Old 05-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #1
Boddrick
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Default REAPER PC - What kind of Specs are we talking?

Hi guys,

I'm saddened to say that REAPER has begun to struggle immensely when I work on my current project, to the extent that I can't realistically progress. It's not REAPER's fault, mind. My PC is a few years old now and doesn't really cut it. The project in question makes use of a lot of instances of NI's Massive (soft synth), plus loads of MIDI items, so it's heavy duty. So at some point in the next few months, I hope to grab a new PC, all kitted out to allow REAPER to run free and frolic without a care in the world.

I will be on a budget though, and I'd definitely be looking at under £1000, so I was hoping you clever folks might be able to give me an idea of the important computer specs I should be looking at. Any specific PC recommendations are welcome of course, but that's above and beyond the call of duty. By the way, Windows only, please. Purely because Macs are just TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE!!

Seems to me that 8GB of RAM should do the trick for REAPER, although I'd hope to see space for a 16GB upgrade. 64-Bit REAPER can access that, right? I don't THINK sound cards are particularly important for me, since I have an external Line 6 audio interface that seems to have a pretty sweet sound card, with no latency when playing MIDI instruments. And I guess those are the most important areas for REAPER use? If there are any other important specs I should be thinking about, let me know. Obviously the processor could do with being decent, but any 8GB machine is probably going to have a half-decent processor, surely?

Cheers!
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:55 AM   #2
adsvoid
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Hi With your budget a pc with 16 gigs of ram is more than enough. Make sure to buy some good cpu 64 bit will ofc do the trick with that amount of memory.
btw: All modern processor are decent enough
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:56 AM   #3
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Double post boogie
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #4
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I bought my new one from an Ebay shop recently..3.5 ghz i7 2700k,2Tb HDD,16 Gbs ram...€600.

The case is shite but that dosent bother me.Things a beast.

Reaper 64bit is all I run on it.Animal.

Although at the moment I'd rather have the money.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsvoid View Post
Hi With your budget a pc with 16 gigs of ram is more than enough. Make sure to buy some good cpu 64 bit will ofc do the trick with that amount of memory.
btw: All modern processor are decent enough
Perhaps, but we are in the UK - things are not so cheap here.

Have a look at the 3XS systems from Scan Computers (they're in Bolton, I think - not a million miles away from you). I have one for over 2 years - working fine here.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:24 AM   #6
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Okay here we go again with this 64 bit crap.

Okay here is the problem since you mentioned Ram,

Okay so if you are running let's say windows 7 64 bit. very good OS.
if you run a 32 bit app in it, it makes no sense as you will not be able to use all that good ram you bought. So if most of your apps are 32 bit stick with 32 bit OS.

It's very simple you take a huge loss running 32 bit apps in a 64 bit OS, as the OS has to run double the work now running a 64 bit app and a 32 bit at the same time. This was not for compatibility, it was only added to 64bit so you could at lest run your apps until you get the 64 bit version of the app.

So since a 32 bit app can only use 2 gig instances and a 64 bit app can use more than 2 gig instances. You have to decide if you want to take the full advantage of 64 bit then all your apps, vst's and specially VSTi's must be 64 bit!!!!!

Hope you understand that, it's hilarious I see people all the time doing this, they run a 64 bit OS but run 32 bit apps LOL, very stupit as they are actually running the apps slower then window xp lol


whatever computer you get DO NOT ignore the facts above or you will be just not happy at all.

By the way I would dualboot as that is how I run all my systems. XP 32/ Windows 7 64 bit

If you patch your windows xp kernel with the PAE patch ( google it) then your xp can use use all the ram you give ( depending on your mobo too) up to 128 gigs of ram. But remember your apps 32bit will still have the 2 gig limit.

just like windows server 2003 32 bit supports 128 gigs of ram because it has a PAE kernel. This is the kernel that made those patch's possible

hahaha thanks microsoft

Last edited by danfuerth; 05-08-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Perhaps, but we are in the UK - things are not so cheap here.

Have a look at the 3XS systems from Scan Computers (they're in Bolton, I think - not a million miles away from you). I have one for over 2 years - working fine here.
If you want build quality and good support Scan 3xS systems are very good indeed and take some of the awkward guess work out of component matching. If you know exactly what you're looking for component wise (If you did you probably wouldn't be posting) buy parts and build as it will work out cheaper.

Boddick didn't mention 32bit. Nowhere in his post that I could see anyway

Before I went x64 completely earlier this year it was very easy to use all of my available 8gb of ram under W7x64 with 32bit Reaper. Thankfully Reaper allows you to run 32bit plug ins bridged in 32bit Reaper (Right click in the plugin browser and select run as Dedicated process) which means each Ram hungry plugin can have it's own address space outside of Reapers address space, a nifty trick which isn't really required these days due to Developers catching up and releasing x64 versions. Well most of them have, are you listening IK multimedia with your 32bit CSR Reverb
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boddrick View Post
Hi guys,

I'm saddened to say that REAPER has begun to struggle immensely when I work on my current project, to the extent that I can't realistically progress. It's not REAPER's fault, mind. My PC is a few years old now and doesn't really cut it. The project in question makes use of a lot of instances of NI's Massive (soft synth), plus loads of MIDI items, so it's heavy duty. So at some point in the next few months, I hope to grab a new PC, all kitted out to allow REAPER to run free and frolic without a care in the world.
Until you upgrade, why don't you try to render your tracks, and delete extra VSTI's? I am using many different VSTI's, rendering, then delete and move on to the next.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by danfuerth View Post
Okay here we go again with this 64 bit crap.

Okay here is the problem since you mentioned Ram,

Okay so if you are running let's say windows 7 64 bit. very good OS.
if you run a 32 bit app in it, it makes no sense as you will not be able to use all that good ram you bought. So if most of your apps are 32 bit stick with 32 bit OS.

It's very simple you take a huge loss running 32 bit apps in a 64 bit OS, as the OS has to run double the work now running a 64 bit app and a 32 bit at the same time. This was not for compatibility, it was only added to 64bit so you could at lest run your apps until you get the 64 bit version of the app.

So since a 32 bit app can only use 2 gig instances and a 64 bit app can use more than 2 gig instances. You have to decide if you want to take the full advantage of 64 bit then all your apps, vst's and specially VSTi's must be 64 bit!!!!!

Hope you understand that, it's hilarious I see people all the time doing this, they run a 64 bit OS but run 32 bit apps LOL, very stupit as they are actually running the apps slower then window xp lol


whatever computer you get DO NOT ignore the facts above or you will be just not happy at all.

By the way I would dualboot as that is how I run all my systems. XP 32/ Windows 7 64 bit

If you patch your windows xp kernel with the PAE patch ( google it) then your xp can use use all the ram you give ( depending on your mobo too) up to 128 gigs of ram. But remember your apps 32bit will still have the 2 gig limit.

just like windows server 2003 32 bit supports 128 gigs of ram because it has a PAE kernel. This is the kernel that made those patch's possible

hahaha thanks microsoft
Did you even read the original post?

Nobody mentioned 32-bit, the OP was asking about RAM usage in 64-bit Reaper.

You have *strong* opinions... but they are not right for everyone.

Just saying.

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:50 AM   #10
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It's very simple you take a huge loss running 32 bit apps in a 64 bit OS, as the OS has to run double the work now running a 64 bit app and a 32 bit at the same time
I'm sorry I don't want to get involved in another argument Dan but that is completely Wrong.
WOW64 is native Code and the 32bit instruction sets run native on the modern X64 cpus, the only exception being Itanium cpu's which don't have a full x32 instruction set, therefore some of it is emulated (At a very low level!). As I don't think many Reaper users are running IA64 systems, there is no hit running on WOW64.

Even doing real hard OS emulation (as I do in my day job) using something like App-V to virtualise all of the calls an app makes into the OS and filesystem only produces a performance hit in the order of thousands of a %.

Sorry for Digressing the thread Boddrik, 3xS still gets my vote in the UK!
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #11
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Good info, but here is the problem that you still don't get

Why didn't software companies including Cockos themselves add 36 bit extensions to Reaper? Since this ram limitation has never been about the OS.
If you must know Intel has had PAE extensions in their processors since 1995, when the Pentium Pro came out. back then you could address 64 gigs of ram with the Pentium Pro.

So there is no issue with a 32 bit OS to see more than 4 gigs of ram, those limits are imposed by kernel licences, just like Microsoft does between their desktop OS and their Server OS.

The OP must know that as if he thinks going to 64 it is going to solve any problems he is dead Wrong and no it's not native, it's an interpreter that is why 32 bit apps in windows 7 are much slower than in XP, anyone who denies this is fooling themselves, and be a fan of the corp's.

I run Windows 7 64 bit and all my apps on there are 64 bit NO 32 apps in there. All my audio apps, VST, VSTi are 64 bit on there.

I also run XP dual booted of course and without a doubt I notice the difference in speed of 32 bit apps vs running them on windows 7

The OP is going to be spending money, I hate people spending money for no good reason, first of all without reading up on the facts vs what companies want you to do, believe in their bullshit.

Again to tickle your bone, AMD just released an OPTERON X86 ( notice X86) with 32 cores. I think even AMD is showing us 64 bit was a mistake and was all a hype. We did not need to go 64 bit at all, what was needed was for software companies to embrace PAE and code around it.

I've only seen 32 bit apps with 36 PAE extensions on mostly servers, this explains why the MOBO companies did not want boards for regular users with PAE hardware support as then software companies liek Microsoft and Apple could not licence their Kernels for ram limits.

And here is why for a long time before 64 bit started to get pushed due to falling sales of computers worldwide. If you have a desktop that has no ram limits ( MOBO) and the OS kernel not ram limited, you can turn any desktop into a server that my friend is the problem with Microsoft and for some time Apple as well, don't forget Xserve.

Again all these limits are self imposed. Thanks to James Cameron as he was the one that approached Intel to make a 64 bit alpha chips for the rendering farm for the Titanic movie. Intel added 36 bit extensions as they could not produce the 64 bit chips at the time. So at least with 36 bit extensions the processor and the OS ( linux is what they used) could work with 64 gigs of ram. At that time yes 64 gigs was staggering. But money buys you everything.

Last edited by danfuerth; 05-08-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:43 PM   #12
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Alpha chips were invented and manufactured by DEC ( I still run two Alpha VMS systems!!) from the early 90's long before Titanic. Intel had nothing to do with Alpha until the early 2000's.
You believe what you like, I'll believe what I've worked with since 1986.
This thread has been totally derailed away from the Ops request.

Buy a 64bit system fill it with ram run software, make music and be happy!
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #13
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As ever, you REAPER forum locals are heroes and have helped out a great deal! The 3XS from Scan sounds very promising indeed. From what you guys have said, it seems like it caters almost perfectly to what I'm after. Philait, you're right, I'm not techy enough to build my own machine, more's the shame!

I'm also not particularly familiar with the in-depth workings of OS's and RAM allocation and the like, so it's fair to say I haven't followed much of that debate. Whatever the weather, it can't be a BAD idea to be going for Windows 7 64-bit plus REAPER in 64-bit. Seems like I'm sure to make the best use of the machine's memory that way, and quite frankly that's all I need to know.

Dan, I appreciate the input, but you pretty much lost me at "Okay here we go again with this 64 bit crap." I actually searched these forums for the word 'RAM' before posting this, and read your previous rant on the subject. It was actually pretty informative, so thanks for that, but if it's so much of an inconvenience for you to explain 'this crap' over and over again, feel free to not do so. You could happily just slap in a link to your previous thread and say "here, read this."

Anyway, cheers guys! As a wise man once said, "Make music and be happy! "
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:12 PM   #14
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Nice, this is what makes Reaper forum very different than others, You don't just get an yes or no answer you get different opinions which is very good

By the way with "alpha chips" I meant as in Early alpha test chips ( as in Alpha Stage) sorry I was not more clear.

So you have details on beyond even what you need but these details, are important since now you won't have to ask what 32 bit apps supports in terms of ram vs 64 bit apps.

So now make your purchase but again I stress don't forget that 32 bit apps do not have 36 bit extensions on purpose so they can't access more than 2 gig instances. So think about what Apps and Vsti's you are going to run.

Thanks.
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