arp!0 - groovy midi arp

[bang]

Originally Posted by jnif

Is it possible that auto-save could mess up the play position?[...]The play position just seems to get to incorrect position quite randomly.

very astute jnif! i think that's exactly what is happening. i've noticed Reaper seems to invoke the @serialize code to save presets more often than i expected. but i hadn't made the connection to "randomly" saved position. i will remove the logic to save seq positions on save for the next release, coming r.s.n.

Originally Posted by jnif

I think this is OK behaviour. But there seems to be problems in some cases even when loop length and arp sequence lengths are identical. For example if I have two long MIDI notes (a two note pad chord). Then I playback a loop in the middle of that chord so that those two notes are sent to arp!0. In this case the first loop round is different than the subsequent loop iterations. It sounds like the order of the two notes changes in the end of the first loop round, but still the order is not changed in the "notes" row in the bottom of arp!0.

is the number of sequence steps odd and the number of notes even, or vise versa? does this happen only the first time through? does your loop in the middle of the sus'd notes start on a beat boundary? there is some tricky business here because Reaper is sending noteoff and noteons when the loop cycles, but the noteoffs/ons don't seem to happen at exactly the "right" times if my fuzzy memory is right. you could try turning off the clear notes on host seek option in the settings pane. and, what behavior are you hoping for?

enjoy! /dan

[bang]

Originally Posted by jnif

In this case the first loop round is different than the subsequent loop iterations.

looking at this a bit more, i am seeing that when you initially start a loop in the middle of sus'd notes it picks up the first note on the first beat. subsequent loopbacks after that don't get the first note on the beat. i'll look into this. but as i said, Reaper may not be delivering the noteoffs/ons to arp!0 so that it is possible to get it just right. i worked pretty hard to get this to work when starting playback. so if it's not working on loopback it might just not work. we'll see... enjoy! /dan

[bang]

hello all! new release! this primarily adds the ability to specify the tick time as either synchronized or absolute. and the old sync'd fractions can now be scaled. perfect for Reichian phase music and wind chime emulations! :^) and more variants and a midi_bus setting as mentioned above. you will need 4.22pre2 or later for these, or any windows Reaper for more variants. also a few tweaks, including the fix for "random" resets of saved seq positions.

the tick time setting is more powerful/complex in this release. i will append the relevent bit of documentation below. mainly you will see a scale slider below the tick (was sync) fractions. if you don't touch this arp!0 operates as before. you can also right-click the "tick" label to use an unsynchronized absolute time for the tick. there are still fractions in the dropdown, but these only set the range of the slider. i'm quite interested in how well this scheme works for folks. so if you're inclinded feedback is welcome.

one more note concerning the recent Js bugfixes: i doubt the "too much code in parens" fix will make it into a ReaJS update very soon. alas, that is the main limiting factor for many potential gui changes. since i really want to support ReaJS, this means there is still a damper on future gui enhancements to some extent.

i'm off on a road trip for a few days. will have the dev computer along, but time will be somewhat limited. hope this release works well for folks.

enjoy! /dan

release notes:
- hilight edited step when showing dropdown
- limit output range of midi note numbers
- scaled, absolute or synchronized tick times
- midi bus setting
- bump max variants to 12
- remove save seq play positions when preset is saved

tick docs:

tick: sets the time interval between arp steps according to host tempo or 
  absolute time.  tick has two modes: synchronized or absolute, which are
  selected on the setting pane.  or right-click the "tick" label to toggle
  between these modes.  in sync mode, the tick time is relative to the host
  tempo, and displayed as a fraction of a whole note.  in this mode arp!0
  syncs to exact beats when the host is playing or recording.  click the
  sync fraction to show a dropdown menu of fractions and a scale slider.
  click any fraction to select it.  the scale slider allows sync'd ticks
  that are not exact fractions.  it shows a scaling factor from 0.75x to
  2.0x, with a midpoint line at 1x.  text at the left end of the slider
  shows the current scale factor, or "exact" if scaling is not in effect. it
  also shows the tick time in parenthesis. click in the slider to set a
  scale factor.  right-click a fraction to disable scaling.  the sync
  fraction on the tick button will have a "+" or "-" suffix if scaled
  greater or less than the exact fraction.  in absolute mode the tick time
  is displayed as a decimal number of seconds, and the tick label will have
  a "~" suffix.  click the number to show a slider and a grid of fractions.
  text at the left end of the slider shows the tick time in seconds.  click
  the slider to select a tick interval.  the fractions select the range of
  the slider relative to the current host tempo, again from 0.75x to 2.0x of
  the fraction of a whole note selected.  click these fractions to change
  the range of the slider, but not change the current tick time. 
  right-click a fraction to change the slider range and select the 1x value
  on the slider as a tick time.  shift-click the tick button to for a
  high-resolution slider with a range of +/- 10% of the current value.

[copacetic]

Mr bang, you are going to have to make some stellar documentation for this thing (illustrated, preferably, with bright colours, and few words), because it's starting to get pretty complex, to my mind.

Your latest posts seem to have all been in Greek.

[bang]

Originally Posted by copacetic

Mr bang, you are going to have to make some stellar documentation for this thing (illustrated, preferably, with bright colours, and few words), because it's starting to get pretty complex, to my mind. Your latest posts seem to have all been in Greek.

yeah. yeah. i know. dir types and the tick options did get a bit out of hand. but hopefully all the complex power user stuff is optional. and while the quick reference is very brief, i think if you sat down in front of arp!0 and read through it it would make more sense. i've tried to be clear and to the point anyway. pictures and tutorial videos would be better. maybe someday. i have thought about doing a few screencasts. i bet that's harder than it seems. :^)

questions always welcome! enjoy! /dan

ps- thought i'd got rid of all the Greek letters a while back. darn!

[bang]

Originally Posted by copacetic

[...]it's starting to get pretty complex, to my mind.

one more thing: i am ok with powerful things being somewhat complex to use. but it is very important to me that the basics are very simple and easy. so, have the recent power-user bits made the simple things more complex for you copacetic? anyone? big tia! /dan

[copacetic]

Originally Posted by bang

one more thing: i am ok with powerful things being somewhat complex to use. but it is very important to me that the basics are very simple and easy. so, have the recent power-user bits made the simple things more complex for you copacetic? anyone? big tia! /dan

I haven't actually been using the latest few, as my music PC is in pieces, with the room it's in being painted, when I get connected again, I will have a look, certainly.

[Cresta]

omg it's awesome o,O
thanks so much for it!

hoping for a guide and for ppl sharing presets :P

[IXix]

Originally Posted by bang

have the recent power-user bits made the simple things more complex?

Nah, it's pretty intuitive I think.

[sinkmusic]

Yes, it's a tweak-to-learn machine anyway

(But a PDF manual could indeed make things easier, or, at least, help users to get into "a deeper level of total knowledge" )

I have tried to open the manual.txt file, but it was a messy block of text in NotePad : is it supposed to be opened in a specific program ?

[DarkStar]

^^^^
I get that too - copy it all and paste it into Wordpad.

[sinkmusic]

Thanks, Darkstar !

[bang]

Originally Posted by sinkmusic

Yes, it's a tweak-to-learn machine anyway

that's the arp!0 spirit! :^)

Originally Posted by sinkmusic

(But a PDF manual could indeed make things easier, or, at least, help users to get into "a deeper level of total knowledge" )

"pdf manual" as in "quickref in pdf format"? or as in "with pictures and more in depth explainations"? i think if i go more in depth i'll try the screencast route first. clear words, even w/ pix, are hard to do well. i think the additional sonic & live action dimensions of a screencast would communicate more w/ less. dunno though. haven't ever done any of those. has anyone else? any good mac tools for this?

Originally Posted by sinkmusic

I have tried to open the manual.txt file, but it was a messy block of text in NotePad : is it supposed to be opened in a specific program ?

windows notepad doesn't understand unix eols i guess. who knew? :^) just did a silent update of v0.80beta w/ win-friendly eols.

enjoy! /dan

[sinkmusic]

PDF as in "i can add it to my Reaper help folder and i will have a quick access to it"
It is just a way to be able to read the same thing as the .txt document, but with titles written bigger and important stuff in bold.

(Just my 2 cents, and not to complain at all, but in a general way, I am really against any kind of video tutorial, as my internet conneciton is crap and english is not my native language -reading it is ok, but listening to it not so good-. PDF is always quicker to download, i can print it if i need, and it is natvely listed in reaper's documentation folder. Sorry for kinda nitpicking, that's not the intention !)

... And, as you said, "tweak and learn" is ok too (PDF can be great when you wish for a more in-depth, rational way of doing)

[bang]

Originally Posted by sinkmusic

PDF as in "i can add it to my Reaper help folder and i will have a quick access to it"
It is just a way to be able to read the same thing as the .txt document, but with titles written bigger and important stuff in bold.

that's doable. and it makes sense. and if i'm reformatting for pdf, tossing in some quick bits of screencap for visual context makes sense too. rsn. right after adding optional control 3/4 and reworking the tick preset logic. :^)

Originally Posted by sinkmusic

(Just my 2 cents, and not to complain at all, but in a general way, I am really against any kind of video tutorial, as my internet conneciton is crap and english is not my native language -reading it is ok, but listening to it not so good-.

this is a good perspective. i will keep it in mind if i do do any screencasts. i had already been thinking lots of info text overlays. and minimal talk/maximal audio/visual examples makes sense also. i do think seeing examples as they are done and hearing the sonic results could be more illuminating for many folks than text alone.

thanks for the input sinkmusic! enjoy! /dan

[sinkmusic]

Thanks, Bang, you're a gentleman.

Originally Posted by bang

i do think seeing examples as they are done and hearing the sonic results could be more illuminating for many folks than text alone.

Yes, indeed, that makes perfect sense too.

[amenbrother]

One question about portamento, legato, glide etc. Is it possible to program legato, or hold notes, and let the pitch glide between notes with different pitch. As it is now I try to set the gate time to 2 and set the voice of following step to 0, but try to trigger the pitch to influence the voice of the step before. Doesnt seem to work though.
Iv also tried the pitchbend, but it sems to be a little crude to make smooth transitions.

I know you can set the porta/ glide amount on the most synths, but some sequensers have the ability to program a hold note and glide between steps with different pitch information. Is it possible on the Arp!0


/Per

[bang]

Originally Posted by amenbrother

I know you can set the porta/ glide amount on the most synths, but some sequensers have the ability to program a hold note and glide between steps with different pitch information. Is it possible on the Arp!0

arp!0 only generates midi. afaik, this is not something midi can do by itself. the arps/sequencers i have seen that have this feature are built into a synth and do the glide internally. but i think many synths have an option to glide when midi input notes overlap. so you should be able to get this effect whenever the gate time is >= 1. this is not something i have much experience with though. anyone else have better ideas here? tia! /dan

[bang]

hello all! new release! this feels very nearly finally done-ish. or something. :^) primary changes are:

- optional 3rd & 4th control sequences
- reworked scaled tick time logic so that there is a separate automatable value that should allow smooth tempo changes, fwiw.
- revised logic & gui for the "power user" dir step types. added a new dir operation meta that shows new icons for dirops instead of reusing the normal icons. i hope this clarifies things a bit.
- pdf & html documentation with pics! the pics are fuzzy for me in the pdf. html much better imo. does that work for folks? this is a first pass, and mostly just adds pics to the old text, plus updates for the new gui bits. additions & edits to the docs are still on the agenda.

all in all, quite a few changes. could have tested more, but have some other pressing work to get to. so here it is. comments on the docs particularly welcome! what doesn't make sense?

enjoy! /dan

[bang]

ps- fyi, one more quite useful new bit in v0.81 is that right-clicking in dropdowns leaves the dropdown visible and active.

[amenbrother]

Originally Posted by bang

arp!0 only generates midi. afaik, this is not something midi can do by itself. the arps/sequencers i have seen that have this feature are built into a synth and do the glide internally. but i think many synths have an option to glide when midi input notes overlap. so you should be able to get this effect whenever the gate time is >= 1. this is not something i have much experience with though. anyone else have better ideas here? tia! /dan

Ok, cheers. Didnt know that. Hoped that it was possible. Yes the synth I tried it with was the Monotribe. Nice little fellow. With other hardware like the mks-50 its possible to use cc to control porta on off etc.

[IXix]

Thanks Dan.

[sinkmusic]

Thanks !

[Banned]

Originally Posted by bang

arp!0 only generates midi. afaik, this is not something midi can do by itself. the arps/sequencers i have seen that have this feature are built into a synth and do the glide internally. but i think many synths have an option to glide when midi input notes overlap. so you should be able to get this effect whenever the gate time is >= 1. this is not something i have much experience with though. anyone else have better ideas here? tia! /dan

Within the limits of the pitch bend range of the synth, you can probably do it with MIDI pitch bend. For example, if the pitch bend of the particular instrument used ranges from -12 to +12 semitones, you can make a glide of maximum 24 semitones by playing the first note with pitch bend at minimum from the start, then gradually moving to maximum, with timing controlled with some parameters. If the device allows for its pitch bend range to be set dynamically using MIDI (e.g. using RPNs or SysEx), you can change it to the desired interval for every individual slide, so you can maintain maximum pitch bend resolution for each slide for smoothest sliding results (I remember making a TB-303-inspired script for doing that for some other old Roland synths ages ago).

[bang]

ok, ok. shouldn't have been so absolute. "...not something midi can do easily" maybe? "...not something midi can do without horrible, ugly hacks"??? "...not something the midi goddess ever intended midi to do"??? :^) :^)

Originally Posted by Banned

Within the limits of the pitch bend range of the synth, you can probably do it with MIDI pitch bend. For example, if the pitch bend of the particular instrument used ranges from -12 to +12 semitones, you can make a glide of maximum 24 semitones by playing the first note with pitch bend at minimum from the start, then gradually moving to maximum, with timing controlled with some parameters.

but what if the *next* note is lower than the first? amenbrother wants a continuous glide across all sequenced/arp'd notes i think. and if we are only thinking one note at a time, this seems like something that would be better done in a post-processing midi plugin. actually, *has* it been done? enjoy! /dan

ps- smiling all the while i was composing this. hope the good humor is clear, Banned. ...and, any thoughts on arp!0 relative to Numerology?

[bang]

Originally Posted by bang

and if we are only thinking one note at a time, this seems like something that would be better done in a post-processing midi plugin.

hmmm. even if we *aren't* thinking one note at a time, 14 bits of pitch bend distributed across 24 semitones gives a resolution of <0.15 cents. i think that would be good enough to do a reasonably continuous pitch bend glide over 2 octaves controlled by midi note input. sounds like a fun little Js plugin to do sometime. sometime *after* arp!0 that is. :^) enjoy! /dan

ps- unless it's been done already? or if anyone else is willing? :^)

[Lawrence]

This is one of the coolest things I've seen lately.

[bang]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

This is one of the coolest things I've seen lately.

only lately? :^( ...sorry. :^) i seem to be in a mood today. very glad you like arp!0 Lawrence. feedback always welcome. enjoy! /dan

[groundhum]

Originally Posted by bang

sounds like a fun little Js plugin to do sometime. sometime *after* arp!0 that is.

And that's where it should be: after. IMNSHO js plugins should be [modular] building blocks and not include the kitchen sink.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by bang

but what if the *next* note is lower than the first? amenbrother wants a continuous glide across all sequenced/arp'd notes i think. and if we are only thinking one note at a time, this seems like something that would be better done in a post-processing midi plugin. actually, *has* it been done? enjoy! /dan

ps- smiling all the while i was composing this. hope the good humor is clear, Banned. ...and, any thoughts on arp!0 relative to Numerology?

Well, of course you have to do this every time between two notes; and when the second note starts you should already know the next (third) note in order to properly set its pitch bend offset. Of course it'd be easier to code for offline processing, but that would make an arpeggiator almost useless, no? (Perhaps not entirely - I remember making and using such arpeggiator scripts for offline use with Cakewalk's ancient and abandoned CAL application scripting language. The reason why I think it could be done in realtime, is that an arpeggiator typically knows in advance what notes it should play in advance of actually playing them (but I'm not sure that applies to your arpeggiator entirely). But it's definitely not the easiest thing to do.

I hope I didn't miss any good yet subtle humor, not being a native speaker, but don't worry about me taking your comments the wrong way.

Didn't get around to much playing with Numerology lately, unfortunately... will get back to you on that one.

[bang]

Originally Posted by Banned

Well, of course you have to do this every time between two notes; and when the second note starts you should already know the next (third) note in order to properly set its pitch bend offset.

i don't see how you could reset the base pitch bend between notes without retriggering a new note, which would break up the continuous glide, wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by Banned

The reason why I think it could be done in realtime, is that an arpeggiator typically knows in advance what notes it should play in advance of actually playing them (but I'm not sure that applies to your arpeggiator entirely). But it's definitely not the easiest thing to do.

because of live, real time parameter changes, arp!0 doesn't currently look ahead. it would be pretty tricky to do both. and, i do think the continuously gliding effect that amenbrother wants is better done in a separate, post-process plugin dedicated to that purpose.

Originally Posted by Banned

I hope I didn't miss any good yet subtle humor, not being a native speaker, but don't worry about me taking your comments the wrong way.

oh good. i'm a bit paranoid about my sometimes quirky humor coming across the wrong way in text. your hacker "can do" attitude is delightful. thanks for the good ideas.

Originally Posted by Banned

Didn't get around to much playing with Numerology lately, unfortunately... will get back to you on that one.

that will be great, whenever. i'm quite curious what the arp!0-Numerology cross-product might reveal. and nice to see you here in the arp!0 thread!

enjoy! /dan

ps- just ran across the brave new Js world thread. big wow there! big arp!0 code rewrite somewhere down the road too. oh joy! :^)

[Anton9]

Dan,

I was wondering if there is any chance you could add the "sort transform" section(on/off, update transform on, load) to the parameters list so they can be controlled via MIDI?

Thank You,

Anton

[bang]

Originally Posted by Anton9

I was wondering if there is any chance you could add the "sort transform" section(on/off, update transform on, load) to the parameters list so they can be controlled via MIDI?

possibly. on/off, and update transform on are doable. not sure about load, since the loadable sortx's could be a moving target. adding parameters is a bit of a pain though, so i'd like to understand the use case better. what do you have in mind specifically? and, all the sortx bits are changeable using variants. could you do what you want by loading different variants with different sortx configurations and using midi program changes to change the current variant? this would have the advantage that the different sortx's are saved and restored in a preset. loading sortx's is dependant on what sortx's are currently in the arpbangzero_sortx/_defsortx.txt data files. enjoy! /dan

[Anton9]

Basically I want to be able to change these options via MIDI/OSC while playing so I don't have to open the interface and use the mouse. I thought about doing it via program change but that is apt to introduce a slight pause in output or possible stuck notes.

[bang]

Originally Posted by Anton9

Basically I want to be able to change these options via MIDI/OSC while playing so I don't have to open the interface and use the mouse. I thought about doing it via program change but that is apt to introduce a slight pause in output or possible stuck notes.

variant program changes should not interrupt arp!0 in any way other than loading a new configuration. seamless live config changes is one of the main reasons for having variants. so if it glitches i want to know and i'll fix it. but it sounds like you are more interested in remote control. for that i can see some value in exposing a sortx on/off parameter. the update sortx controls would be more difficult. there are too many i think to devote a parameter to each. internally they are bits in a single value. i'm not sure how useful a bit collection is for remote control. how important is this Anton? remote control of loading sortx's probably won't work. from Js you can't distinguish automation parameters and preset values. so a parameter to load a sortx will also show up when loading presets, which have their own embedded sortx's. afaik, there would be no way to know when to overwrite the preset sortx with a loaded sortx. for this i think you will need to put any sortx's you need in variants and use program changes. but as i said, that ought to just work. hope all this helps. enjoy! /dan

[Anton9]

I just tried variants and they appear to work fine for what I had in mind as far as switching sort transforms is concerned.

Originally Posted by bang

but it sounds like you are more interested in remote control. for that i can see some value in exposing a sortx on/off parameter.

That would be great!

Originally Posted by bang

the update sortx controls would be more difficult. there are too many i think to devote a parameter to each. internally they are bits in a single value. i'm not sure how useful a bit collection is for remote control.

As for the "update sortx controls" if you could expose just that single value to be controlled via MIDI that would be fine because I should be able to get at the individual bits with the software that I use to program my controller. It has a pretty robust scripting language.

My next question would be.., I assume the switching of variants is done with a single value as well? If you could expose this as well that would be awesome.

Thank You,

Anton

[bang]

Originally Posted by Anton9

I just tried variants and they appear to work fine for what I had in mind as far as switching sort transforms is concerned.

good. and i will add sortx on/off & update bits to the short list. it may be a while before another release though.

Originally Posted by Anton9

My next question would be.., I assume the switching of variants is done with a single value as well? If you could expose this as well that would be awesome.

alas, variants are a whole different ballgame. and for reasons similar to switching sort transforms, it just won't work to add a variant parameter. i tried early on, but because changing variants changes settings that are also loaded in presets, "bad things" happened. is there a problem with program changes for this purpose Anton9? enjoy! /dan

[Anton9]

Well it looks like I was right regarding stuck notes when switching via program changes..., bummer.

[bang]

Originally Posted by Anton9

Well it looks like I was right regarding stuck notes when switching via program changes..., bummer.

can't have that. i am determined that this works right. can you send me a Reaper project that demonstrates this? tia! /dan

[Anton9]

Here ya go.
It's a very basic example using two instances of ReaSynth just for test purposes, the first is set to MIDI Bus 1 and the second to Bus 2.

Note:
Just before I was getting ready to post this I did another test and noticed that the MIDI Bus option in arpbangzero is not being saved within variants, although it does save correctly within presets.

Setup:
Load the project then in arpbangzero set "load preset notes" to yes and select preset "Test 1".., let run for a second then switch to preset "Test 2"
and you should hear "Test 1" notes hanging. It doesn't do it everytime so you may have to try a few times. I did however notice that it seems like you can get it to hang easier if you change presets using the mouse scrollwheel.

Thanks for looking into this.

Anton