Old 05-29-2016, 03:42 PM   #1
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default ReaInsert issue/bug?

Hi.

I use Reaper with fast PC/RME Raydat/Apogee Rosetta and few hardware units - compressors and reverbs.
Unfortunatelly I found that few instances of ReaInsert make audio playback unstable and DAW starts to react noticable slower.
Sometimes after pushing play, I can even see signal going into reverbs but hear no audio and daw is not showing any movements - after few moments starts to play.
It is not a small issue - it makes editing work annoying and fatiguing.

CPU load is around 30%.

As I remember Reapers older version had problem with hardware integration but I was sure that R5 will deliver stable ReaInsert. Is it still buggy or I`m doing it wrong?
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2016, 04:02 PM   #2
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

What's the RT CPU usage (rightlick Performance Meter to enable)?
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2016, 04:05 PM   #3
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

I`ll check tomorrow morning.
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 02:19 AM   #4
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Hi.
Total cpu is 24 %
RT cpu is 2,6%
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 04:12 AM   #5
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

I forgot to mention that reaper sometimes crash during close.
It happened again so I decided to paste crash logs

Podpis problemu:
Nazwa zdarzenia problemu: APPCRASH
Nazwa aplikacji: reaper.exe
Wersja aplikacji: 5.2.0.0
Sygnatura czasowa aplikacji: 57439c2e
Nazwa modu≥u z b≥Ídem: ntdll.dll
Wersja modu≥u z b≥Ídem: 6.1.7601.17514
Sygnatura czasowa modu≥u z b≥Ídem: 4ce7c8f9
Kod wyjπtku: c0000005
PrzesuniÍcie wyjπtku: 00000000000532d0
Wersja systemu operacyjnego: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Identyfikator ustawieÒ regionalnych: 1045
Dodatkowe informacje 1: 2195
Dodatkowe informacje 2: 2195ee4951804e64f7c9e1b983b1ca33
Dodatkowe informacje 3: 4a25
Dodatkowe informacje 4: 4a25de19f20de0bbb53695d20dd21da1

----------------------------------------------------------------------

- System

- Provider

[ Name] Application Error

- EventID 1000

[ Qualifiers] 0

Level 2

Task 100

Keywords 0x80000000000000

- TimeCreated

[ SystemTime] 2016-05-30T10:58:40.000000000Z

EventRecordID 2330

Channel Application

Computer PC

Security


- EventData

reaper.exe
5.2.0.0
57439c2e
ntdll.dll
6.1.7601.17514
4ce7c8f9
c0000005
00000000000532d0
868
01d1ba619b6a8b20
H:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\reaper.exe
H:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
7702d9d0-2655-11e6-92a8-408d5c53cf3d
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 04:26 AM   #6
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

I found that crash depends from looping playback. If I make a loop and play few times - Reaper crash on close.

So I removed all ReaInsert instances and playback is now very responsive, audio withot dropouts and no crash on close even with looped audio. Looks like ReaInsert bug/architecture to me.
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 05:22 AM   #7
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

If you have a powerful machine wou might try with this:


Preferences/Audio/Buffering:

"Anticipative FX processing" disabled
"Allow live FX multiprocessing enabled



To me it seems like there is some RAM usage issue with ReaInsert too. Empty project with 57 ReaInsert instances uses 1638 MB RAM here. Doesn't look right to me. Can't get it to crash tho.

Last edited by Dstruct; 05-30-2016 at 05:30 AM.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 05:37 AM   #8
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Thank You for response!
With settings you suggest I can hear no audio - only spikes. Maybe because of UAD card.
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 07:31 AM   #9
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

Preferences/Audio/Playback: "Run FX when stopped" might help (enabled)


I guess the best workaround would be to use REAPER's native routing (hardware out -> hardware in). Just might need manual latency compensation.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 11:58 AM   #10
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Preferences/Audio/Playback: "Run FX when stopped" might help (enabled)
This option is checked since I installed Reaper.
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2016, 11:59 AM   #11
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

Ok.


How many instances are you using? What's the Performance Meter saying in the PDC column for the whole project?
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 02:37 AM   #12
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

I use 5 Reainsert instances. I can`t find total PDC, is there any trick to display it?
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 04:34 AM   #13
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

I meant a screenshot of the Performance Meter.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 06:39 AM   #14
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

Attached a project (extreme test) where PDC seems to be miscalculated sometimes:




Sometimes all tracks getting 25600 samples PDC, sometimes Tracks 1 to 7 getting much higher values.


Maybe something for Justin to look at.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ReaInsert-PDC.jpg (51.3 KB, 183 views)
Attached Files
File Type: rpp ReaInsert-PDC.RPP (15.0 KB, 24 views)
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 08:40 AM   #15
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

PDC is quite low in my project when compare with Yours.
Some of Reainserted channels even show PDC value 0.

I changed few things:
1. In preferences/playback unchecked Flush Fx... and Run fx...options
2. Made new digital cables to connect all digital devices /spdif, AES/EBU, ADAT /
3. Redesigned my digital clock flow.
4. Set up smaller buffer size /128/.

It helped a lot - not sure what exactly but maybe every change I made helped a little.

Reaper is not crashing on close, only sometimes lags with playback but not so much as before.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PM.jpg (43.9 KB, 45 views)
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 08:44 AM   #16
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbk View Post
PDC is quite low in my project when compare with Yours.
Yeah, was just trying to make it to behave bad.


Another thing for better performance:

Don't use plugins on the Master (use a folder track instead)!
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 10:45 AM   #17
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Actually I`m not big fan of folders - i tried but lost in the bush
I prefer old, good busses - maybe it makes Reaper little confused. Is it better for performance to use folder tracks instead routing tracks to busses and busses to master?
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 10:58 AM   #18
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Dstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 11,994
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbk View Post
Is it better for performance to use folder tracks instead routing tracks to busses and busses to master?
Not really. A folder is basically the same as a bus.


But avoiding plugins on the Master definitely can help with CPU usage (because they can't be rendered ahead).
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 11:01 AM   #19
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Thank You very much for all tips, time and being so helpfull, I really appreciate it!
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 08:21 AM   #20
Bbk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
Default

I have a short break before next project so let me upgrade thread.

The issue still exist.

I use reainserts in two ways:
1. to patch external fx on aux track and route aux track to instrument bus /drum bus,vox bus etc/
2. to insert hardware on bus track /compressors/

In the last project I wanted to send all instrument buses to aux track with reainserted Lexicon PCM reverb - to add some space.It actually routed reainserted auxes to buses and buses to master and one reainserted aux.

It almost completely killed performance. To finish my work I had to bypass Lexicon track, tweak sound without it and make reverb active only during rendering.

PDC for Lexicon track was really high and was changing during playback randomly. It is similiar behaviour Dsctruct was describing few post earlier, so maybe PDC miscalculation is the point.

Reaper grows pretty fast and maybe it is good time to take care about better hardware integration - if I could help - just let me know
Bbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 04:53 AM   #21
gavin45
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3
Default Click track/Reainsert

Hi. Just wondered if anyone can help me with Reainsert? I've been trying to use it with my roland fa/06 hardware synth. If no hardware sends are selected, the ping detector doesn't seem to work. Then if I select any hardware sends, I hear the "ping" but when I go to record, the click track doesn't work anymore.
How do I get the click to work with Reinsert? I use a roland fa-06 through a focusrite 18i20 interface. Any advice on the best way to connect the synth to reaper and what settings to use would also be greatly apreciated. cheers.
gavin45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:40 AM   #22
narxistdan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbk View Post
I have a short break before next project so let me upgrade thread.

The issue still exist.

I use reainserts in two ways:
1. to patch external fx on aux track and route aux track to instrument bus /drum bus,vox bus etc/
2. to insert hardware on bus track /compressors/

In the last project I wanted to send all instrument buses to aux track with reainserted Lexicon PCM reverb - to add some space.It actually routed reainserted auxes to buses and buses to master and one reainserted aux.

It almost completely killed performance. To finish my work I had to bypass Lexicon track, tweak sound without it and make reverb active only during rendering.

PDC for Lexicon track was really high and was changing during playback randomly. It is similiar behaviour Dsctruct was describing few post earlier, so maybe PDC miscalculation is the point.

Reaper grows pretty fast and maybe it is good time to take care about better hardware integration - if I could help - just let me know
Bumping this thread to note that I'm having the same issue here. ReaInsert works beautifully for mixes with a flat architecture (no subgroups). Especially if you correct the driver reported latency numbers in the preferences, it does *everything* automatically and effortlessly - no pinging necessary, even for parallel compression. Wonderful.

However...

Right now I'm working on a mix that can run at a 128 sample buffer on my system without breaking a sweat, including a bunch of plugins and instances of ReaInsert. BUT, in order to make that work I have to bypass the ReaInsert for the compressor across the drum bus. As soon as I put a ReaInsert over the drum bus it all falls apart and chokes on play back, even with a buffer of 2048. Performance monitor still shows 20-25% usage

The issue is that there is routing within the drum bus that ReaInsert can't seem to figure out how to deal with. There are HW FX returns in it that receive from tracks that are both in and out of the subgroup. There are also sends from HW FX return tracks to other HW FX.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe this has also come up with simpler routing where it's just a ReaInsert on a track that's inside a folder that has a ReaInsert on it.

Would love to see this addressed in a future update but it seems like the devs have deemed ReaInsert "fixed," which for basic uses it seems to be. It's still not allowing me to reproduce the workflow of a LFAC, though.
narxistdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 12:35 PM   #23
mlprod
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 292
Default

I agree, for me works great when I have two instances, but when its starting to get 3 and above things can get messy. A quick overhaul from the devs would be very nice. Lots of people want to integrate HW in Reaper.
mlprod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 11:47 AM   #24
narxistdan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 30
Default

Do any regular forum users know the protocol at this point for formally reporting bugs? It seems like the problems with ReaInsert are being considered addressed as of V5, but there's still some significant issues.
narxistdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.