for this common scenario, I'd have to glue the item instead (new file)...

Looped:


Unlooped:


Manually extending the enclosing items fade later seems the only solution, if this paradigm is in place.
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06-15-2009 07:40 PM
Administrator
 
What is the end state you are trying to accomplish from that first screenshot?
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06-15-2009 08:01 PM
Human being with feelings
 
It's just an example pre-crossfading, suppose you copied an area of a looped item, and wanted to enclose it over another item...if you turned loop off on the enclosed item, it will move position to the start of the source file (which maybe isn't what you want).

My thinking is, whatever you are trying to enclose (looped or not), you've probably already set that up for it's finished size before pasting/moving. I think that would be more common than wanting it to loop further upon crossfade (at least for me it is.)

I'd also think it's common to crossfade before the enclosed item starts and finishes, depending on the desired result.

I can work around this manually extending the enclosing item fade instead, but I believe it will come up again and again from new users.

On another note...can the crossfade use the default fades only? (rather than the existing enclosed item's fade shape)
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06-15-2009 08:03 PM
Administrator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
I'd also think it's common to crossfade before the enclosed item starts and finishes, depending on the desired result.
This is the key point. If you have an already-looped item, and you don't want to extend it, but you want the crossfade to start before the visible item start, what exactly do you want to happen?
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06-15-2009 08:48 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
This is the key point. If you have an already-looped item, and you don't want to extend it, but you want the crossfade to start before the visible item start, what exactly do you want to happen?
A variable earlier fade-out on the enclosing item (and same for the fade-in again)...in one swipe, rather than manually moving them later.
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06-15-2009 09:18 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Schwa, if it's only me that prefers it that way, then forget it...I made a macro using glue and toggle loop that avoids that behaviour happening with extended fade-in/out.
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06-16-2009 02:48 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Another funky bug I discovered...look what happens if I modify a crossfade manually (the items do NOT have loop enabled here). If I drag the enclosing item's fade to the left, the enclosed item drags with it...which could be cool I guess for some as a linked crossfade, EXCEPT it nukes the item content of the enclosed item.

before modifying the fade, post crossfade:




after modifying the fade:



So it's possible to alter the crossfade to the left and nuke the (unlooped I must stress) enclosed item content. You may have to drag the fade slightly to the right first before it shows up, over the crossfade start of the enclosed item.

Please don't tell me this is design too...
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06-16-2009 03:15 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa

If you know that you do not want to extend beyond the current visible ends of the item, don't select crossfade time that extends beyond.
I don't understand this part. You HAVE to select from a point before the enclosed item starts here, or the crossfade doesn't work (ie nothing happens).

Try this...turn snap on with the item starting at a grid point, and drag-select the first grid-area for instance, then hit 'X'...nothing happens, no crossfade. You have to start your selection slightly earlier than the enclosed item start for it to work (see the pic).

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06-16-2009 04:50 AM
Administrator
 
I think all of these issues come from the fact that, in the enclosed item, you are trying to make a fade start before the item content starts. In the screenshot with the red question mark, what should happen? If the item were to extend to the left by adding silence, then the item would begin with a nonzero volume level, which isn't a fade. If you want the enclosing item fadeout to start before the enclosed item fadein, then that's not a crossfade (at least not one you can create with a single action).

Apologies if I am misunderstanding.
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06-16-2009 05:45 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think all of these issues come from the fact that, in the enclosed item, you are trying to make a fade start before the item content starts.
Unless I'm missing something, you HAVE to start slightly before the enclosed item start, or the crossfade action doesn't work. At least, not here anyway. So, the enclosed items fade is always slightly earlier, and if you then wanted to move it slightly to line it up better, you could easily end up with that funky behaviour. Even if you just misjudged your crossfade amount, modifying it could go haywire and you're better off undoing.

Yes, I have been trying to be creative with the crossfade outside of the design scope I guess. :)

For me, the item extension has no value, and kinda cripples it a bit. Others may prefer that behaviour.

Leaving those bugs there though, are just editing accidents waiting to happen imo.

It's a great feature regardless, doesn't quite work like I expected it to but I'll adapt, many thanks anyway.
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06-16-2009 06:45 AM
Administrator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
Unless I'm missing something, you HAVE to start slightly before the enclosed item start, or the crossfade action doesn't work.
Ah, well that we can change. For 3.04 you'll be able to select time that is completely within both items. The soonest starting item will be considered the left-hand one.
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06-16-2009 03:02 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Thanks, that'll be a great improvement if we can start a crossfade with snap enabled, and then turn it off to complete the selection...very tidy.
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06-16-2009 03:44 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
Schwa, if it's only me that prefers it that way, then forget it...I made a macro using glue and toggle loop that avoids that behaviour happening with extended fade-in/out.
Shouldn't the loop data only be part of the cross fade?

Shane
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