Reaper vs Pro-Tools editing

[Vulkanizer]

Originally Posted by evillain

Also....

i just want to use my "two finger scroll" feature to look around the edit window, like in Pro Tools. But when i scroll, it zooms in and out. This is very frustrating and I don't like this workflow.

I have made a feature request for this issue here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1518
This is also frustrating for coming from logic and seems counter-intuitive to me.

My first one of those and I hope I've followed procedure correctly.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by ChadB

Sorry, I've been searching with no luck yet. How do you get the SWS Tracklist to show on the far left of the screen like it's docked (Shane's screen shot).

View > Screen Sets

Shane

[lawrs]

Any hints on when you'll be releasing your Reaper theme Shan?

[Kitana_One]

Since you guys keep asking for this to be released as a theme I don't think you guys have gotten it yet. So I'll take a few moments to explain it to you all.

It's not currently possible to release this as a Reaper Theme.


Now here's the main reason why this can't be done.

When you create tracks in Pro Tools you have to specify it as a specific type of track (ie: Audio, Aux, Instrument, VCA Master, Master Fader, MIDI, Etc... that can only perform certain functions. Those tracks are automatically color coded.

With Reaper, any track can serve all purposes depending on what you do with it and what types of settings you use for that track.

So to have a theme that automatically colors certain types of tracks specific colors is impossible in Reaper.

What Shan was explaining earlier is that to have the tracks look the same, he had to create "Track Templates" in reaper where the tracks already had specific settings and color coding. He then assigned a keystroke macros of "Ctrl/CMD + Shift + N" (create new track keystroke in PT) to open up the "Open Track From Template" dialog in Reaper. Then he can create new tracks in Reaper that have these colors and settings already there.

But there's no way for Reaper to know what color to make a track automatically because a track is a track is a track in Reaper. It's all about what you decide to do with that track.




In regards to the menu items, when making a custom theme for reaper it allows you to change images and colors, not the menu's of the program.

Changing the menu's, adding the track show/hide bin and etc has to be done as an Extension of Reaper. Meaning that it has to be coded and programmed by someone and then installed by you to introduce that functionality to Reaper.

And unless Justin wants Reaper to be a Pro Tools clone and set it all up the exact same way, then I doubt he will ever commit it to the program and you will always have to install an extension to make these changes.



So to summarize, these are all workarounds that are currently not able to be implemented just by creating and using a theme. This is all a very creative and well thought out workaround using programming/scripting of extensions, custom track templates, hotkey macros' and much more.

To get Reaper to do all of this you would need to install the extensions, the track templates and the keystroke macros and eventually (when he's done with it) the theme that changes some of the images and other colors besides the tracks (am I missing anything here?). And I do believe Shan is saying that most of the theming and extension functionality he is working on are not 100% finished. You guys are really asking him to do the impossible. On top of that, you're still going to have to adjust to the learning curve of these new changes because it will never be 100%.


Maybe someday it'll be easier, but for now we're lucky that Justin is so kind to open up the functionality and source code of Reaper to allow us to do these things. Digidesign (and most other DAW's) have never let anyone assign their own custom keystroke macros or theme, let alone let you modify the program with extensions.



The thing that confuses me the most about all this is why would people want Reaper to be just like Pro Tools? It defeats the purpose. If that's what you want then just go buy Pro Tools. There's nothing wrong with using more than 1 DAW to do what you need. None of them will ever be 100% perfect for what we need. I go back and forth between DAW's constantly. It's called "The Right Tool For The Job".

I mean, sure... there are some things in PT that are thought out a little better, perform specific functions better or are what we're accustomed to. And having that familiarity is nice, especially when you're putting time in to adjust to a new DAW and it's learning curve. But there's a learning curve for every application, tool and process. There are also things in Reaper that are better, or Logic, or Cubendo or Live or whatever DAW.

But this is the beauty of Reaper. We have been allowed the freedom and power to make it look, do and act whatever way we want in order to create our own perfect DAW. We just have to put a little time and work into fine tuning it to look and act the way we want it to (which is what Shan, SWS and Xenakios are doing, amazingly well I might add). And really, because of this ability that we've all been given... Reaper is the closest thing we'll ever get to a single perfect DAW.


I hope all that helps explain things and put it all in a better perspective.

Cheers,
- Kitana_One

[Kitana_One]

Hope that didn't offend anyone.

That may have sounded a little like a rant, but I wasn't flaming of targeting anyone.

I just wanted to thoroughly explain the complexity of the situation to help you all understand.

Cheers,
- Kitana_One

[nofish]

Originally Posted by Kitana_One

Changing the menu's (...) has to be done as an Extension of Reaper. Meaning that it has to be coded and programmed by someone and then installed by you to introduce that functionality to Reaper.

Not true (or rather outdated): In the latest version menus and toolbars can be customized from within Reaper. These settings can be saved and thus distributed with a theme. Sure, you have to manually load them to apply but this makes menu customization a lot easier.

[Kitana_One]

Originally Posted by nofish

Not true (or rather outdated): In the latest version...

I stand corrected on that one.

It's still impossible to theme tracks without a workaround and have a track show hide bin and a few other things though.

[scottedog]

Originally Posted by Kitana_One

The thing that confuses me the most about all this is why would people want Reaper to be just like Pro Tools? It defeats the purpose.

Well for me anyway (I use PTLE), PT is crippled but very fluid, Reaper is uncrippled but not as easy to get around (e.g. 900 right click menus)SO to make Reaper feel like PT is heaven (for me).

And you are correct, nothing wrong with using more than one DAW (I do).

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Kitana_One

Since you guys keep asking for this to be released as a theme I don't think you guys have gotten it yet. So I'll take a few moments to explain it to you all.

It's not currently possible to release this as a Reaper Theme.


Now here's the main reason why this can't be done.

When you create tracks in Pro Tools you have to specify it as a specific type of track (ie: Audio, Aux, Instrument, VCA Master, Master Fader, MIDI, Etc... that can only perform certain functions. Those tracks are automatically color coded.

With Reaper, any track can serve all purposes depending on what you do with it and what types of settings you use for that track.

So to have a theme that automatically colors certain types of tracks specific colors is impossible in Reaper.

The entire state of a track gets saved in a track template. This includes mute, solo, record arm, plug-ins, plug-in settings, routing etc and yes, even track color.

What Shan was explaining earlier is that to have the tracks look the same, he had to create "Track Templates" in reaper where the tracks already had specific settings and color coding. He then assigned a keystroke macros of "Ctrl/CMD + Shift + N" (create new track keystroke in PT) to open up the "Open Track From Template" dialog in Reaper. Then he can create new tracks in Reaper that have these colors and settings already there.

But there's no way for Reaper to know what color to make a track automatically because a track is a track is a track in Reaper. It's all about what you decide to do with that track.

That's why it's better to use Track Templates as apposed to Insert New Track. If you insert a new track, you then have to mouse around changing parameters which essentially defines the "track type".

In regards to the menu items, when making a custom theme for reaper it allows you to change images and colors, not the menu's of the program.

Changing the menu's, adding the track show/hide bin and etc has to be done as an Extension of Reaper. Meaning that it has to be coded and programmed by someone and then installed by you to introduce that functionality to Reaper.

You've been using Pro Tools too long. This is REAPER which means anything goes. Creating an installer to do all this for the user is not a problem.

And unless Justin wants Reaper to be a Pro Tools clone and set it all up the exact same way, then I doubt he will ever commit it to the program and you will always have to install an extension to make these changes.

As a side note, Justin suggested to me that I do something like this almost 2 years back. It will help many long time PT users get right in there and start working with REAPER without a massive learning curve and without dropping all their previous knowledge such as shortcut commands etc.

So to summarize, these are all workarounds that are currently not able to be implemented just by creating and using a theme. This is all a very creative and well thought out workaround using programming/scripting of extensions, custom track templates, hotkey macros' and much more.

To get Reaper to do all of this you would need to install the extensions, the track templates and the keystroke macros and eventually (when he's done with it) the theme that changes some of the images and other colors besides the tracks (am I missing anything here?).

Download REAPER, download the Rea Tools installer. Done deal.

And I do believe Shan is saying that most of the theming and extension functionality he is working on are not 100% finished. You guys are really asking him to do the impossible. On top of that, you're still going to have to adjust to the learning curve of these new changes because it will never be 100%.

I will take this so far, post it, and we'll probably get it a sticky. From there, we as a community will add to it etc. REAPER is all about community contribution. I know that many of my "work arounds" will be improved by you guys with better ideas as everything evolves. That's what we're all about. Try getting even the most basic and essential features added to Pro Tools. PT 8.0 busted the horizontal scrolling on PC. I posted a script on the forum to fix it and give the users some relief. It took over 8 months for Digidsign to fix something so simple. PT LE hit 10 years old this September and still has no ADC! Not to mention, Avidesign didn't even acknowledge it's 10th anniversary. They weren't even aware of it.

Maybe someday it'll be easier, but for now we're lucky that Justin is so kind to open up the functionality and source code of Reaper to allow us to do these things. Digidesign (and most other DAW's) have never let anyone assign their own custom keystroke macros or theme, let alone let you modify the program with extensions.

Quite true. Try modifying a color in PT. I've done it and it's quite the hack job using hex editors etc. Not to mention, completely "illegal" in their eyes as you are "modifying" their precious fragile and extremely old code. Cockos allows and even encourages us to modify the code. In fact, they even tell us diehards how to do it properly. In their eyes, it's "your REAPER, do what you want with it".

The thing that confuses me the most about all this is why would people want Reaper to be just like Pro Tools? It defeats the purpose. If that's what you want then just go buy Pro Tools. There's nothing wrong with using more than 1 DAW to do what you need. None of them will ever be 100% perfect for what we need. I go back and forth between DAW's constantly. It's called "The Right Tool For The Job".

I mean, sure... there are some things in PT that are thought out a little better, perform specific functions better or are what we're accustomed to. And having that familiarity is nice, especially when you're putting time in to adjust to a new DAW and it's learning curve. But there's a learning curve for every application, tool and process. There are also things in Reaper that are better, or Logic, or Cubendo or Live or whatever DAW.

It does many things, some of which you mentioned. Being a freelance engineer, I work out of many pro studios. 100% of them use Pro Tools. I can bring my copy of REAPER on a USB thumbdrive, plug it in the main computer, and the assistant engineer will be able to use REAPER without any learning curve at all. Shortcuts, menus, look etc will all be quite familiar. This also introduces REAPER in a studio environment that is fixated on Pro Tools and also demonstrates how powerful REAPER really is. From there, if one is interested, they can dig into REAPER more and see what it has to offer under the hood.

Being a 10+ user of Pro Tools, I don't have the time or desire to learn a whole new DAW with completely different key commands, menus and nomenclature etc. I can have both REAPER and PT open, go back and forth between both apps and be able to work quite fast since all the key commands are now the same. I'm sure we've all had two apps open at the same time and by habit, hit our common PT commands in REASON that didn't respond to them.

But this is the beauty of Reaper. We have been allowed the freedom and power to make it look, do and act whatever way we want in order to create our own perfect DAW. We just have to put a little time and work into fine tuning it to look and act the way we want it to (which is what Shan, SWS and Xenakios are doing, amazingly well I might add). And really, because of this ability that we've all been given... Reaper is the closest thing we'll ever get to a single perfect DAW.

I 100% agree.

Shane

[Shan]

Originally Posted by lawrs

Any hints on when you'll be releasing your Reaper theme Shan?

I will take it so far, then post it. From there, we as a community will add to it, fill in the blanks, and make it better etc.

I have no date I can give you as I'm chipping away on this in my spare time. The "theme" part is last on the list. Key commands, menus, work flows etc are more important in my opinion.

Shane

[hearteh]

brilliant, will this work with pc?

[Shan]

Originally Posted by hearteh

brilliant, will this work with pc?

The question is, will it work on Mac?

I'm a PC user so I can attest that it definitely works on PC.

Shane

[Kainer]

NO!

...wtf?

I hope it will work on the mac aswell.

What do you use outside from reaper to get your reatools-menues working?
Something windows-based?

Will there be a smart tool like button?

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Kainer

NO!

...wtf?

I hope it will work on the mac aswell.

I don't see why most of it wouldn't.

What do you use outside from reaper to get your reatools-menues working?
Something windows-based?

The menus will port over just fine. Some PT style actions are being done using AutoHotKey which isn't cross platform. AppleScript should be more than enough to substitute for any AutoHotKey created actions.

Will there be a smart tool like button?

REAPER already has smart tool. It's always on. Go vote for this and we'll have the best smart tool out there in the business:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=892

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=56

Shane

[EricM]

[Kitana_One]

lmmfao!!!!


That's actually kinda sexy!!!




Quite slick of you too I might add. lol. That made my night.

[Kainer]

You guys rock! XD

Thanx for answering my questions Shan. I knew the "smart tool" in reaper is present all the time and with the mouse zone editor it gonna get funky anyway.
I thought something like: how exactly are you trying to copy the pt-GUI?
With same look of knobs and buttons...?

But I will wait and see. Thanx for your efforts.

What I´ve seen till now is absolutely great!

[Shan]

Originally Posted by EricM

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

Oh my...aren't we gonna have some fun in that department.

Shane

[EricM]

Originally Posted by Shan

aren't we gonna have some fun in that department.

It's a must!

[scottedog]

Originally Posted by EricM

Freakin hilarious!

[EricM]

I've put it as my splash screen and damn it's funny how
I always read it "Pro Tools" instinctively.

[Russwasherejr]

how do i downlaod this and install it? I can't get it to work i downloaded some kind of plugin and sws extension and it wont work i reallllllllllllllly want this lol