Old 05-31-2017, 07:36 AM   #1
Syn2k
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Default Reaper sampling rate question

Please tell me the best way to increase my Reaper sampling rate, audiophile DAC or studio sound interface.

I am using a Steinberg UR22 24 bit 192 kHz recording interface on an Apple Mac and the maximum audio mix render sample rate allowed by Reaper lists as 192 kHz on my Mac but I want to render at a higher sampling rate. Is studio sound interface required to make the Mac show a higher sampling rate in Reaper to mixdown to or can I use something like a Teac NT-503 DAC in Reaper?

If I have to use a recording studio style interface instead of simply an audiophile DAC I know the budget rises if more than using both my UR22 and the Teac for audiophile quality audio. One reason I want to use both is because my UR22 supports Mic in and also MIDI in and out via standard MIDI connectors so I can attach my iPad via MIDI to it and do vocoding and other voice effects here and there on occasion.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:55 AM   #2
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Why do you want to record higher than 192 kHz?

384 kHz is rare and expensive. Not to mention DSD...

The quality of your recordings isn't linear with sample rate. It depends on mic and preamp quality.

When it comes to output, 384 kHz is madness, in my mind.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:14 AM   #3
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Why do you want to record higher than 192 kHz?

384 kHz is rare and expensive. Not to mention DSD...

The quality of your recordings isn't linear with sample rate. It depends on mic and preamp quality.

When it comes to output, 384 kHz is madness, in my mind.
That's like claiming soft clipping is pointless or 32 bit floating point or more than 8 megs of RAM or massive oversampling is useless. I was so delighted by the 768 times oversampling on the first song I made in Reaper that it made me want to hurry to go for 384 kHz recordings or higher. I find that the smoothest recording I ever made with Omnisphere 2 was in Reaper v5.40 set at 24 bit 192 kHz 768x oversampling and Omnisphere 2 uses 24 bit 96 kHz samples for it's waveforms. Many modern plugins only support up to 192 kHz and that may be why DSD is far fetched but at least 384 kHz would be great.

Does reaper support 384 kHz with any old DAC. On the homepage it says it supports ANY sampling rate. Prime analog speakers call for high sampling rates in my opinion as does any hi fi system. If you're using headphones or cheapo listening units then any rate is fine. I own Mackie 624's for recording and Focal Chorus towers are my hi fi's. It's like adding embossing to process better in digital and organic appeal. At least to process the way I like. Maybe you don't do art that calls for anything but purity. That must be what it is. Purity is vanilla and dull to me. Pure signal BANJO and Yodeler art synthetic organic. End of rant.

Case closed answer please.

How can I make the sampling rate list beyond 192 kHz? Answer?

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Old 05-31-2017, 08:14 AM   #4
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Higher sampling rate gives higher resolution in the high end by its nature. Unfortunately, you won't be hearing any of that as its above 22khz by the time you get even just to 88.2.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:25 AM   #5
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Higher sampling rate gives higher resolution in the high end by its nature. Unfortunately, you won't be hearing any of that as its above 22khz by the time you get even just to 88.2.
I'm afraid the true logic is the equivelent of density of sound when it comes to sampling rate. It's like having more threads in clothing or knitting or quilts essentially, thus, more sugar. I just need to know which interface to buy. The Teac NT-503 near $500 dollar DAC OR the RME Audio ADI-2 Pro because one or the other is bound to be likely to support ultra sampling rate or at least sufficiently upscale to DSD. I prefer at a minimum to have Reaper allow 384 kHz after a big upgrade.

My sound interface cost me $149 dollars and normal DAW's display any sampling rate assumedly instead of just what the card supports that's why I'm asking you guys how to guarantee sample rate rendering at the maximum rate either a audiophile affordable DAC supports or an extra costly $1999 RME ADI-2 studio audiophile sound interface.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:28 AM   #6
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As mentioned, the audio range tops out around 20k. Using converters running at double the sampling frequency (96k) gives you a wide margin between your audio data and the sampling frequency and eliminates subtle (and sometimes less so) artifacts from creeping into the high frequency content. Double sampling rate again (192k) can be useful for certain restoration work where you really need to go digging into the decimal dust with processing. (This one's a little more debatable.)

But none of this has anything to do with capturing any data above the range of hearing. Higher sampling rates do that as an artifact of the system but it's a moot point.

The audiophile discussions around HD sample rates have to do with eliminating distortion artifacts that come with running your data band right up to the edge of the sampling frequency. One would assume you already have a very well tuned room, Prism or Weiss DA converters, Adams or B&W speakers, and money is not an issue if you are entering this kind of deep end shootout over DA converters and trying to critique running at 96k vs. 192k. Along with one of the handful of recordings suitable for such a shootout.

So... if you are hearing gross fidelity problems with budget 'prosumer' gear, it's very likely not related to sampling frequency choice. That would be one of the last factors and you'd have to have a high end system in a well tuned room and have gone through many other variables before this last few percent even enters the discussion. The components you are hearing the biggest fidelity factor from are the analog stages of the converter circuits. Don't get me wrong. This is a very real discussion and these subtleties can be heard and discussed. But it's sure not a discussion to have with iPads and Teac gear and $149 bottom end interfaces! Mic technique, mic and mic preamp quality, and your mixing prowess are the bullet points here.


Maybe this isn't even an audio discussion?
Are you trying to maybe entertain the thought of using audio equipment for a different purpose? Something with a data band in the higher frequencies? You might want to look into medical equipment.

PS. The "density of sound" comment is a discussion on sample size (24 bit vs. 16 bit), not frequency. This is a bigger factor than sampling frequency and holds true for any sampling frequency you use.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:39 AM   #7
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As mentioned, the audio range tops out around 20k. Using converters running at double the sampling frequency (96k) gives you a wide margin between your audio data and the sampling frequency and eliminates subtle (and sometimes less so) artifacts from creeping into the high frequency content. Double sampling rate again (192k) can be useful for certain restoration work where you really need to go digging into the decimal dust with processing. (This one's a little more debatable.)

But none of this has anything to do with capturing any data above the range of hearing. Higher sampling rates do that as an artifact of the system but it's a moot point.

The audiophile discussions around HD sample rates have to do with eliminating distortion artifacts that come with running your data band right up to the edge of the sampling frequency. One would assume you already have a very well tuned room, Prism or Weiss DA converters, Adams or B&W speakers, and money is not an issue if you are entering this kind of deep end shootout over DA converters and trying to critique running at 96k vs. 192k. Along with one of the handful of recordings suitable for such a shootout.

So... if you are hearing gross fidelity problems with budget 'prosumer' gear, it's very likely not related to sampling frequency choice. That would be one of the last factors and you'd have to have a high end system in a well tuned room and have gone through many other variables before this last few percent even enters the discussion. The components you are hearing the biggest fidelity factor from are the analog stages of the converter circuits. Don't get me wrong. This is a very real discussion and these subtleties can be heard and discussed. But it's sure not a discussion to have with iPads and Teac gear and $149 bottom end interfaces! Mic technique, mic and mic preamp quality, and your mixing prowess are the bullet points here.


Maybe this isn't even an audio discussion?
Are you trying to maybe entertain the thought of using audio equipment for a different purpose? Something with a data band in the higher frequencies? You might want to look into medical equipment.

PS. The "density of sound" comment is a discussion on sample size (24 bit vs. 16 bit), not frequency. This is a bigger factor than sampling frequency and holds true for any sampling frequency you use.
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:05 AM   #8
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If REAPER doesn't do what you want, you can request a change but it might take awhile if they decide to do it, so your best bet is probably to find a different application.

I'm not a MAC user but that might be a limitation of the file writing modules built-into the operating system. I'm just guessing and I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it might not be supported by default. For example, on a Windows machine you can play a certain range of sample rates even if not actually supported by your hardware (the drivers make the conversion) but it has to be a "normal" sample rate.



...Of all the things that affect sound quality, resolution (above "CD quality") is around the bottom of the list.

Quote:
That's like claiming soft clipping is pointless or 32 bit floating point or more than 8 megs of RAM or massive oversampling is useless.
Your analogy doesn't make sense. At some point you're beyond human limitations and there's nothing useful to be gained. I can make a preamp that goes from into the MHz range, but DC doesn't make sound* and there's no "sound" above the range of hearing, and any additional "information" is going to take-up "space" or "bandwidth", amplifier power, etc., and it's likely to do more harm than good!

Here's a different analogy... Imagine taking your TV out of our living room and sticking it across a football field... Can you tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray? No. The TV resolution exceeds your visual resolution so you can't see the difference.



* You can get a "click" when DC (zero Hz) kicks-in or shuts off, so it's generally best to prevent DC or filter it out.
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
If REAPER doesn't do what you want, you can request a change but it might take awhile if they decide to do it, so your best bet is probably to find a different application.

I'm not a MAC user but that might be a limitation of the file writing modules built-into the operating system. I'm just guessing and I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it might not be supported by default. For example, on a Windows machine you can play a certain range of sample rates even if not actually supported by your hardware (the drivers make the conversion) but it has to be a "normal" sample rate.



...Of all the things that affect sound quality, resolution (above "CD quality") is around the bottom of the list.

Your analogy doesn't make sense. At some point you're beyond human limitations and there's nothing useful to be gained. I can make a preamp that goes from into the MHz range, but DC doesn't make sound* and there's no "sound" above the range of hearing, and any additional "information" is going to take-up "space" or "bandwidth", amplifier power, etc., and it's likely to do more harm than good!

Here's a different analogy... Imagine taking your TV out of our living room and sticking it across a football field... Can you tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray? No. The TV resolution exceeds your visual resolution so you can't see the difference.



* You can get a "click" when DC (zero Hz) kicks-in or shuts off, so it's generally best to prevent DC or filter it out.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm Windows driver aware so I know it's classic for some OS's and systems to support any sampling rate that the host supports drivers or not. That's what I was querying. As for sampling quality I am the type of guy that doesn't mind just simply tuning the contrast and priming the sharpness for an artistic appeal and I work with more than 5 different mastering compressers limiters and eq types on the master channel that I use art vision dependently. It's fun to blur contrast and sharpen detail for me and also fruitful as with a paint program.

I would in no moments spared buy anything best if I could easily but there's no way I can and I swear Mackie's from 99 are super super super well manufactured and I honestly didn't dig my so called hi-fi towers at all. I in the past had generic loud wooden speakers that were big bookshelf ones that nearly match my Focals in my opinion. It just seriously seems that custom honing is wonderful with perfect flat frequency ultra engineered Mackie's because of all the air in all frequencies they pump. I engineer my master's ITB as in in the box and am loving it but I want DVD upscaling baby! I'll message Reaper now about it.

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Old 05-31-2017, 01:34 PM   #10
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under preferences > audio > device...you can set the sample rate (in project settings/render) to anything you want (by entering value as text) if you set the audio device to "none".
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