Old 04-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #1
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Default Lonelier w/SpikeMullings on strings

i did this song partially because i wanted to try doing a really full mix and see if i could still separate, and partially because it's been sitting around so long undone.
to help with the "filling it up" part, i asked SpikeMullings to help me out with some strings. i also asked a keyboardist to help out to make it even more difficult (for me).

me: bass, guitar, a ton of vocs, and drum/perc programming
(Addictive drums/Kontakt perc)
Spike: strings
John aka KTB: piano.

http://www.box.com/s/112fac50ff081060b428

comments REALLY welcome so i can find my weak spots.

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Old 04-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
i did this song partially because i wanted to try doing a really full mix and see if i could still separate, and partially because it's been sitting around so long undone.
to help with the "filling it up" part, i asked SpikeMullings to help me out with some strings since he sounded so great on Kindafishy's most recent post Shadows Where We Stand. i also asked a keyboardist to help out to make it even more difficult (for me).

me: bass, guitar, a ton of vocs, and drum/perc programming
(Addictive drums/Kontakt perc)
Spike: strings
John aka KTB: piano.

http://www.box.com/s/112fac50ff081060b428

comments REALLY welcome so i can find my weak spots.
great song overall! just two suggestions:

1) the vocals get more lost as the orchestration gets more full.

2) it deserves a better ending - fadeout, stinger, something besides "let's just stop playing now".
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:54 PM   #3
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ha! i like that ending description!

what's a "stinger?"
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:22 PM   #4
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ha! i like that ending description!

what's a "stinger?"
i picked up that term back in school marching band. i thought it referred to a way of ending a song where, after a seeming finale, there's a brief pause and then one fortissimo chord the entire band blasts out to actually end the song. like "you thought we were done? bam! we stung you!"

(of course just now when i was trying to find a link for it, it looks like i was mistaken all these years. the closest i could find was under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ary_march_form)

either way, i'd still recommend some sort of polished ending for your piece.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
i did this song partially because i wanted to try doing a really full mix and see if i could still separate, and partially because it's been sitting around so long undone.
to help with the "filling it up" part, i asked SpikeMullings to help me out with some strings since he sounded so great on Kindafishy's most recent post Shadows Where We Stand. i also asked a keyboardist to help out to make it even more difficult (for me).

me: bass, guitar, a ton of vocs, and drum/perc programming
(Addictive drums/Kontakt perc)
Spike: strings
John aka KTB: piano.

http://www.box.com/s/112fac50ff081060b428

comments REALLY welcome so i can find my weak spots.
Well, I wish it was me what done the strings on Shadows (I bloody love that track) but in fact that was the masterful Scottedog

Let me say right now what a great privilege and pleasure it was for me to be asked to work on this terrific song with Sammy. The guy is a gentleman, a prolific and great talent and a joy to work with.
Thanks Sammy!
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:28 PM   #6
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Well, I wish it was me what done the strings on Shadows (I bloody love that track) but in fact that was the masterful Scottedog
(>_<)

...my apologies SD!
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:19 AM   #7
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congrats mate, great vocal arrangement also...
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:13 AM   #8
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That's why I love this forum

I'm not going to offer any critique on the mix. I'm going to say something much more important than that.


This song has all the hall marks of being a song that grows, and a song that persists.........and years later it will as good if not better

You guys have hit it..........it's got that quality of bands like the Beach Boys, and Love - timeless

please, please don't spoil it by adding stuff or being too anal about the mix

I lurve it, don't care about the mix, just don't make it worse

IMO it needs little more than mastering and releasing

very clever, and yet very beautiful

Definitely one of the very best things I've heard on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:49 AM   #9
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Hey Sammy

I thought you said you can't concentrate for long, and gave up on songs before you got halfway through mixing them

............something changed?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:39 AM   #10
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Default awful

The word "awesome" has just "some". A better description of this piece would be "aweful", which is more "full".

Have to say this is the least pop thing I have heard in a long time, and I love it. The core melody is just strange. The layering of harmony that goes on top of itself around 1;20 in the "badada" part is rich in come-and-go peekaboo veins. Then when it gets going again for the extended ending, it swallows the listener up, like strong moving currents in the delta. The ending - due to all this sad, unapologetic swirling - just has to be done. And the descending twisted rope of phrase at the very end - with strings and piano - is just right to me.

eeesh!
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:19 AM   #11
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Default Full of awe

Awful, or full of awe - now I understand it ^^^

not just awesome - where only some of it has awe, there is a difference

I'll get my coat, I feel an anal attack coming on
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #12
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Congrats, very nice track.
Funny, made me think of a new James Bond movie song...

If I may just say something about the main voice. It seems a little too "close", or closer than some of the other instruments. the whole things could use some extra "room".
And the tracks sounds little bit too compressed (but maybe it's just me).
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Artbay View Post
i picked up that term back in school marching band. i thought it referred to a way of ending a song where, after a seeming finale, there's a brief pause and then one fortissimo chord the entire band blasts out to actually end the song. like "you thought we were done? bam! we stung you!"

(of course just now when i was trying to find a link for it, it looks like i was mistaken all these years. the closest i could find was under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ary_march_form)

either way, i'd still recommend some sort of polished ending for your piece.
got it. it may have not been the correct technical term, but it fits the idea perfectly.
i'm frankly at a loss for an alternate ending. maybe a fade? not much more i can do unless i asked to other fellaz to add a little more, but i think i'd be pushing it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
That's why I love this forum

I'm not going to offer any critique on the mix. I'm going to say something much more important than that.


This song has all the hall marks of being a song that grows, and a song that persists.........and years later it will as good if not better

You guys have hit it..........it's got that quality of bands like the Beach Boys, and Love - timeless

please, please don't spoil it by adding stuff or being too anal about the mix

I lurve it, don't care about the mix, just don't make it worse

IMO it needs little more than mastering and releasing

very clever, and yet very beautiful

Definitely one of the very best things I've heard on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter
that's about one of the coolest, and most encouraging comments i've heard. i truly love songwriting, but mixing those songs is a VERY close second love. so to hear anything positive on either side just pushes me to do better at both...well negative as well since i learn from the 'bad' stuff. 'negative' is not even the proper term here, tho. tho i have seen it, 'constructive' is what i see here at Reaper more.
thanks so much Ted, i feel inspired.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #15
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Hey Sammy

I thought you said you can't concentrate for long, and gave up on songs before you got halfway through mixing them

............something changed?
please see the above reply...

damn! you got one helluva memory!
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:45 AM   #16
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got it. it may have not been the correct technical term, but it fits the idea perfectly.
i'm frankly at a loss for an alternate ending. maybe a fade? not much more i can do unless i asked to other fellaz to add a little more, but i think i'd be pushing it.


Want a guitar ending - particularly an acoustic guitar ending with percussion? My favorite thing. You only has to ask....
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:47 AM   #17
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The word "awesome" has just "some". A better description of this piece would be "aweful", which is more "full".

Have to say this is the least pop thing I have heard in a long time, and I love it. The core melody is just strange. The layering of harmony that goes on top of itself around 1;20 in the "badada" part is rich in come-and-go peekaboo veins. Then when it gets going again for the extended ending, it swallows the listener up, like strong moving currents in the delta. The ending - due to all this sad, unapologetic swirling - just has to be done. And the descending twisted rope of phrase at the very end - with strings and piano - is just right to me.

eeesh!
msore approved!!!
it was a pain in the ass to mix, but so much fun to record.
there's a singer i worked with in the past (posted here as Photographic if i haven't deleted it), who i asked to help me out with the harmonies. but he said he'd rather varnish his furniture, so that left me to do it all myself. more time consuming, but i guess it paid off. thanks man.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #18
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Awful, or full of awe - now I understand it ^^^

not just awesome - where only some of it has awe, there is a difference

I'll get my coat, I feel an anal attack coming on
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #19
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Want a guitar ending - particularly an acoustic guitar ending with percussion? My favorite thing. You only has to ask....
stripped project on the way...
please check your pm in an hour or so.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:59 AM   #20
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please see the above reply...

damn! you got one helluva memory!

You should end it with the ...... bad-a ba -bad a ba - four times (with percussion, but not so many harmonies), and then cut the percussion and do it twice more, with nothing but voices - loads of them, and maybe an echo trail

PS: I am totally absent minded. I have no idea where any of my picks are, or my bottle neck, or my shoes. I have no idea what I did yesterday. I'm a freak, every now and then something enters my head from a long time ago, and I don't know how it got there. like I might remember you as the guy with the Fender Jazzmaster with the wrong tuners on it

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Old 04-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #21
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Congrats, very nice track.
Funny, made me think of a new James Bond movie song...

If I may just say something about the main voice. It seems a little too "close", or closer than some of the other instruments. the whole things could use some extra "room".
And the tracks sounds little bit too compressed (but maybe it's just me).
Even the title sounds Bond-ish (full title: Lonelier Than That) now that you said that. lead vocs easy enough to bring down, thanks for that. i use a convolution "studio A" verb as the final, and mostly the only verb for my mixes, so you think it can bring it up a db or so?
i really don't compress much. most times the 'needle' barely passes 1 db of compression. just lazily relaxes. BUT i do add more to drums and bass is there where you hear it?

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Old 04-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #22
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You should end it with the ...... bad-a ba -bad a ba - four times (with percussion, but not so many harmonies), and then cut the percussion and do it twice more, with nothing but voices - loads of them, and maybe an echo trail
where will your guitar come in if i did that?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #23
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Congrats, very nice track.
Funny, made me think of a new James Bond movie song...
When Sammy first PM'd and sent the track asking for strings I wrote back something like "OK, I'm hearing, like, Bond, in a seaplane, descending to some exotic yet intangibly sinister lagoon location."

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Old 04-16-2012, 10:41 AM   #24
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where will your guitar come in if i did that?
Oh it just be flowery frill in the right place.

I didn't mean you have to have to have both.I meant the 6 bars of ba-de bas as an alternative, but you could do both. I like endings a lot, it's the bit in the middle that I have trouble with

You wouldn't need a bit of acoustic guitar on it at all, but you might have a bit in the first four bars with percussion just to take the mood down a little, leaving the last two bars for vocals only

It's only an idea, but as a guitarist that loves acoustic, I do find it a great "blender". There may be many better ideas than mine though - I'm biased
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #25
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One word: Awesome.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #26
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ok, guess it won't send it so soon now. your suggestions will be my project of the day. when i'm done, i'll pm the proj to you and you can add whatever you like. don't have ta worry about quality.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:44 AM   #27
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love it! I always feel like I'm lying on the grass staring at the sky watching mushroom induced cloud formations when I listen to Sammy's songs

Great song, good mix I think. Nice separation, as your mixes usually do. I agree with the vox too up front comment. Not bad, just a little noticeable. I think you should just fade out the ending so you don't hear the stop.... All just my opinions...

Nice adds spike!
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:47 AM   #28
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LOL!!!
think i'll have a shroom and peanutbutter now...

vocal comin down.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:48 AM   #29
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vocal comin down.
not in volume, in presence.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:01 AM   #30
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got it!
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:15 AM   #31
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One word: Awesome.
thanks man. gotta hit you up one of these days....
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:32 AM   #32
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well this is just a fantastic composition all around.
goes well with my morning coffee and my aching body from the Crowbar/Prong show last nite.
Unreal Sammy.
Makes me wanna go for a drive.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:35 AM   #33
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from Crowbar/Prong to this?
hahaha!

fortunately/unfortunately, i don't have any chill songs left in me for a while. got that spring fever now...
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:04 AM   #34
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got that spring fever now...
sweeeeeeeeeeeet
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