Old 04-08-2017, 12:23 PM   #1
gdkaufmann
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Default Editing Audio Without Editing Video

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere but I couldn't find any other threads.

After importing a media file (MOV or the like) is there a way to edit only the audio tracks in Reaper without altering the video, while still having the video window open (so you can have the video as you work)?

Basically I want to be able to cut out clicks and pops and other bad audio and add other tracks of FX, backgrounds, and music without disturbing the picture portion of the file.

Also, is there a file format that's beast for doing that type of work?

Thanks for your help.

-GK

Last edited by gdkaufmann; 04-09-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 04-09-2017, 02:13 AM   #2
o_e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdkaufmann View Post
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere but I couldn't find any other threads.

After importing a media file (MOV or the like) is there a way to edit only the audio tracks in Reaper without altering the video, while still having the video window open (so you can have the video as you work)?

Basically I want to be able to cut out clicks and pops and other bad audio and add other tracks of FX, backgrounds, and music without disturbing the picture portion of the file.

Also, is there a file format that's beast for doing that type of work?

Thanks for your help.

-GK
As a workaround, are you aware of MPEG Streamclip
http://www.squared5.com/ ?
You can extract the audio from your film with it.
It's free and a musthave tool.

hth in the meantime
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Old 04-09-2017, 02:59 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by o_e View Post
As a workaround, are you aware of MPEG Streamclip
http://www.squared5.com/ ?
You can extract the audio from your film with it.
It's free and a musthave tool.

hth in the meantime
Thanks, that's a great tip, and does look like great tool. But it's really useful to be able to simultaneously play the picture in sync while editing.
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Old 04-09-2017, 03:22 AM   #4
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-duplicate the videotrack.
-glue the duplicated track and you get an audio-only track.
-set the video to ignore the audio (F2 and then select the Properties button, there you can set 'ignore audio')

-you result in having a video and an audio item.
-Group both (Select both and Press G)
-Splitting, moving,... will obeyed by both, then.

-you can render the result aas video

Last edited by bobobo; 04-09-2017 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 04-09-2017, 03:43 AM   #5
gdkaufmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo View Post
-duplicate the videotrack.
-glue the duplicated track and you get an audio-only track.
-set the video to ignore the audio (F2 and then select the Properties button, there you can set 'ignore audio')

-you result in having a video and an audio item.
-Group both (Select both and Press G)
-Splitting, moving,... will obeyed by both, then.

-you can render the result aas video
Thanks, but I'm not sure I follow.

I don't have a video "track" per se (as you would in a NLE like Premiere, Resolve, or FCPX) just one audio track and video playing in the video window.

Let me step back and say tat I've just imported from a .MOV file. Perhaps that's not the best file format to use.

If that's the case, what format should I have my editor export/render from FCPX so I can cut just audio and not picture in Reaper, but still see the video playback?

Thanks.

GK
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Old 04-09-2017, 04:07 AM   #6
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the video track IS the audio track too.
so, duplicate that track, select the item on this second track and glue it.
This way you will create an audio file with only the audio stream of your video.
then, right click on the item on the first track and click on "source properties". There, click on "ignore audio". This way your first track, the video track, will be only "video".
Now you can edit your audio without splitting or anything else to the video track
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by metal_priest View Post
the video track IS the audio track too.
so, duplicate that track, select the item on this second track and glue it.
This way you will create an audio file with only the audio stream of your video.
then, right click on the item on the first track and click on "source properties". There, click on "ignore audio". This way your first track, the video track, will be only "video".
Now you can edit your audio without splitting or anything else to the video track
Thanks.

I'll give it a try.

Best,
GK
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_priest View Post
the video track IS the audio track too.
so, duplicate that track, select the item on this second track and glue it.
This way you will create an audio file with only the audio stream of your video.
then, right click on the item on the first track and click on "source properties". There, click on "ignore audio". This way your first track, the video track, will be only "video".
Now you can edit your audio without splitting or anything else to the video track
Metal Stream,

Thanks. That seems to work fine.

Cheers,
GK
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Old 04-09-2017, 11:38 AM   #9
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I'd like to see someone talk about how to keep the already lossy video 1:1 with the original. Preparing audio for bluray seems to ironically be the easy one these days. The different levels of lossy video formats are the confusing ones!

How to preserve the video as is without re-encoding it?
What video formats accept lossless PCM audio (max 48k is just fine in this example)?
What ones require going to lossy audio? What lossy options do you get to choose from in this example?

These are the questions that I get the 12-volt stare to.


For example, if this was audio we would discuss how mp3 can be copied as a file 1:1 but decoding it back to wav and re-encoding it to mp3 would add another level of loss. Or how a 16 bit file can be put into a 24 bit format and preserved 1:1 but not the reverse.
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Old 04-09-2017, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo View Post
-duplicate the videotrack.
-glue the duplicated track and you get an audio-only track.
-set the video to ignore the audio (F2 and then select the Properties button, there you can set 'ignore audio')

-you result in having a video and an audio item.
-Group both (Select both and Press G)
-Splitting, moving,... will obeyed by both, then.

-you can render the result aas video
This is what I recommend too.
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:23 AM   #11
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I added a free tool in vordio that replaces audio in a video file without re-encoding the video. You can also use it to remove audio from a video if you leave the audio file field blank.

This function doesn't require a license.

The audio file you give it must be compatible with the container. i.e. a WAV won't fit in an MP4 but will in a MOV.

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Old 05-23-2017, 08:22 AM   #12
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I ended up getting pointed to Vordio and it just worked.

As mentioned you have to know the supported formats ahead of time. Give it the wrong config and it will either just sit there and do nothing or go malicious compliance and make a video file that doesn't work with any media player. (I'm seeing a pattern with video apps with the "malicious compliance" thing! I suppose some audio apps are like that too for some things.)

One aside here:

I discovered that the video containers that support AAC but not wav or other lossless audio will let you use Apple lossless because it's an extension of the AAC format. And the file plays back in VLC!

Is this an actual supported workaround? Or are there some media players that will not play along? Kind of a moot point with formats like mkv and all but seems kind of slick just the same. I usually make disparaging comments about Apple lossless (eg. We have FLAC. It's the consumer standard now. You're not even selling ALAC in the itunes store! Just... why?). Might have to alter that opinion now that I see this.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by serr View Post
As mentioned you have to know the supported formats ahead of time. Give it the wrong config and it will either just sit there and do nothing or go malicious compliance and make a video file that doesn't work with any media player. (I'm seeing a pattern with video apps with the "malicious compliance" thing! I suppose some audio apps are like that too for some things.)
There's a little trick here. If you change the output file name template to end with .MOV, it will take almost anything.

So change this

{name}-AR-{date}_{time}.{extension}

To this

{name}-AR-{date}_{time}.mov

That won't affect the video encoding either because .MOV will accept almost any video codec anyway. So if it was originally H264 in a MP4, then it will be same but now wrapped in the less fussy MOV container.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
There's a little trick here. If you change the output file name template to end with .MOV, it will take almost anything.

So change this

{name}-AR-{date}_{time}.{extension}

To this

{name}-AR-{date}_{time}.mov

That won't affect the video encoding either because .MOV will accept almost any video codec anyway. So if it was originally H264 in a MP4, then it will be same but now wrapped in the less fussy MOV container.
Nice. Thanks for the tip!

Same for .mkv?

I'm curious about the ALAC thing just as a way to possibly "improve" a normally lossy format. (For devices or apps that are restricted or older and don't support mkv for example.) I know this is mostly a moot point.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Nice. Thanks for the tip!

Same for .mkv?
Yes if you change the extension it will then accept audio that is allowed in that container.

Basically my tool is just a small UI on top of FFmpeg which does the actual repackaging. FFmpeg will assume you want it packaged as whatever container file you specify in the file extension, but will fail if the video or audio is not compatible with the container.
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