Old 03-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #321
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Which is exactly why the FR voting thing is utter crap, all it does is give some users the wrong idea that they actually have a say in what will come next, they don't, they never have and they never will, Reaper development is very very random (Whatever takes the devs fancy at any given moment) and will probably always be that way.
obviously the quantity of users that want a feature is taken into account when devs decide what to put effort on changing. but some features are easier than others to do, so they require more people to care, or sometimes it is something that has to be long term. sometimes it is just not feasible given the structure of reaper and how much time it would take to make the feature. which is exactly why you and your post are utter crap.

show some respect. i feel like blowing up in your face and just ranting forever, and it wouldn't be nice, when i hear people make posts like this one. i'm really holding back alot.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:39 AM   #322
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We both know that is silliness too you as much as I know that all it does is give users some idea that this will come next and ammunition to use in the forum to whine about blah blah having so many votes so why isn't it implemented.

Their is zero usefulness to any company using this kind of system unless they don't ever read the forum, which would give them the same info, on top of this it is very bad form to think that even a small percentage of users are actually bothering with the forum and even more so voting
It is no gauge whatsoever of what all of Reapers users want, it is just a gauge of how many people can be bothered to vote, nothing more nothing less
you could say that about any democratic system. i am assuming you live in a democracy, and therefore whoever runs your country is just the person people who cared to vote got. well maybe then, the solution is for everyone to vote lol. you're saying how the voting is useless, and teh solution is in the power of the voters not the people counting the votes.

without the voting system, devs would just have a bunch of features they would need to sift through in order to find ones that they arbitrarily decide they want to implement, which would take a while.

with a voting system, they have a short list. they can therefore more efficiently look through the features people want, and then decide based on many factors which features they can and will implement in which order and in which timeframe.

do you have a company? no. i am sure you don't. so don't go around talking like you know anything telling other people how to run theirs.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #323
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nah, the voting is pretty lame but feel free to "blow up", i'll get the popcorn.

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obviously the quantity of users that want a feature is taken into account when devs decide what to put effort on changing. but some features are easier than others to do, so they require more people to care, or sometimes it is something that has to be long term. sometimes it is just not feasible given the structure of reaper and how much time it would take to make the feature. which is exactly why you and your post are utter crap.

show some respect. i feel like blowing up in your face and just ranting forever, and it wouldn't be nice, when i hear people make posts like this one. i'm really holding back alot.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:39 PM   #324
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The FRs are the easiest way, so far, to retrieve requests the users made. The other forum sections are not. There's plenty of room for improvement, but it's what we have right now. The other method is to be where the devs are, have their attention and inform them of a need that they, right there and there can fix for you. That's a big bit of chance, and we see lots of people trying and coming away disapointed as well as they casually mention their big requests(or this one). For little stuff that does work sometimes.

But let's assume that the developers better at gauging what to implement at what time, at least most of the time. That priviledge is for those who do the work after all.

Back on topic gents, I'm looking at the possibility of improving the actual Area Selection request to better frame the whole method of area selection. Instead of describing what it is, which by now most folks will know, it's probably better to describe what the stuff one can do with it is right up front, and even include the Mouse Modifier Override Sets as an easier way to introduce Area Selection to general use.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:15 PM   #325
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nah, the voting is pretty lame but feel free to "blow up", i'll get the popcorn.
i'm not that sort. or at least i try not to be. i just want to let you know, that i feel like putting you in your place with that attitude. but i don't wish that upon you. i just wish for you not to be such an ass.

you are fearless. i don't think you want to get into a verbal battle with me. you probably think that's hilarious and that you could make me seem foolish. i am fine with that.

so, i'll spare you from myself, and you can continue to think i've not done you a favour.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:24 AM   #326
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:29 AM   #327
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Another month, another bump.

Anyone who wants this to happen, I invite you to explain in this thread, why you want it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:39 AM   #328
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This part of reaper is such a strange difference coming from any other software. Please guys, at least start by making it so that when you select time there is no marquee, that's weird. Also, it doesn't have to be all non-contiguous right away, just start by the basic selection method of, say, pro tools. That style for time/partial item selection would be a much more elegant way.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:52 AM   #329
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This part of reaper is such a strange difference coming from any other software. Please guys, at least start by making it so that when you select time there is no marquee, that's weird. Also, it doesn't have to be all non-contiguous right away, just start by the basic selection method of, say, pro tools. That style for time/partial item selection would be a much more elegant way.
I disagree

This behavior (like in Ableton Live) is very efficient to quickly slice and duplicate items relative to time selection. If it will be separated it will break almost all my editing macros.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:24 AM   #330
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Seems like you're in minority, then


Lack of Area selection and selection cursor is one big letdown of Reaper.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:32 AM   #331
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It doesn't matter

If i have my opinion on something i will say it

How would you do if you have something that suits you 100% and someone will try to break it? (i'm not point to someone specific, just in general)
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:39 AM   #332
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Im not trying to be like a jackass but i don't experience any problems with Reaper workflow and i don't want to reorganize and relearn my workflow if something will be changed to other people needs

And i'm sure there are thousands of users (who are not on this forum) will feel like me if this happens

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Old 04-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #333
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You have nothing to worry about Viente.

This is supposed to be something that cannot interfer with methods already present.

In fact, an idea was put forward to let people switch between mouse modifier sets rather quickly, so one could for example have the basic set, as defined in the preferences currently, and then activate a set that takes over certain mouse modifiers until you deactivate that mouse modifier set, or activate another.

The whole area selection method is born from experience, and all the folks that are asking for it and all the folks who agree but haven't voted yet, want this to complement Reaper editing features.

Reaper editing features are in fact pretty darn good. This is something that will improve it for people who do want to use it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:57 AM   #334
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I don't think devs will break our current time selection behavior if they implement area selection. They actually use the application as well and I'm sure they wouldn't remove something they're used to like many users.

I can't really add anything to the thread, airon. It's been said and covered many times already from different perspectives.

+1 to my most wanted FR, again.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:00 AM   #335
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Ok guys if it won't break current workflow i'm with you
My post was against to separate time selection and marquee
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:53 AM   #336
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If you don't want this, please, watch a YouTube video or something on the pro tools selector tool. This is exactly what I would love to see as a start for this. The multiple non-contiguous selections in the FR are secondary to me. PT editing is way better at this, and is a model to copy and then if resources are free, go beyond it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:00 PM   #337
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i've used Pro Tools for a long time

And Reaper model suits me much better
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:15 PM   #338
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The area selection model is meant to facilitate edit groups in a similar way that Protools does.

The request for edit groups and that for area selection are the two top-voted requests Reaper has ever had. They account for almost 900 votes together.

Even though all of us who want this use Reaper very effectively, this is just a missing piece in the editing arsenal that we know works towards solving some of our needs.

That those that don't need it have nothing to worry about.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #339
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In complete seriousness, am I missing some advantage of the reaper method? I mean, I can't even see which items are selected because the overlay covers all tracks.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #340
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In complete seriousness, am I missing some advantage of the reaper method? I mean, I can't even see which items are selected because the overlay covers all tracks.
With all respect i don't really know what you are talking about... Never had such problems
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:22 PM   #341
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i mean isn't it cool to work with time selection & marquee like this?

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Old 04-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #342
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i mean isn't it cool to work with time selection & marquee like this?
What makes you think that kind of thing wouldn't be possible and just as easy even if the proposed editing FRs eradicated the time selection and marquee? And given that they're not proposing that eradication ...
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:32 PM   #343
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What makes you think that kind of thing wouldn't be possible and just as easy even if the proposed editing FRs eradicated the time selection and marquee? And given that they're not proposing that eradication ...
As i said it will be PITA to remake all this 100+ custom actions i have with time selection & marquee if behavior will be changed...I just don't see the point. Don't fix it if it ain't broke
But as i said i don't mind anything if my current workflow behavior will be intact
I guess everybody hates me now who voted for this FR, but...
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:34 PM   #344
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I guess everybody hates me now who voted for this FR, but...
haha, not in the slightest. Just stop talking about it in case more people get worried unduly
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:35 PM   #345
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haha, not in the slightest. Just stop talking about it in case more people get worried unduly
hehe
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:50 PM   #346
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i mean isn't it cool to work with time selection & marquee like this?

I don't see what you're trying to show us. I want what you were doing, but with more accuracy (get rid of the marquee when selecting time), and better visuals (show a partially selected item as being partially selected, and put the color overlay only over the selected tracks, not everything from top to bottom).
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:34 PM   #347
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I don't see what you're trying to show us. I want what you were doing, but with more accuracy (get rid of the marquee when selecting time), and better visuals (show a partially selected item as being partially selected, and put the color overlay only over the selected tracks, not everything from top to bottom).
no offence, but in my book, this video shows this fr as resolved. ya, ok, it doesn't have the esthetics you might want, but whatever. there are so many other things reaper needs first.

i mean with reaper it is important to prioritize what you want to get done. and imo, having something look a little nicer, is way way down that list. first there's a whole bunch of actually functionality that we need.

but that video was basically this. not as beautiful, but functionality wise. it's very accurate as well, you can have it snapp, you can zoom in quickly for better precision if you want.

it was really a surprise to me when the guy that didn't want this functionality so it doesn't mess up with his workflow, was the guy that already had this functionality.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:21 PM   #348
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Sure, you have a point. Put another way though, a person getting paid to do speedy editing who has used pro tools wouldn't want to use this as it is. Oh well.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:37 PM   #349
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Sure, you have a point. Put another way though, a person getting paid to do speedy editing who has used pro tools wouldn't want to use this as it is. Oh well.
I've used it but who said i liked it?
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:46 PM   #350
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and put the color overlay only over the selected tracks, not everything from top to bottom).
this is +1
but with the ability to have custom action to select time on all tracks (like now). This is essential for some macros
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:03 AM   #351
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I still can't understand - WHY do you think any current actions would change with the implementation of this feature? They WOULD NOT.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:08 AM   #352
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Sure, you have a point. Put another way though, a person getting paid to do speedy editing who has used pro tools wouldn't want to use this as it is. Oh well.
ok, you have a point, but then such a person should just buy pro tools.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:10 AM   #353
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I still can't understand - WHY do you think any current actions would change with the implementation of this feature? They WOULD NOT.
what's missing from how he is doing things? that looks like the selection cursor you're looking for, but maybe less beautiful is all.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:16 AM   #354
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That's the problem - it doesn't LOOK like a selection cursor. It looks like item selection plus time selection plus marquee. How about streamlining that visually, Cockos?
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:44 AM   #355
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That's the problem - it doesn't LOOK like a selection cursor. It looks like item selection plus time selection plus marquee. How about streamlining that visually, Cockos?
you don't think there are other things cockos could be doing with their time that's more useful to us than making your selection cursor tool prettier?

cockos works this way. they give us the functionality while costing the least amount of work to them. making it all pretty i do believe would substatially increase the amount of time it would take them to program this. because on the one hand they can take existing infrastructure and modify how it behaves, and the other way, they have to build new things altogether.

idk, imo if you need this so much than how it is now should suffice. if i were you i'd push much more for midi stuff. in fact, i can't even believe that you're in this thread saying anything at all about this feature because as it is missing is the look you want, and there's a whole world of midi that needs work.

they don't have infinite time over there. they don't get more time the more we complain. you have to choose your battles. would you prefer they spend time doing this or working on midi? i'm going to assume you would say midi. i'm hoping you would say midi. everything cockos changes is something different they didn't change. when you post and ask for changes for one thing, you're doing the opposite for other features you want.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:11 AM   #356
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ok, you have a point, but then such a person should just buy pro tools.
This is the most tiring thing to hear. There is nothing wrong with wanting something improved. I have Pro Tools, it sucks with VI's. Todays environment for me requires good VI performance and good editing of midi AND audio AND being able to quickly go back and tweak a synth patch. That's why I always rail on this and full-track editing. This has the potential to be the killer DAW.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:24 AM   #357
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@Sound asleep:

You're completely missing he point of this FR. Please read the OP and understand it. It's not about "the cursor", it's about having non-contiguous selections across tracks among other things. The thread should have a different title.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:35 AM   #358
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This is the most tiring thing to hear. There is nothing wrong with wanting something improved. I have Pro Tools, it sucks with VI's. Todays environment for me requires good VI performance and good editing of midi AND audio AND being able to quickly go back and tweak a synth patch. That's why I always rail on this and full-track editing. This has the potential to be the killer DAW.
professionals that make lots of money producing hits use pro tools. so the performance of VIs i'm sure can't be that bad.

there are professional grade DAWs that people use to quickly produce for cash. there are different ones with different features.

reaper is a inexpensive solution, it is going to look less pretty, it is going to have less features. the developers won't be able to meet all of our needs. it is what it is. sure, everyone wants improvement everybody wants to see reaper get better, but imo, living with something that doesn't look clean and amazing is one of those things you have to live with if you want to use reaper. the plugins will look ugly, the menus will be terrible, you will have to tweak it and do many modifications yourself. there will be alot of setup, and it won't always look beautiful. that's reaper.

there are many DAWs on the market. you have to choose which one best suits you and your style. if you are a working producer, and you have deadlines, and you want to get things done quickly, then maybe reaper is not the best for you.

me personally, almost everytime i go to use reaper, i end up tweaking it slightly. i'll customize it a little here and there. i don't mind that. i like that. i can get it workign how i want it. if i had deadlines to meet though, that would not be for me. i wouldn't want to spend time arranging my menus, i wouldn't want to spend time building action macros to get a certain functionality. i'd want it all in the box. reaper does do some things better than other DAWs straight out of the box, but nothing will be perfect for everyone. it just won't be.

if you want reaper, then you want something customizeable, you want something that won't always look pretty, you want something that will, with some elbow grease, work as you want it to work in most cases. but you can't expect it to have all of the features of other DAWs.

there are many ways that reaper is inferior to other DAWs. for me, functionality is the most pressing thing. the devs aren't superhuman. they have limited time and resources. if they have set reaper up so that you can get the functionality you want, although it may not be pretty, well then that's done, that's the spirit of reaper. that's what it's all about. doing what we need it to do simply, ya, it's kind of like a botch it job in a way, it's a little riggiddy, but that's reaper. that's how it is. if you can't live with that, then reaper is not for you. or if there are other things about reaper you can't live without, and reaper is for you, then you have to accept things like this. that's the business model, that's how it is. there are many other features that need implementation that need work and improvement. many things that don't work at all, that there is no way to do it, not just that don't look as pretty as one would hope.

ask for reaper to improve, ask for certain features, but you can't expect the sort of product you'd pay 600$ for. if you're producing for cash and time matters for you, then you should spend the cash on something more suitable to you. if not, then you are using a 60$ DAW, and you should expect certain shortcomings like this. that's just the way it is.

maybe you never use midi, but imo midi is a much more pressing problem with reaper. making the selection tool prettier, for me, falls way doown the things to do list, especially with how much time it would take, just for looks.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:38 AM   #359
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@Sound asleep:

You're completely missing he point of this FR. Please read the OP and understand it. It's not about "the cursor", it's about having non-contiguous selections across tracks among other things. The thread should have a different title.
although it is not shown as such in licecap, i am pretty sure what is shown in licecap will work accross tracks, as the marquee will select any items beneath it, and the time selection will cut accross tracks as long as those items are selected, at least i do believe that's how it's been programmed.

it is a simple solution to something that would otherwise be very complex to implement. that's the reaper way.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:43 AM   #360
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although it is not shown as such in licecap, i am pretty sure what is shown in licecap will work accross tracks, as the marquee will select any items beneath it, and the time selection will cut accross tracks as long as those items are selected.

it is a simple solution to something that would otherwise be very complex to implement. that's the reaper way.
Again, please read the OP

By the way, this Feature Request is the most voted (over 540 votes) and by reading tons of threads daily, it is deeply missed by many.

Here yo can read, in detail, what's this all about: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=122
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