4 Essential Things To Make The Takes System Usable

fiddler59 · 05-16-2009, 07:09 AM

These have been discussed before in other parts of the forum but I am going to post them here hoping for some love by the developers....these are quoted from Tallisman who stated it better than I could

"my top 4 wishes:
1. takes do not rename unless I rename them.
2. takes do not resize vertically nor move/jump lanes, unless I do it manually.
3. capslock modifier allows me to edit any take independent of its brothers. That means resizing, splitting, moving/nudging, stretching, fades, everything.
4. takes do not split when recording new takes. "

If we could get these changes made I would stop all my bitching about how Reaper currently handles takes. Justin, you would make me, and a lot of other people VERY HAPPY if we could these items implemented.

TIA,
David Blackmon

Tallisman · 05-16-2009, 09:29 AM

I'll add my ++1 to that

.t

larrygates · 05-16-2009, 11:15 AM

Please fiddler don't say you're bitching. You're bringing up good points that people on deadlines, and like creating without thinking have to deal with negatively. If larger DAW's had certain base things missing, they couldn't charge so much cash.

Oh well.

+ everything. NUDGE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddler59

If we could get these changes made I would stop all my bitching

David Blackmon

edding · 05-25-2009, 01:54 PM

+1
Please, Please, Please! I'm still waiting for jump!

I have only two obstacles to jump from nuendo:
-Flexible Takes systems
-Audio Pool or something for files administration (housekeeping)

schwa · 05-25-2009, 07:43 PM

Cmon Tallisman, let's see the pic.

Tallisman · 05-25-2009, 08:32 PM

Hear ye. Hear ye!
Let us examine the four fundamentals upon which shall be built the new and ever-potent take system.

brainwreck · 05-25-2009, 08:58 PM

ha ha! funny guy.

semiquaver · 05-25-2009, 09:02 PM

+1

one thought about this one:

Quote:

3. capslock modifier allows me to edit any take independent of its brothers. That means resizing, splitting, moving/nudging, stretching, fades, everything

I definitely want to be able to edit a take independently - absolutely. ... *but* I still want to be able to go to previous/next takes with a key command and I want to be able to work without opening up the lanes.

So I would just hope that whatever is done to the item - split/stretch etc - that the results are still "contained" by that take in that item if that makes sense.

Tallisman · 05-25-2009, 09:14 PM

semiquaver... I hear ya!
I don't want to see any of the current functionality lost. What is good is great! i just want the back end brought up...

no more "nice legs, shame about the face"
ifyaknowwhatimean

.t

semiquaver · 05-25-2009, 10:42 PM

10-4 Tali - bring up the back by all means...

airon · 05-26-2009, 04:17 AM

I'll have to add my

+1

to that. Especially item 4. Great idea to detail-edit takes with a modifier that lights up on a keyboard too.

todd160 · 05-26-2009, 04:00 PM

+1 , the way reaper handles takes now is just too confusing. having multiple items play at once in a track is a really special feature in reaper, but when it comes to doing comps all the different settings you can choose get in your way too easy. there should be sort of a simplfied mode where you can work with quickswipes for example.

pixeltarian · 05-26-2009, 04:51 PM

all I want from takes is to be able to make them go into a parent folder automatically. Also a alt+mute command that mutes all other tracks in a folder.

jplanet · 05-27-2009, 05:42 PM

If anyone is interested, you must check out the take implementation in ProTools 8. I never thought I would say this about anything by Digidesign, but comping together vocals from dozens of takes was, for the first time in my life, not only effortless, but extremely fun and productive!

The way the workflow could possibly be adapted to Reaper:

- Takes become nested tracks within a folder
- you can solo each take
- you can right click a selection and "promote to active"
- you can give each take-lane a "rating"

This way you can easily have a workflow where each take is in a distinct lane, which you can re-name anyway you like, and hear what you're doing in context...

Great example of PT8's take functionality here:

http://tinyurl.com/ppd9df

edding · 06-24-2009, 12:23 PM

I think cubendo take system is the best starting point: Simple, flexible and powerfull.
I use it all days to get the "perfect take" freely editing each take in each lane.
You can get incredible results and a powerfull workflow.

Jeffos · 07-09-2009, 08:13 AM

fiddler59 entered that in the FR tracker, thanks.

The 4 related links are:
- Capslock modifier for independent take editing: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=522
- Takes do not resize vertically nor move/jump lanes, unless I do it manually. http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=521
- Option to turn off auto-splitting of takes: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=518
- Takes do not rename unless I rename them: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=520

musicbynumbers · 07-09-2009, 09:01 AM

I'm all for these changes and wouldn't mind seeing swipe comping but please do not copy steinberg because I don't care what others say it is "god awful"

I have a question though.. how would the guys at cockos do the not splitting lanes things when recording? They split because they are new files if we overdub something and we had the feature not to split that take would have to blend with the previous takes but since it is a new take and a new file it needs to split to allow us to choose it (unless we had swipe comping)

I'm not trying to be picky just seems that this is a paradox of sorts that might be difficult to do or can someone link me to a visual rep of this that will make it make sense

fiddler59 · 07-09-2009, 09:21 AM

Try recording takes without looping.....the regions become a real mess !!

DB

musicbynumbers · 07-09-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edding

I think cubendo take system is the best starting point: Simple, flexible and powerfull.
I use it all days to get the "perfect take" freely editing each take in each lane.
You can get incredible results and a powerfull workflow.

Please NO!

I use Nuendo everyday and personally I think it's take system is extremely bad, Except for comp swiping I like the system we have mostly.

This is a good example of "what works for one does not always work for others" so we have to be careful not to change things to much.

If you use the cubase/Nuendo forum a lot you will find many threads complaining about its take system, but I'm not having a go at you, just pointing out that many don't like it.

But I'm up for swipe comping from logic and the "four laws of tallisman!" lol

unless you are talking about cubase 5 and that has changed from nuendo 4?

I bloody hope so!

Fabian · 07-09-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplanet

- Takes become nested tracks within a folder

Great idea!

Now that we have folders within folders within..., I see no problem with this. In fact, to me this looks like the easiest and fastest way to achieve a very useful take management process. It would require some way to tell Reaper to automatically create new tracks within the folder and to record there. But that would seem to be all it takes.

And... even if the take-management is not replaced with this, I'd surely would like this to be available, so at least I could use it as a take-management system. I guess many people already work in a similar way, only they do it manually. With automatic support for this, it would seem to be a great feature...

musicbynumbers · 07-09-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddler59

Try recording takes without looping.....the regions become a real mess !!

DB

I will try later, I am still new to Reaper and I'm sure some "horrors" like this still await me.

Will be back here waving my fist when they do!

Lawrence · 07-09-2009, 06:57 PM

Most of these systems will end up in a very similar place eventually.

http://www.motu.com/products/softwar...k-comping.html

Jeffos · 09-20-2009, 11:16 AM

BUUUuuummp!!

Here's a non-cosmetic thing!
(... my 2nd -but last!- real issue with reaper)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallisman

The priest obviously needs your help:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffos

- Capslock modifier for independent take editing:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=522
- Takes do not resize vertically nor move/jump lanes, unless I do it manually.
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=521
- Option to turn off auto-splitting of takes:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=518
- Takes do not rename unless I rename them:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=520

fiddler59 · 09-21-2009, 09:32 PM

still no love for improving reapers handling of takes with 3.11...... DANG !!!!!!

DB

cdoerman · 09-21-2009, 10:30 PM

+1 - especially to the no splitting!

GuitarKeyes · 11-03-2009, 12:15 PM

Please do not split takes. It makes it way to confusing to keep track of all the little bits and which one belongs to which take. My 3rd take suddenly becomes my second take?...Whats going on?

P.S. I will buy a licence as soon as this aspect of reaper gets improved.

Tallisman · 11-08-2009, 06:31 PM

b u m p . . .

nofish · 11-08-2009, 07:15 PM

Don't we have all of the original FR already when recording in free item positioning mode ? Am I missing something ?

Since I also don't like the autosplit stuff and prefer FIPM when recording, I think what we need might be a good way to do comping in FIPM, but maybe I just haven't found out.

Tallisman · 11-08-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofish

Don't we have all of the original FR already when recording in free item positioning mode ? Am I missing something ?

Since I also don't like the autosplit stuff and prefer FIPM when recording, I think what we need might be a good way to do comping in FIPM, but maybe I just haven't found out.

apples and oranges if you ask me.

keys · 11-09-2009, 02:48 PM

Hi all,
I am still trying to get my head around the best way to manage takes. PLease can you help me understand the easiest way to do the following:

1. I record a 16 bar guitar part in loop mode, getting a new take every time it goes past the beginning. Thats fine.
2. I now have say 5 takes all in the same track and audition each in turn. Fine.
3. I decide that say i want to keep bar 1 to 3 from take 1, bar 4 from take 2, bar 6 to 9 from take 4 etc.

So i select take 1 and place the cursor at bar 4 ready to split...but when I hit S, it splits all the takes and not just the selected take1.

Question: What should I be doing to split the takes please? Is this the designed functionality?

Thanks, Keys.

Fabian · 11-09-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys

Question: What should I be doing to split the takes please? Is this the designed functionality?

It is the designed functionality, you have a single item that consists of multiple takes. If you think about it, there's no problem with the way it is. Just split the item in as many places you want and then select the parts that should play. Works great!

BTW, the manual has a great explanation of this. Look up "Slice and Dice".

EDIT: One more thing; when you work this way, you probably want to turn off auto-fading at splits. It's in the prefs, somewhere.

nofish · 11-09-2009, 03:30 PM

Or, if you don't like the autosplit thing, right-click in an empty space in the track control panel and select "enable free item positioning for selected tracks". Then you can edit and split your takes seperately.

keys · 11-09-2009, 03:43 PM

Thankyou both for your input. I will try both methods. Thanks again.
Keys.

keys · 11-09-2009, 04:10 PM

Got it!
Do the splits (ouch..) choose the best parts, then select them, then 'crop to active take' followed by 'glue selected items' - job done!
Now I can cut out all those wrong notes 8-)
Thanks so much.

Broman · 11-09-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Most of these systems will end up in a very similar place eventually.

http://www.motu.com/products/softwar...k-comping.html

That looks really intuitive and fast, awesome.

Mr. Data · 11-09-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys

Got it!
Do the splits (ouch..) choose the best parts, then select them, then 'crop to active take' followed by 'glue selected items' - job done!
Now I can cut out all those wrong notes 8-)
Thanks so much.

You probably mean this?
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...49&postcount=9 (see pics at 4. and 5.)

But it doesn't solve the problem, getting this mess if recording without loop recording enabled.

-Data

Fabian · 11-10-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys

Got it!
Do the splits (ouch..) choose the best parts, then select them, then 'crop to active take' followed by 'glue selected items' - job done!
Now I can cut out all those wrong notes 8-)
Thanks so much.

That's the way!
And once you get the hang of it, it works remarkably well.
But, yes, the mess Data-man talks about, we could do without. I only record punch-in on time selection, which avoids that problem.