Old 09-09-2010, 04:10 AM   #1
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Default Ableton Live vs Reaper

Live is more like singing and Reaper is like writing it down on a piece of paper so you can sing it. A match made in heaven.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:42 AM   #2
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yeah - I use Ableton live for all my writing as I can write a section and move it around easily - and very quickly come up with an arrangement and then change it or run different scenarios.

Then when I'm happy I'll reroute Live into Reaper for production/mixing/mastering.

It is a great combination.
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:59 AM   #3
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Then when I'm happy I'll reroute Live into Reaper for production/mixing/mastering.
how do you do that exactly, please?
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:16 AM   #4
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I meant to say Rewire not Reroute.

I cant remember what way round you do this, but if you open Reaper and then open Ableton, create a track in Reaper and add a 'Rewire' to the effects chain. In Ableton you should get 'Reaper' listed in the list of track sends.

You can send all of your audio and midi from Ableton tracks to different channels in your reaper track and then send them on to other reaper track as you like.

Both the transports will be sync'd so hitting space in Reaper will cause both DAW's to playback in sync.

Its really handy as you do get the best of both worlds.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:25 AM   #5
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I also find Live better for composing, SOME KINDS OF MUSIC, althought the lack of things like Patterns and step sequencer or even Blocks/Session dont make Reaper any better in many cases too, IMO.

Reaper as a mixer/recorder is probably the best thing out there.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:27 AM   #6
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hey, does anyone use Live lite rewired to Reaper so as to bypass Lite's limitations?
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:49 AM   #7
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dazzathedrummer, thanks man
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:43 AM   #8
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dazzathedrummer, i've just tried to do it exactly how you described and bam!... FAIL!!

- there are no additional outputs created in Ableton track outs
- there are no additional inputs in Reaper to pick the feed from Ableton
- when running both applications at the sime time Reaper MIDI inputs "could not be opened". in Ableton, however, they are fine and dandy.

could you please help figure it out?

UPD: i figured the drill. you add a rewire plugin BEFORE launching ableton. unfortunately, in rewire slave mode midi outputs, control surfaces, max for live, vst and vstis are disabled.

all in all, you can get something going in live with all the bells and whistles, save, exit, then fire up live as a slave and feed the tracks into reaper. defenitely faster than rendering out tracks flat out!

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Old 09-09-2010, 09:52 AM   #9
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For electronic music Live is good, however no take facilities so its a pain if you sing, play guitar or do some organic recording. Of course mix etc is far better in Reaper.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:31 AM   #10
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For Live performance/stage use, rapid songwriting, instantly gratifying creativity and composing most forms of electronic music, Ableton is king.

Every other area Reaper wins in my opinion.


There are a few features that Ableton has, like Global Quantization (see my signature and VOTE!) and the session view, that are totally revolutionary once you wrap your head around them.

I love Reaper to death and really hope v.4 shows some movement in this direction because I'd really like to use one DAW for everything...
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:14 PM   #11
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I'm totally loving composing/writing in Live, I even got a launchpad which is immense fun with Ableton Live. Drum Racks is amazing & very easy to use, some of the fx are pretty good too. Session view is were the real power of Live shines through but Arrange view is very limited & I'm much happier mixing in Reaper. Automation is much better in Reaper as well.

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UPD: i figured the drill. you add a rewire plugin BEFORE launching ableton. unfortunately, in rewire slave mode midi outputs, control surfaces, max for live, vst and vstis are disabled.

all in all, you can get something going in live with all the bells and whistles, save, exit, then fire up live as a slave and feed the tracks into reaper. defenitely faster than rendering out tracks flat out!
You should try Rearoute, you can run vst/vsti's in Live no problem with Rearoute. You just make sure you install it when installing Reaper, you can then select Rearoute in Live as an asio audio device. Then its just a matter of selecting the rearoute channels as the inputs of the tracks in Reaper. I've tried it & it works but I'm not sure how well it performs with larger projects.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:32 AM   #12
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hey, does anyone use Live lite rewired to Reaper so as to bypass Lite's limitations?
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you meaning that by rewiring live lite to Reaper, live lite becomes the full version? I wouldn't think this would be the case, but you never know. The reason I ask is that I have a copy of live lite 8 kicking around somewhere (it came with my midi keyboard), and I wouldn't mind investigating this.

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Old 09-10-2010, 05:45 AM   #13
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As far as I can recall - Lite does not allow export or saving.

It doesn't have rewire either - so you cant rewire to Reaper in order to save your audio.

It is well worth the price of the upgrade though.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post


There are a few features that Ableton has, like Global Quantization (see my signature and VOTE!) and the session view, that are totally revolutionary once you wrap your head around them.

I love Reaper to death and really hope v.4 shows some movement in this direction because I'd really like to use one DAW for everything...
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:33 AM   #15
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YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
I'd rather have two separate pieces of software that both specialise in their own area of excellence.

I think if either tried to be the one stop solution, it would be weaker overall as it would either dilute the capacity of the developers or more developers would be recruited and we'd end up with an anonymous corporate monster that would be harder to communicate with.

Horses for courses as we say.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:13 AM   #16
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As far as I can recall - Lite does not allow export or saving.

It doesn't have rewire either - so you cant rewire to Reaper in order to save your audio.

It is well worth the price of the upgrade though.
Just been looking at this:

http://www.ableton.com/pages/live_8/...rt/live_lite_8

Looks like there is rewire in live lite 8. So, I guess my question is: would there be any benefit in installing this to use alongside Reaper? Does anyone know if there are any useful features to be had from this lite version?

Thanks
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:53 AM   #17
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You should try Rearoute, you can run vst/vsti's in Live no problem with Rearoute. You just make sure you install it when installing Reaper, you can then select Rearoute in Live as an asio audio device. Then its just a matter of selecting the rearoute channels as the inputs of the tracks in Reaper
I've done this in the past as well. It works.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:00 AM   #18
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Just been looking at this:

http://www.ableton.com/pages/live_8/...rt/live_lite_8

Looks like there is rewire in live lite 8. So, I guess my question is: would there be any benefit in installing this to use alongside Reaper? Does anyone know if there are any useful features to be had from this lite version?

Thanks
it depends what you're looking for - I think you can download a free version to try out.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:52 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dazzathedrummer View Post
I'd rather have two separate pieces of software that both specialise in their own area of excellence.

I think if either tried to be the one stop solution, it would be weaker overall as it would either dilute the capacity of the developers or more developers would be recruited and we'd end up with an anonymous corporate monster that would be harder to communicate with.

Horses for courses as we say.
Well, id rather it all in one app, namely Reaper, cos then my 60bucks will go a shitload further than the nearly 900 needed for Live8suite, then the extra 200+bucks for the next upgrade, when Im still on my 60buck plan with another whole number release up my sleeve.

I dont want Reaper to be Ableton, I just want features to that effect adapted into Reaper at some stage down the line. Global Quantise isnt asking for much, and even Sonar has adapted a session/matrix view which is still being perfected.

i have all the faith in the world of Justin and Co being able to handle such a task without the need of extra devs or turning into a corporate monster. Reaper? i sure hope not. thats the reason im here.

Ableton is really good and all, but fuck me if it isnt stupidly priced.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzathedrummer View Post
I'd rather have two separate pieces of software that both specialise in their own area of excellence.

I think if either tried to be the one stop solution, it would be weaker overall as it would either dilute the capacity of the developers or more developers would be recruited and we'd end up with an anonymous corporate monster that would be harder to communicate with.

Horses for courses as we say.
Guitar pedals have global quantize, I'm sure Reaper can handle it, and I haven't heard too many Sonar users complaining how everything fell apart after they copied the session view.

For me anyway, those two features represent the core of what makes Ableton so inspiring to work with and why 95 times out of 100, its the DAW being used on stage.

The way I see it, Reaper's 'area of excellence' is putting its own twist on the best features from existing DAWs. And as it stands now, Ableton Live is untapped territory...
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:47 PM   #21
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For me anyway, those two features represent the core of what makes Ableton so inspiring to work with and why 95 times out of 100, its the DAW being used on stage.
this!
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:30 AM   #22
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i think it be cool if reaper would do a session view, and a browser ( loops , samples , etc. ) menu, but the ability to disable it or hide it etc, and also integrate the launchpad. its fun to play with and inspiring, but i get better latency and stababilty in reaper, ( windows 7 - 64bit )
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:39 AM   #23
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I've just recently bought into Reaper as registered user, after years of using Live. Frankly, I prefer to work with a more 'traditional' sequencer. I don't play live at all, so Reaper is a much better fit for me. I think it's a great design, very clean and intuitive. Amazingly stable and light on the CPU, too!
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #24
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And when Ableton is stable on my PC and doesn't need me to send in 6 bug reports every (at least to..) day, I'll be a bit happier.
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:08 PM   #25
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i think it be cool if reaper would do ... a browser ( loops , samples , etc. ) menu, but the ability to disable it or hide it etc...
In the bottom left corner theres a tab marked Media Explorer. U can audition and drag'n'drop anything from here. U can also undock it or hide it with a single click.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:34 PM   #26
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@nym: yeah I got a focusrite saffire pro 24 dsp a couple of months ago which came with Ableton Live Lite and I decided to check out Live. Both DAW's have really good features that the other one doesn't, so I'm trying to get Live to slave rewire under Reaper. I just got it to work. So I'm pretty excited about that. But I got crazy latency so i'm trying to figure that out right now. Though it might not really be a problem for me.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:36 AM   #27
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Well, id rather it all in one app, namely Reaper, cos then my 60bucks will go a shitload further than the nearly 900 needed for Live8suite, then the extra 200+bucks for the next upgrade, when Im still on my 60buck plan with another whole number release up my sleeve.
Yeah, Ableton TCO really is through the roof. Cool software thought, just can't justify the cost, even with the rebate as a lite owner.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:31 AM   #28
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max for live makes ableton a special creature. The max for live user library is insanely cool as well ( www.maxforlive.com ) there is so much genius stuff happening and I would be proud to be a part of that community.. Once ableton gets its user interface out of the gulag I will be happy to use it... but it never will I dont think.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:59 AM   #29
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I got a "free" version of live with my old EMU 1212m. maybe I should finally try it....
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:12 PM   #30
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I got a "free" version of live with my old EMU 1212m. maybe I should finally try it....
Take a look at the videos on their site.
http://www.ableton.com/movies

Some more video goodies.
http://abletonlife.com/10-of-the-bes...utorial-videos

Great software. I use it and Reaper a lot.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:05 PM   #31
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Take a look at the videos on their site.
http://www.ableton.com/movies

Some more video goodies.
http://abletonlife.com/10-of-the-bes...utorial-videos

Great software. I use it and Reaper a lot.
I've been looking at several DAWs in the past week. Namely, StudioOne, Sonar X1, and Abelton Live. I'm pretty set with REAPER as a recording and mixing application, but as far as composing and writing, I'm looking for something more. I have a feeling Ableton Live will be the best choice for composing, arranging, and songwriting. Will probably give the demo a whirl soon.

For the Ableton users in here, what would be 1 thing you like and dislike about it?
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:48 PM   #32
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For the Ableton users in here, what would be 1 thing you like and dislike about it?
i love the global 'touch n go' automation!

I loathe the UI for recording and editing. Too small and busy and compressed. Squinty squinty.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:24 PM   #33
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Guitar and vocal jamming and songwriting is great in Live, even without a proper 'takes' feature. I'd love that, but just creating a new track is plenty easy. I love being able to taylor-make a short drum loop, put a guitar or bass passage over that of any length, add a lead line, vocal or whatever and never really have to worry about setting loop points, stretching/looping takes and so on. I love how that all happens automagically.

If, however, I'm recording a song that is already, for the most part, written, then Reaper rules the roost. I know where I'm going and Reaper stays out of the way and then helps in spades when needed.

#1 LIKE: Hard to say, but being able to make one track '80bpm' and the next one '160bpm' is great for racking up a ton of completely different guitar/musical ideas in one single project. If I later choose to expand on one, I delete the other takes and save it under a new name. Sometimes it's fun to just plug in, load up some loops or ezDrummer or whatever and jam away, keeping whatever I think might be of interest later on. I don't have to name a new project each time or anything. Just one, "Guitar ideas", "Lead practice", "hooks" or whatever. I also love the effectiveness and simplicity of some of the Ableton fx, compressor, eq and limiter especially.

#1 DISLIKE: Focus, from one area of the program to the next seems a bit flakey to me. The upshot for me is that sometimes the key-command I want works and sometimes it doesn't, and it's not always immediately clear why.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:14 PM   #34
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Installing Ableton Suite 8 30-day trial right now. Let's see what all this hubbub is about.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:04 PM   #35
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If you're into MIDI right? I use Reaper because I record with it just like I used to with my tape machines. I play guitar/bass and drums. The digital drum kit I play is the only thing I use the MIDI in Reaper for. Everynow and then I might lay dowm some pads with keys via MIDI...
That's how I work as well.
Old school, just like the good old days
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:16 PM   #36
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Let's see what all this hubbub is about.
Global quantization, session view, warp markers and global record.

However, don't get too used to rapidly creating, mixing and arranging without ever needing to stop the music (or the music needing to stop), because after that, 'the old way' starts to feel 'clunky' real fast.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #37
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Global quantization, session view, warp markers and global record.

However, don't get too used to rapidly creating, mixing and arranging without ever needing to stop the music (or the music needing to stop), because after that, 'the old way' starts to feel 'clunky' real fast.
Why would you ever go back to the 'old way' then?

In all seriousness, I'm getting pretty excited about Ableton. I didn't get very far last night as I decided to not plug in my MIDI keyboard(I'm currently making a bunch of DIY cables, so my desk is littered with equipment) but I think I'll have to if I really want to get a feel for it.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:53 PM   #38
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DeyBwah: Yeah, you should! Live is (to me) all about beatmaking, being able to quickly turn ideas of programmed music into songs and that. Mixing, not so much... but i haven't used it since v7.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:00 PM   #39
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DeyBwah: Yeah, you should! Live is (to me) all about beatmaking, being able to quickly turn ideas of programmed music into songs and that. Mixing, not so much... but i haven't used it since v7.
That's great... because I just ordered Maschine last week primarily for that, making grooves, beats, arrangements!

I'm in scientist-mode right now, giving Ableton a try, then once Maschine arrives, I'll see if I even need Ableton.. as it looks like Maschine's software has similar features to Ableton. ie. Scenes, loop-based arranging/writing, etc..
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:06 PM   #40
strunkdts
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i fired up Ableton lastnite, inspired by this thread, and i gotta say, i wrote some really bent beats really quickly.

If Reaper ever gets a scene launching matrix setup it will be King! And warp markers, and global quantise, and intelligent automation, and .........
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