Old 12-31-2012, 07:17 AM   #1
atomcrayon
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Default How can I ADD guitar feedback?

I'm searching high and low trying to figure out how to add some guitar noise/feedback to a song that I'm working on. Everything I am finding through Google is how to eliminate guitar feedback.

I'm using Amplitube and plugging in via an M-Audio interface. Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions or knows of any effects that might help.

Thanks!!
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:22 AM   #2
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Turn it up! and stand in front of your monitors.

I really don't recommend this, but it will work.

There was a plugin a while back that was suppose emulate feedback, but you guessed it... it sucked (and it was $100).

What exactly are you trying to do?
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:28 AM   #3
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It's all in the distortion, any mainstream amp isn't going to allow feedback.

I made some clones of that Boss feedback pedal, here they are -
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34713525/FeedMe.rar
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34713525/WildSolo.rar

LP filter that feedbacks into itself w/a clipper to control it, pitch vibrato
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:39 AM   #4
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There's a feedback emulator pedal that can be purchased from amplitube custom shop. But it only does an emulation on single notes.

An alternative is to use a compressor on a high setting in front of an overdrive sound, which will help to get feedback from your monitors.

Pete
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:47 AM   #5
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There's also this diamond.

http://www.softube.com/acoustic_feedback.php
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:00 AM   #6
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There's also this diamond.
Have you tried this?
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:15 AM   #7
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At $99 I think I will pass.

OP think of your computer system and software as a regular amp and do what you would normally do to induce feedback.

You noisy blighter, you!
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 AM   #8
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I WISH that I could be a noisy blighter!

Not always possible, unfortunately.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:14 AM   #9
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Compress the guitar liberally and then, turn it up a bit in the loudspeakers. Feedback will be somewhat more controllable and more harmonic pitches will be available at a lower volume.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:19 AM   #10
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If you want to add feedback to an already recorded track that has none, play it loud through your monitors along with an open mic (also coming out of the monitors). Record the mic track, you may have to eq it a bit to get it to take off at your desired frequencies, but then you can just mix it in with your original guitar tack.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:26 AM   #11
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There must be a looped sample of guitar feedback out there somewhere!

Google maybe.

http://archive.org/details/GuitarFeedback
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:37 AM   #12
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Default About guitar feedback...

The basic premise is you hold out a note or chord on the guitar, which eventually comes out of the speaker which in turn vibrates the string(s) at one or more sympathetic/resonant overtones, which gets amplified again, rinse and repeat. Same process as microphone feedback only richer and much more pleasing. Actually, harmonics, overtones etc. are what guitar feedback is all about and they are near perfect sine waves which is very important. There are lots of reasons VSTs don't handle this well. If you can take care of some of those issues you can get better feedback.

Midrange vs fullrange
Everything that matters about guitar feedback is in the midrange. This is precisely why full range speakers, aka monitors do such a horrible job at it. Even a mic'd amp doesn't feedback through the PA speakers alone as well as it would the guitar amp/speaker. The guitar speaker has such a midrange response, it tends to be perfect for feedback. Running a VST through fullrange monitors, no matter how accurate are going to be lacking. The accuracy is part of the problem because guitar speakers are anything but accurate. Their misgivings actually assist feedback. A woofer and tweeter attempting to create midrange isn't the same as an actual midrange speaker.

FX
Most FX are the death of good feedback. The very best feedback you can get is with the purest of signals (remember feedback is like a sine wave which if disturbed kills the feedback). Compression/distortion are about the only FX that don't fall into this group (they actually help) but I don't call those effects. Most other effects make changes in the regularity of the signal, phase shifters, chorus, reverb; gates are obviously out of the question as well. VSTs tend to add lots of additional stuff that makes the VST/guitar sound like a "record" but those are horrible for feedback as they break that regularity of the pure signal.

Latency
Its a guess of mine but I would assume latency in the chain wouldn't help but is likely at the bottom of the list. I'm sure it affects that tight bond between speaker strings required for great feedback somewhat.

So there are a few things one can do to make it better.

1. Cut the lows/highs and boost the mids on the VST and or the master in Reaper just for the part you want feedback. Increasing the mids should make an immediate difference.

2. Remove any and all FX other than gain and compression. You might even increase gain and compression slightly for recording the feedback. Remove anything stereo or use the mono switch on the track, go all mono for the recording part. I might go so far as to say only have a single monitor on because that sine wave likely won't arrive to the string(s) from each speaker at the same time once again disturbing the alignment that allows the feedback to happen.

3. Get closer to the speaker but it all depends on sympathetic vibrations and angle of the guitar in relation to the speaker. This will greatly affect which overtones tend to feedback. Simply turning slightly in one direction will alter the feedback and make it morph into a different overtone. Also by gutting the lows/highs you can effectively turn up a tad more with less damage to the monitors and assisting in feedback.

4. If the guitar doesn't feedback well through a regular amp, its not going to through a VST. Every guitar also has its own dominant overtones that feedback easier than others.

5. Be aware of vibrato, use a single static sustained note or chord to start. The variation from the vibrato sometimes breaks that 1:1 relationship between speaker, frequency, note, string etc. It can be used to coax feedback in some instances but it works better when you already know the feedback is easy to achieve and or after the feedback has started.

Ideally a real amp is the easiest and purest way to achieve. Depending on what you have at hand you could even run an external signal to some guitar speaker where the speaker isn't actually recorded, it only provides those vibrations back to the string. However if one takes all of the above you can at least get basic guitar feedback from many VSTs but it simply isn't going to work well with most out of the box settings for both the VST and the monitoring. Boost the mids, cut the low/highs and get all the extraneous crap out of the signal and it will work better FWIW.

I still use a real amp for it, its just to cool for school but based on what I've seen most using VSTs could pull it off better if they had a little more info on how it works and why it doesn't many times with a VST. I might also add that many, if not most small studio monitors simply can't get loud enough to fuel the feedback properly.

Last edited by karbomusic; 01-01-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dug dog View Post
Have you tried this?
That's the one I was trying to remember in my previous post... I didn't like it, plus its $99.

Want 'real' feedback, get a 'real' amp.

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Old 01-04-2013, 09:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
(snip)
Ideally a real amp is the easiest and purest way to achieve. Depending on what you have at hand you could even run an external signal to some guitar speaker where the speaker isn't actually recorded, it only provides those vibrations back to the string.
(Snip)
Excellent post. Actually I've been thinking about setting up a rig specifically for this purpose. Run the guitar => DI or preamp => Audio card =>DAW w/ VST amp sims, etc. Monitor the track's output through a seperate out on the Audio card then into the outboard amp/ cab. Something like that. Haven't tried it, don't know if or how well it would work.

Problem with any of this is the cab has to be so loud that it's been difficult or more like impossible to monitor existing tracks while recording. Maybe some of those "Headcrusher" 'phones? Wondering how you do it?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:49 AM   #15
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Try this:

Buy a cheap nasty practice amp, something like a 10 or 15 watt combo with at least an 8" speaker.

Pick up a couple of cheap distortion pedals, Boss DS-1 is ideal or cheap Behringer stuff - it doesn't really matter what it sounds like as you won't be recording it.

Using a DI box split your guitar signal, with one going to your interface and the other going into the dirt box and then into the cruddy practice amp.

With the amp switched off, set up your DAW to record, get your sound right etc and use a set of headphones to monitor through. Now, position the practice amp on a stool or on the desk, whatever will get it as close as possible to your guitar - you want the speaker directed directly at the pickup area.

Switch the amp on and start playing with various levels of gain on the amp and pedals until you start getting feedback - chain 2 or more pedals together or use a dirt box and a compressor to get to that point with as little volume as you can. With a speaker 8" or larger really close to your guitar it shouldn't have to be crazy loud before it feeds back.

Now adjust your headphone volume so you can hear the click or whatever clearly over the practice amp, and record your parts.

If you're anything like myself or all the other guitar players I know, you'll probably have all that stuff taking up space in a spare room already, so likely you'll be able to do it without having to actually spend anything.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:23 AM   #16
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Stu:

I like this idea and will give it a try.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #17
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My mother buys every "nifty gadget" she sees. Gave me a Boombox and I was like "WTF am I doing to do with this?" Then it hit me!

How you actually connect the thing is up to what you've got. If you have a spare output from your computer you could send the post amp sim guitar sound out there to the Boombox. Otherwise you might need to figure out some kind of buffered split before going into your interface. You will likely want some compression or distortion on whatever is sent to the Boombox. It doesn't have to sound good. It just needs to give you the sustain you want.

Try sticking the transducer different places on the guitar for different response. I found that it works best on my SG if I stick it on the headstock between the tuning pegs. Its a little awkward having a cable hang off your head, but you can probably figure something out to keep it out of your way.


Edit - I guess the link is not to the Boombox brand, but it's the same thing. There are a lot these things out there, and they're cheap!
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Want 'real' feedback, get a 'real' amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
My mother buys every "nifty gadget" she sees. Gave me a Boombox and I was like "WTF am I doing to do with this?" Then it hit me!
Heh heh, love it...
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Softshell View Post
Excellent post. Actually I've been thinking about setting up a rig specifically for this purpose. Run the guitar => DI or preamp => Audio card =>DAW w/ VST amp sims, etc. Monitor the track's output through a seperate out on the Audio card then into the outboard amp/ cab. Something like that. Haven't tried it, don't know if or how well it would work.

Problem with any of this is the cab has to be so loud that it's been difficult or more like impossible to monitor existing tracks while recording. Maybe some of those "Headcrusher" 'phones? Wondering how you do it?
I haven't actually done it (yet) but I when I record a real amp which is about 80% of the time right now, the headphones get loud enough to hear the mix so it should be fine. Note that when I record an amp I never feed that through the phones. That way if too loud the phones filter out some of the volume in the room. I actually almost always move the cup slightly off of one ear and adjust accordingly which becomes my method for adjusting how I hear the guitar in relation to the mix. I do the same with my vocals. Besides, it can cause pitch interpretation issues if the phones are too loud.

I should add one thing... After I made that post I went back and tried some of my own suggestions and I did come to one sobering conclusion. Most small and even some bigger monitors simply don't get loud enough, that's much of the issue. In otherwords I cranked the mids etc and it worked but was still a little lacking, I turned up the monitors and they began overloading before I could get to "loud enough". Part of that not loud enough is the fact they don't put out the ideal feedback sonics because they are full range speakers but it was also simply not enough SPLs.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:03 PM   #20
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you can crank up some headphones and put them over the pickup. Send the guitar signal from the DAW back into the headphones.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I should add one thing... After I made that post I went back and tried some of my own suggestions and I did come to one sobering conclusion. Most small and even some bigger monitors simply don't get loud enough, that's much of the issue. In otherwords I cranked the mids etc and it worked but was still a little lacking, I turned up the monitors and they began overloading before I could get to "loud enough". Part of that not loud enough is the fact they don't put out the ideal feedback sonics because they are full range speakers but it was also simply not enough SPLs.
This is why I suggest using a speaker 8" or larger, I've gone through this whole thing myself and speaker size seemed to be one of the deciding factors on whether it would generate feedback or not, presumably due to the larger size producing more movement and vibration of the strings.

The method I described above worked fine for me, took some experimentation with the gain and volume but I was able to get nice feedback without having to crank my 'proper' amp to ear crushing (and neighbour annoying) levels.

Edit: thinking about it, the only time I've managed to get good, controllable feedback while tracking from a control room was one time in a place where they had huge midfield monitors with 10" mid drivers, seems to confirm what I was saying but perhaps it was incredibly loud too, it was many years ago now.

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Old 01-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
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I find you don't need much for volume but plenty of distortion.

Here's an example with I think guitar rig or probably le pou (I can pull the session up but it's old and it doesn't really matter what sim), and then just moving around my monitors to find the nodes.

It's about 3 or 4 guitars and later I played around with some parameter modulation for the intro bit.

Don't waste your time with feedback plugins... they are weird.

http://soundcloud.com/roborules/gweegwoo
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:04 PM   #23
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Here's a little over a minute's worth of just standing there making feedback noise with a couple amps and guitars mic'd up. You'll have to overlook the humming single coils. Added a little reverb and delay for fun.

http://tinyurl.com/b3ho2wq
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #24
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Wow, been gone a few days...I can't even begin to thank you all enough for all the replies. There are some GREAT suggestions and I'm gonna give them a go tonight and see what happens.

Someone asked what I was trying to do. I'm a big fan of just about anything from Johnny Cash to The Smiths...but my true love is for the aggressiveness of hardcore, punk and metal. I played bass years ago, but gave it up around the time I got married...had kids shortly thereafter, and now like 12 years later I'm finding time to play again. Anyway...just playing some noisy, heavy stuff...and have a few songs written where a little guitar feedback would add a little life to some parts that feature just drums...like in an intro with a sort of tribal tom beat. Would be really cool to have some feedback fade in until the guitars and bass kick in.

So yeah, nothing crazy...not gonna go Eddie Van Halen and hold a drill to my pickups. Just adding a little noise that this software seems to do such a great job of getting rid of.

Thanks again for all the suggestions...home recording (and playing guitar for the most part) is pretty new to me, and will certainly be sticking around this forum. Oh yeah...I just made the jump from Garageband to Reaper. Was intrigued after hearing that Reaper can automatically separate an EZ Drummer kit in to their own individual tracks...and now finding so much more that I've been missing with Garageband.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:38 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
My mother buys every "nifty gadget" she sees. Gave me a Boombox and I was like "WTF am I doing to do with this?" Then it hit me!
I'm thinking that this thing might be the holy grail for apartment dwelling home recordists. Has anyone else tried it out?
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:53 AM   #26
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How does an eBow unit work?
I guess it keeps the string vibrating somehow.

Could you modify it and do the pinch harmonics thingy to get that feedback feel?????


Or could you create an internal loopback in Reaper and have some delays and limiters/compressors and stuff keeping it slower in changes?

There is some setting in Reaper if to allow feedback in routing(project settings).

Then use JS/MIDI plugin controlled by expression pedal to adjust feedback amount.

There are some pedals with hold function, which is probably easier to get working properly though.

Some kind of whammy or distortion pedal, if I remember right.


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Old 01-12-2013, 10:03 AM   #27
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How does an eBow unit work?
I guess it keeps the string vibrating somehow.

Could you modify it and do the pinch harmonics thingy to get that feedback feel?????
Yes and/or play the note and "brush" a finger across the sting 12 (or 7 or 5) frets above it for that harmonic. This works with or with out the Ebow.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:33 PM   #28
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I have one of those Boombox/Rock It/Vibe It thingies headed my way. My interface has a real time monitoring set up and I'll be able to hook the Vibe It directly to the headphone jack of the interface. I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I'm thinking this could be the shiznizzle. I hope to be able to report back in a couple days.

http://www.amazon.com/Vibe-It-Portab...ywords=vibe+it
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:00 AM   #29
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Here's a trick I use that works phenomenally:
I use Zebra but any synth with a sine wave oscillator will do, even the built in Reasynth.
Set up three or four tracks with each playing a steady sine wave corresponding to the harmonics of the pitch you wish to sound, e.g.:
1st track - C1
2nd track - C2
3rd track - G2
4th track - C3
....
You can go on for as many harmonics as you like but four is probably enough.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmoni...es_%28music%29 in case you were wondering).
The additive "SpectroBlend" osc in Zebra is perfect for this but as I said earlier any synth will do.
Next step is to automate the volume of each harmonic so that they fade in and out, the lower ones being predominant. For example, let's say if the feedback builds up over a couple of measures, first the fundamental would fade in, cross-fading into the first or second overtone briefly, then introduce just the slightest bit of the third overtone towards the end.
There's just an example. This could also be done with one or two synths with multiple oscillators being volume-automated separately.
Next, feed all those tracks into your amp-sim of choice (e.g. Amplitube for OP). The easiest way to do this in Reaper would be using a folder track.
For added authenticity try very briefly introducing a slightly detuned sine wave, I think this makes it sound great!
Mind you, I recognize that this style of "micro-editing" may seem mind numbing for some, but also great fun for those OCD among us!
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 AM   #30
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I agree with Stu, the best way is to have DI that splits the signal and takes it to a real amp. This way you can record the feedback sound within the DI signal and you don't need stellar amp or even a microphone. I would feel more unease to use studio monitors for this, also it is easier to get intimate with amp and there is literally a zero latency.

Distortion or OD pedal before amp might help a lot. I've also found that wah pedal can really help to excite that feedback. Also some guitars are more prone to feedback than others. Hollowbodies feedback pretty easily, but of course their sound might not be what you are after...
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
Turn it up! and stand in front of your monitors.

I really don't recommend this, but it will work.
Why not? You don't need a lot of volume actually. Just the right amount of gain/compression. You can get a great feedback a quite low volumes with an amp emulator. Won't risk your monitors at all.

Artificial feedback emulators or pedals? Naaahh! C'mon! Get it for real.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:03 AM   #32
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Vibe It! Holy Shatner!

This thing works great. Special thanks to Ashcat for this tip.

The cables on the Vibe It are a bit on the short side, so there are some constraints in terms of how everything is physically set up but I don't think it would be too hard to splice in a bit of extra wire if necessary.

Stoked!
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
My mother buys every "nifty gadget" she sees. Gave me a Boombox and I was like "WTF am I doing to do with this?" Then it hit me!
I MacGyvered something like this when I was a teenager (back in the 90s) and it worked amazingly well. I got a shitty 2" radio-shack speaker, wired it up to a practice amp output which I fed from my main amp's FX loop send. Then I used a little G-clamp & a piece of wood to clamp the speaker to my guitar's headstock.

The feedback is really nice and musical, because it's feeding the guitar's sound back into the wood to resonate, so it responds really nicely to whatever you're playing. Much the same as a really LOUD amp makes the guitar body/strings resonate. I assume that's the type of feedback you want, rather than the microphonic "eeeeeeeeeee" of speakers straight into pickups. (YUCK)

Naturally I thought I was a complete genius at the time. I had no idea you could buy these things off the shelf now. Off to ebay with me!
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:40 AM   #34
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Naturally I thought I was a complete genius at the time.
I think you were.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #35
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Turn it up! and stand in front of your monitors
wow, thank you so much for repeating the first reply to the thread.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:11 PM   #36
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Someone else already said it, but it's true: Amplitube is probably built in such a way that it REDUCES feedback. It's not optimized for getting that sound. It's like swimming upstream. You might as well try a different method.

I would run your guitar through either A) a CHEAP nasty distortion pedal that's very hot (think a Boss DS-1).

OR B) a nice, PRICEY distortion pedal that's really hot. I recommend the MXR M116. It IS a bit expensive, but it gives me the most outrageous feedback I could ever ask for. You can't beat real, analog pedals for tone.

Get the excessive feedback you want using a non-digital pedal and then use plug-ins to tone it down and adjust your levels. It's much harder to create good, sexy feedback than eliminate it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:57 PM   #37
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What about using the Routing Matrix???
Could be intense!!

Probably want to control it heavily...
E.G. Limiters, Compressors
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Buy a cheap nasty practice amp, something like a 10 or 15 watt combo with at least an 8" speaker.

Pick up a couple of cheap distortion pedals, Boss DS-1 is ideal or cheap Behringer stuff - it doesn't really matter what it sounds like as you won't be recording it.

Using a DI box split your guitar signal, with one going to your interface and the other going into the dirt box and then into the cruddy practice amp.

OK, so I finally got around to trying this. To clarify, the problem here is not getting feedback (that's a whole 'nuther situation) but getting it at a usable level. My own previous attempts required pretty much being right on top of a screaming powerful amplifier with headphones turned way up. I still couldn't hear the 'phones hardly at all - translate no where near good enough. And ridiculously painful.

Was hung up due to not having (anymore) any kind of distortion/ OD pedal. Been wanting to get something along those lines anyway and decided that I might as well go for a unit that sounded good vs just any old thing. So after a bunch of research and trying about 50 different pedals I ended up with a Fulltone Full-Drive 2 MOSFET. Among the few pedals I still have is an old Dyna Comp. Put that before the Fulltone. Then there's the problem of splitting the signal. I have this Boss preamp, actually for AcousticGT/ Fishman sorta thing, that has 2 outputs. So I ran the Dyna Comp => Fulltone => Preamp/ splitter. One signal went to the interface and the other into this SS Crate amp with a 12" and overdrive channel.

I found I still had to crank the amp pretty good, although considerably less than the larger amps I've used, to get any sort of feedback. End result; with the 'phones at a not too crazy level I could actually hear enough of what I needed to. As opposed to in the past.

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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I should add one thing... After I made that post I went back and tried some of my own suggestions and I did come to one sobering conclusion. Most small and even some bigger monitors simply don't get loud enough, that's much of the issue. In otherwords I cranked the mids etc and it worked but was still a little lacking, I turned up the monitors and they began overloading before I could get to "loud enough". Part of that not loud enough is the fact they don't put out the ideal feedback sonics because they are full range speakers but it was also simply not enough SPLs.
So it seems there's a combination of speaker size & frequency response, amp & effects drive, and raw SPLs. I think you need a certain amount of force (SPL) to mechanically vibrate the body of the guitar. Along those lines maybe that Vibe It thingy might be the trick.

Any way I'm going to keep on experimenting.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:31 PM   #39
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Along those lines maybe that Vibe It thingy might be the trick.

Any way I'm going to keep on experimenting.
I don't think you'll be disappointed.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #40
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I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Heh, I was just checking out some reviews. The negative ones seem to be from some really ignorant individuals. "I have to take the cover off my Ipad to plug it in so it's no good" (paraphrased). Back on topic, looks like there's several different units available doing basically the same thing.
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