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Old 12-10-2012, 11:31 AM   #1
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Default A Golden Bandaid for Reaper's Achilles' Heel (MIDI Timebase)

Vote, please: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4530

Since recorded MIDI items only respond correctly to timebase after I have manually changed the option in Item Source Properties to ignore project tempo, why not have this as the default behavior?

It just makes sense.

If you haven't seen this problem I'll describe it:
Record a MIDI part without a click. Try changing the project tempo. You will see that regardless of timebase settings, the MIDI items are stretched. You can't align the project tempo to a MIDI item without altering it. If you go into the Item Source Properties and set the 'ignore' option on and type in whatever tempo you were at when you recorded (if you happen to remember what it was), now MIDI stretches only in Beats timebase and not Time timebase, i.e. MIDI items now respond correctly, just not by default.

That's how they should behave by default, no? Devs, please save us some confusion and make it default that items use recorded tempo instead of project tempo.

The main reason it should be default though is that if you've never noticed this problem and decide to mess with your tempo after having split the midi items many times in your project, changing the tempo anywhere will mess up your midi items all over your project and require you to enter Item Source Properties for every single one individually to regain correct behavior.

Also, using the detect tempo actions do not work correctly with MIDI items until you adjust this setting (the tempo is detected for the measure, but the MIDI item will change its length). It's an unnecessary step, IMO.

Thanks!

Proof for the skeptical:
The toolbar buttons are the SWS actions to set project timebase (Beats and Time)
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:02 PM   #2
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Absolutely +1!!

Especially when doing tempo-mapping this drives me nuts.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #3
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Such an underwhelming response to such a glaring flaw... Literally, if this was default behavior and the mouse modifiers were complete and worked as intended, I would have exactly zero problems working in Reaper.

Seriously, why do MIDI items disobey timebase by default and require a tedious workaround to behave correctly? If there was an action to make all items ignore project tempo I would not complain.

It's the needless editing of individual item source properties that gets my goat. What if I disguise him as a llama?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:03 PM   #4
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+1

mentioned all your points elsewhere repeatedly.
And to say it again:
I think it's actually wrong (and confusing) to call a timebase 'time' with the current behaviour of MIDI items. As show the repeated upcoming threads from new users about this topic.

Not so sure about changing it as a default though.
Maybe there could be side effects like breaking old projects ?
But this is up to the devs to judge this anyway.

At least an action to set all selected items to 'ignore tempo' as you said makes total sense.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:14 PM   #5
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this is not limited to Reapers MIDI and is a poorly understood problem for most casual MIDI users.
Anyone who knows enough MIDI to realise how important this is should be banging on the drum right along with us.

Surely a small thing, but in the light of the current (apparent) surge in MIDI love from the devs, maybe this needs to be brought to their attention more formally with a FR?

I would almost suggest this is bordering on a bug or at the very least a self-inflicted wound?
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
+1

mentioned all your points elsewhere repeatedly.
thanks dude, and ivansc, I made one, put the link in the OP.

I would want it to affect all my old projects, personally, but I could live with it affecting only new items by default (or an all-items action). So in either case, best solution is an added option.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:34 AM   #7
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In audio you can always tell the absolute time of each sample because the sample rate is known. In MIDI you know for each event at which measure/beat/tick it occurs, but not when (in absolute time) this measure/beat/tick position takes place.
That's why the "ignore project tempo..." option needs the "use xxx BPM" component.

A possibility would be to always include a tempo marker with each MIDI Reaper records (actually, to make it work reliably it would need to also include each tempo marker that might be already existing in your project at the time you record), but only use these tempo markers to calculate absolute time when in [timebase = time] mode and disregard them in "Beats" mode. Not sure but I've got the hunch this might be a can full of ugly worms.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:07 AM   #8
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Would be great as an option!
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
In audio you can always tell the absolute time of each sample because the sample rate is known. In MIDI you know for each event at which measure/beat/tick it occurs, but not when (in absolute time) this measure/beat/tick position takes place.
That's why the "ignore project tempo..." option needs the "use xxx BPM" component.

A possibility would be to always include a tempo marker with each MIDI Reaper records (actually, to make it work reliably it would need to also include each tempo marker that might be already existing in your project at the time you record), but only use these tempo markers to calculate absolute time when in [timebase = time] mode and disregard them in "Beats" mode. Not sure but I've got the hunch this might be a can full of ugly worms.

Uhm, there comes the ol' 'but other DAWs get this to work correctly'.
(I know it's lame but still true)
Me as a user I actually don't care how it's implemented it just should work as advertised.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:55 AM   #10
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Do they? My ole Logic 5 doesn't (in the sense we're discussing it here), that's for sure. I do have some (not very much) experience with other DAWs, but this is such a rare use case for me (tempo map a free MIDI recording) that I never got to look at how they deal with it.

In Logic there was a "Re-clock Song" function to deal with it where you could reassign bar/beat positions, either manually or with a click track sequence you could record. You had to do that for the full song length. Was a chore to deal with.

Last edited by gofer; 12-16-2012 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Do they?
For a older discussion of this topic I did a licecap from Cubase.
It's here:

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/...baselinear.gif

That's the thing we're talking about, no ?
I can draw tempo like mad and the MIDI just stays put.
All I did was set the track to 'linear' (timebase time).
Or did I miss anything ?
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:45 AM   #12
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That seems to be the thing we're talking about, yes. It would have been good to see the ruler or grid in the capture to see what is happening there.

But from the pixels row of the ruler that is visible the beat positions seem to move relative to the material on the tracks, that's what we're up to (I think). I wish Logic had that back when I needed it . It was possible but a massively daunting task.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:41 AM   #13
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hi gofer - I think the suggestion is to allow items to default to using the tempo information at the time they were recorded -

would be a very powerful and useful option
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
That seems to be the thing we're talking about, yes. It would have been good to see the ruler or grid in the capture to see what is happening there.

But from the pixels row of the ruler that is visible the beat positions seem to move relative to the material on the tracks, that's what we're up to (I think). I wish Logic had that back when I needed it . It was possible but a massively daunting task.
Hehe I thought the same when revisiting this licecap. Should've captured the grid/ruler also.
But you're absolutely right in your observation, when doing tempo changes, MIDI and Audio stay put (in time, when set to linear) and the ruler/grid moves to apply for the changes.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:00 PM   #15
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I've actually brought this topic up numeroustimes since I started using Reaper a couple years ago, but could not accurately describe the problem or reliably reproduce it until now. It also seems that not many people encounter it or understand what's happening. Truthfully, it wasn't till the other day that I even realized I had to use the 'ignore project tempo' option to make MIDI items behave predictably when changing tempo.

I guess most record to a click, which I sometimes do, but I find it very limiting and distracting. Too often it throws me off when I hit record and I lose my groove.

The problems you will encounter before you know what's going on are utterly inexplicable and intensely frustrating. Simply adding a tempo marker in a project of MIDI and audio was enough to just destroy an entire project if I didn't notice right away.

I agree with ivansc that this is borderline buggy behavior too; many times it seemed random and I could not reproduce it. Simply put, MIDI should behave like audio and obey timebase. But this is the case only if you remember to set the Item Source option right after you record. That's just silly. If you forget even once, you will wind up with midi items that are not in sync with anything in the project. It's a nightmare and sadly I had given up trying to write songs with varied tempo because of it.

All that needs to happen is that MIDI item internally correspond to a fixed tempo rather than a tempo that you might decide to change later (project tempo). That fixed tempo can be later synced to the dynamic project tempo without issue. There is ablsolutely no reason I can see that using a native action like "Create measure from time selection" on a piece of MIDI I just recorded should alter the MIDI item when it's clearly designed to adapt the tempo to it.

The really crazy part is that by default, if you are in Time timebase, MIDI item starts remain fixed to time position but stretch when you change the project tempo after the fact, creating gaps or overlapping items. This is not only counterintuitive, but completely useless is is not? When would anyone ever want this? It's an illogical mix of time and musical timebase (they keep their start position based on time but but the end follows the tempo.

Not to harsh on the devs, I do realize this is probably just an oversight that only unconconventional or advanced composers will typically encounter. I just want to point out as clearly as possible that the fix is simple as pie, because as long as I remember to check that Source Properties option after I record, everything works correctly in all three timebases, and more importantly, MIDI and audio items do not get out of sync because I happend to forget to change the properties.

How many people have been happily editing away at a project only to find later that some midi items earlier in the project are somehow hopelessly out of sync? It's maddening and has cost me countless hours to manually sort out. There's just no reason for it. That is why I made the FR priority 1, which I've not done before. Glad we're all on the same page about it.

If there are other discussions already on the topic, we might as well add the links here, or vice versa, so please let me know. Maybe I just never knew the proper terminology to search them out.

Thanks for listening, fellow Reaperites.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
If there are other discussions already on the topic, we might as well add the links here, or vice versa, so please let me know. Maybe I just never knew the proper terminology to search them out.
Here are a few (they go round n round in circles though)

forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=81012

(edit: oh we meet there also )

forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=102397
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:49 AM   #17
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had an interesting one this morning. A client sent me an mp3 file attached to a Reaper project, wanting me to record a bass part into his project and return it.

When I opened the project in Reaper the tempo information etc had not been saved with the .RPP.

Showed as 120bpm and of course the mp3 audio was not lining up.

I cured it fairly easily by phoning him and asking him what tempo it was supposed to be, entered that and all lined up as expected.

But it does beg the question as to how you would restore unsaved tempo information in a saved reaper project without knowing what it should be.

Not exactly the same thing as we are discussing here, but nonetheless worth considering.... Any ideas, anyone?
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Any ideas, anyone?
I think you'd have to guess. I'd draw a time selection around a known measure, and run the create measure action. get as close as you can and just stretch to fit. if you're close and you enter that in the source properties you shouldn't have to stretch it much. you'll probably need to use time timebase when you run the action.

I'm not sure how a reaper project would not have any tempo info though. Did they even use the metronome? Sounds like they did an mp3 mixdown and put it in a default reaper project.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Do they? My ole Logic 5 doesn't (in the sense we're discussing it here), that's for sure. I do have some (not very much) experience with other DAWs, but this is such a rare use case for me (tempo map a free MIDI recording) that I never got to look at how they deal with it.

In Logic there was a "Re-clock Song" function to deal with it where you could reassign bar/beat positions, either manually or with a click track sequence you could record. You had to do that for the full song length. Was a chore to deal with.
Hi,

And we meet again guys!^^

In logic u had the feature.."lock to smpte" or something like that. Multiple items could be selected, and then "locked" to time.

All I really NEED is to not have to go thru many midi items to set them to ignore tempo. If it could be put in the item props box and do all at once that would be good.

@gofer..would it be possible to do this w a Rescript? Im not sayin u should do it^^..just is it possible?

Idealy IMHO, MIDI items {and the data in them} should behave like audio...and respect the timebase selected.


Hope we are not talking agin about this in another year or so^^.

Guido

EDIT..this feature would also be used by ppl scoring to picture. It really is a must...IMHO
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:24 PM   #20
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Hope we are not talking agin about this in another year or so^^.
No shit! The only reason I never bothered to make an FR until now is because I assumed someone already had, and that it was a well known problem, considering the severity. It didn't even occur to me that I might be in the minority for wanting audio and MIDI to behave the same when I change the tempo.

I'm still not sure why there're so few of us complaining about this. Is it rare to combine MIDI and audio or just to alter the tempo envelope after the fact?
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
require you to enter Item Source Properties for every single one individually to regain correct behavior.
The following tip is not "A Golden Bandaid", rather more like a bronze bandaid.

To save you some time, what you could do instead of changing every item's properties is first save the project then open the project file in any text editor that has a search and replace function and simply do a search for "IGNTEMPO 0" and replace with "IGNTEMPO 1" and if the text editor has a replace all function which most do.., use that and it should fix the problem within a few seconds. Then just reopen the project in REAPER.

To upgrade this tip to a silver bandaid.., I believe a Reascript could be written that would produce the same result without having to use a text editor. I think using the "SNM_GetSetSourceState()" function would be the ticket. I'm not familiar with using that function or I would try writing the script myself. So if the bronze bandaid does'nt cut it for you then maybe posting in the "JS and ReaScript Discussion" forum would get you what you are looking for. This would require that you have python installed of course.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:01 AM   #22
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I think "SNM_GetSetSourceState()" is still in beta. With the official release we'd have to use Reaper's in-built get/set state functions which can be potentially harmful. But basically it can be done.

You'd still need some reasonable value for the rest of the IGNTEMPO line ("Use [nn] BPM" and the time signature) to set. A good start would be to just use the current (at the time the script is run) project BPM and timesig. But would likely fail as soon as there are tempo/timesig changes already existing.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:54 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton9 View Post
The following tip is not "A Golden Bandaid", rather more like a bronze bandaid.

To save you some time, what you could do instead of changing every item's properties is first save the project then open the project file in any text editor that has a search and replace function and simply do a search for "IGNTEMPO 0" and replace with "IGNTEMPO 1" and if the text editor has a replace all function which most do.., use that and it should fix the problem within a few seconds. Then just reopen the project in REAPER.
That is a really nifty idea. Could be really useful for some projects I have with hundreds of items.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
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That is a really nifty idea. Could be really useful for some projects I have with hundreds of items.
Until there is a ReaScript alternative you could do it using AutoHotkey.

0. saving current project as name_igntempo.rpp
1. replace in name_igntempo.rpp IGNTEMPO 0 with IGNTEMPO 1
2. open name_igntempo.rpp

3. smile!


On whichever project you have you could just press a single key, wait a few seconds, continue working, now with correct behavior.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:13 PM   #25
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Just had a rant in another thread about the MIDI and tempo thing.
There are many aspects of the MIDI I find utterly maddening!!! It really lets down the software.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:04 PM   #26
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Just had a rant in another thread about the MIDI and tempo thing.
There are many aspects of the MIDI I find utterly maddening!!! It really lets down the software.
Agreed, but voting for FR's is surely more constructive than ranting, no?
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:14 PM   #27
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Hi.

I have mapped my share of free time audio + MIDI recordings in Logic and REAPER to know exactly what you are talking about.

The perfectly good reason that 'ignore project tempo' is not the default MIDI item is that REAPER was born in the age of loop based composition.

This form of 'composition' is surely far beneath all of you [/sarcasm] but it is an entry point for newbies. Even some very talented musicians use MIDI loops. Look at the quality of groove monkies stuff.

For this type of sequencing the current default MIDI item properties work perfectly.

Until the time that a newb connects up their MIDI and audio hardware, sucessfuly records a dark, fluid monster with DI'd analogue instruments and MIDI, then says, "hey I think now I'd like to add a loop now, guess I'll need to tempo map this sucker!!" then things don't need to change.

You know that 'really nifty idea' of antons is PURE REAPING genius. PF, admit it!!

Recording MIDI without a click is still not the default MIDI arranging technique, it is currently an advanced technique. Changing the default to 'ignore project tempo' would just cock up REAPER for entry level looping.
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Last edited by hamish; 01-04-2013 at 07:53 PM. Reason: properties
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #28
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You know that 'really nifty idea' of antons is PURE REAPING genius. PF, admit it!!

Changing the default to 'ignore project tempo' would just cock up REAPER for entry level looping.
Admitted (though i haven't tried yet, does it work on the fly with the project open?).

But I disagree on the second point. As long as timebase is in beats everything works as expected (the same as audio). It's only those of us that understand how to use timebase who get screwed.

In the post-fix scenario I've described, in beats timebase (default) the midi will get stretched, it time, only the tempo map changes. I don't see how this could screw with anyone. In other words, if a default change was implemented as per this request, no one would see any difference unless they decide to change timebase and in that case, things would still be working as expected instead of how they are now.

Currently the midi gets stretched in either timebase until you alter the source properties. Makes not a bit a sense.

For the record, my compositional style could be described as pattern based (i.e. essentially loop based). I don't use native looping in reaper because I think the loop indicators look like dogshit. Prefer ghosted midi items locked to the grid.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:30 PM   #29
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Here is a little VBScript i put together.

It replaces IGNTEMPO 0 with IGNTEMPO 1 in Reaper project files.

Put the file anywhere you want
create a link to it (right term?) and put it into your "User\SendTo" folder.

If you have a project where you want to convert this value for all your midi items, save it, then go to the media explorer, find the project, right click on it, then go to "SendTo" and send this project to this script. Then reload the project. Et voilà ! Tested it on winxp. Worked fine here.

Of course, it's only a workaround.

Last edited by witti; 08-07-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:14 PM   #30
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well we've probably got our wires crossed, but currently if you arrange audio and MIDI loops, set the loops to 'Ignore' and then change the project tempo the result is chaos. Of course I'm sure your feature request isn't asking for that.

... the .RPP editing workaround as described above obviously CAN'T work on the fly, but (I think) could be written into reaper.exe, and the counter-intuitive 'Ignore project tempo' property removed from the front-end altogether and replaced with a not-too-hard-to-find 'lock/unlock MIDI for tempo mapping' switch.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:43 PM   #31
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Maybe I just don't understand your way of describing your 'fix'.

Does it amount to MIDI items getting 'Ignore' and 'xxx bpm' set automatically when recording new MIDI items in 'time' as semiquaver explains, is that it?

The thing is I think many of us still need the 'lock/unlock' in there somewhere, as once we have tempo mapped, we want the MIDI unlocked, (clocked to new tempo map) so that in subsequent tempo editing the MIDI behaves as MIDI is meant to, staying on the right beat and bar. Audio items shrink or grow.

The main hassles really as I understand are

1) the naming and position of MIDI locking is counter-intuitive

2) there is a confusing redundancy in the timebase modes when applied to MIDI (your main problem, and fair enough)

3) Locking and unlocking ('ignoring' to use the current term) multiple items is a timewaster (see workaround this thread)

Your FR would solve 2) but for some audio and MIDI related recording and arranging I think there needs to be a global lock/unlock (and reclock - like what glue MIDI items does, but without creating one item. I hope I have that right.)
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #32
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It would be nice, if the midi item properties window would exactly behave as the media item properties window.

Instead of applying changes to midi items one by one, it should apply changes to ALL selected (midi) items at once.

I don't have a problem to open another window for this task, so for me it would be the easiest solution.


But no, wait...

a feature to lock/unlock midi items would be great !! Maybe visible as the item mute button or the item lock button...
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:14 AM   #33
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Just as an aside:

It would be nice if that dialog would be called "MIDI source properties", as "Item properties" is already used for that other dialog.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:48 AM   #34
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Or "Midi item source properties"
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:51 PM   #35
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I do want REAPER to improve in this area, but the solution has to preserve the basic types of recording and arranging.

For example, record audio and MIDI sources with the metronome on, 100 bpm, then change project tempo to 108. If the MIDI has been locked then it won't work.

What if recording in 'time' locked all MIDI to the (nominal) project tempo and recording in 'beats' didn't? (PF FR)

So if you want to record to a click you must record in 'beats'. The MIDI items are NOT set to 'ignore'.

If you want to record 'time' all recorded MIDI is automatically locked. Then you can tempo map. Switch to 'beats' and all MIDI is automatically unlocked. Now you can overdub to the mapped click, and later change project tempo or add new tempo markers.

I'm just concerned that beginners can screw this up too easily. They will record in 'time' with the metronome on, and then try to change project tempo. I have thought of a simple solution, metronome is DISABLED when project timbase is set to 'time'!
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #36
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Hamish-the thing is, there are two references, which you seem to realize; project and tempo markers. If the MIDI items are set by default to use project tempo, there are cases (which I can't seem to reproduce reliably, they just crop up in complex arrangements) when they ignore the tempo markers. They slide around inside their item containers and it's just inexplicable chaos. If I have them all set to ingore project tempo, I never encounter these types of problems.

Granted a noob is not going to mess with tempo markers or timebase and will change the tempo via bpm on the transport bar and it will probably be a static bpm throughout. Do we even need both tempo references? Once you add a tempo marker, the bpm field changes whichever tempo marker is nearest the edit cursor and the project tempo is locked unless you change it in the project settings and this oftem produces unexpected results. So as soon as you add a tempo marker, the project tempo is moot and items referencing that can behave in incorrect ways.

We might as well just use a tempo marker at the start of default projects and do away with "project tempo" altogether. At least until project tempo can relatively scale tempo markers across the whole project like it should.

MIDI items without the ignore option always lock to beats, never time. With the ignore option, they lock to beats in beat timebase but not time. Don't see a way anyone could misuse this; MIDI just responds the same as audio, i.e. correctly. Without the option audio and MIDI respond differently and I also can't see any possible usefulness in that. With the default I'm requesting there is no way to screw anything up. Things just work as expected and you have consistency and full control. Without the ignore option, you WILL screw things up plenty if you are working with audio, MIDI, tempo markers and timebase simultaneously.

Noobs probably rarely do this anyway, but my point is, there's just no downside to my request. MIDI will follow beats in beat timebase and time in time timebase, just like audio. If you didn't record to a click, MIDI can be used to set measures and it will remain the correct size after the "detect tempo" action. Currently, until you check the ignore option in source properties, time timebase combined with tempo markers will wreck your project fast. At least the MIDI portion. And if you don't know what project tempo you had when you recorded the MIDI items, you're doubly screwed, as the ignore option relies on this information being accurate.

Having to manually check the ignore project tempo option is counterintuitive and unecessary because MIDI items should already know they need to start referencing tempo markers when you start adding them. This is why I say make it default. It's a win win. Unless someone can describe a situation where you would want MIDI and audio in different timebases? That's what track and item timebase are for. Everything needs to follow project timebase. Only projects recorded to a click and never needing time timebase will have zero problems in the current state. The way I'm describing will not affect anyone used to the current system. One just might have to learn what timebase does, which can be confusing to noobs.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:44 PM   #37
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I'm off to France and no internet for a few weeks so here is one for you to discuss.

Bit of a niche situation but still relevant.

IF Reaper were set up to be able to read the resolution of an incoming MIDI file or "item" and ask whether or not it should change the project timebase to that value, we would have caught up with just about every other sequenceing software I have ever used in the last twenty odd years.
Is this too much to ask?

A classic example of this is the old Roland MIDI boxes, which by the time the sound canvas standard came around were running at a fixed rate of 192 resolution.
One of the biggest problems this caused initially was with early sequencers expecting to find different res and not being able to adjust to Rolands "Standard".
But of course that was initially solved by offering a choice (menu at loading) of res and eventually everything adapted automatically in one direction or the other.

Be nice if Reaper could "see" a MIDI item recorded at a different tempo and resolution and just "do the math" on import.

Anyone else tired of importing MIDI into a 120bpm project and seeing the drum part sliding slowly but surely backwards or forwards out of synch because of either tempo mismatch or resolution mismatch?
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post

Be nice if Reaper could "see" a MIDI item recorded at a different tempo and resolution and just "do the math" on import.

Anyone else tired of importing MIDI into a 120bpm project and seeing the drum part sliding slowly but surely backwards or forwards out of synch because of either tempo mismatch or resolution mismatch?
Yes to the second. To the first, afaik that's what the ignore option does in source properties. Gives the item a static reference tempo and mathematically maps it to Reaper's tempo map. And apparently the item knows what tempo it was recorded at because if you input another tempo here the item re-sizes. IMO, this makes having this option and needing to tick it all the more unnecessary. All items should reference a static tempo and the align mathematically to any tempo mapping. Then we would not have any problems.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:45 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post

Anyone else tired of importing MIDI into a 120bpm project and seeing the drum part sliding slowly but surely backwards or forwards out of synch because of either tempo mismatch or resolution mismatch?
I have yet to see that. My AKAI MPC (RIP ) was fixed at 96 (!) PPQ and files saved with Logic (PC) are 960. Both will open exactly as saved and will be recalculated to whatever I set as PPQ in Reaper. A measure recorded on the AKAI will always still be a measure in Reaper, no matter at which tempo the project is running - if I don't set the file to "Ignore project tempo", of course. If I do set it to ignore, I'll have to dial in the exact tempo used when the file was recorded in "use nn BPM instead" or it will "slide".

Last edited by gofer; 01-05-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
Only projects recorded to a click and never needing time timebase will have zero problems in the current state.
that's true

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
You just might have to learn what timebase does, which can be confusing to noobs.
Sorry you felt you had to say that. You will have to try to understand the difference between Audio and MIDI data. Tempo can be bent through a MIDI item, but not through an audio one. Unless (I think) if you are using Propellorhead record, but that ONLY has a beats timeline.

REAPER will never go that way because of it's stong time orientation, as I understand it. Tape recording emulator, post production work etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
If there was an action to make all items ignore project tempo I would not complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
All I really NEED is to not have to go thru many midi items to set them to ignore tempo. If it could be put in the item props box and do all at once that would be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
At least an action to set all selected items to 'ignore tempo' as you said makes total sense.

I agree totally. AND it would be great if MIDI items recorded without a click would not follow the nominal, unrelated project tempo as you built a tempo map, and auto-filling of the MIDI item properties would be great.

But MIDI items should (unless set by option) Obey TEMPO by Default. The tempo value at the place it was recorded.
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