Old 10-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #1
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Arrow Configuring Multi-Output VSTis

Regrettably ImageShack had whacked all the images. I found the images on my computer here and have uploaded them to imgur.

Here is my own view of setting up multi-output (and multi-timbral) VSTis in Reaper 2. Nicholas has included a version of this in the User Guide and I thought that it would be useful to make the full version available.

I will describe three methods below. The "Fast-track" method is the way to choose for your first venture into multi-output VSTi routing.
  • the "Fast-track" method,
  • separate MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks,
  • combined MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks.

-----------------------------------------------------------
hopi has written a PDF guide to Multi-Out VSTis, for newcomers. You can download it from this thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=114241

-----------------------------------------------------------
There is a separate thread, for questions and comments, here:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=74278
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #2
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Default The "Fast Track" approach [Kontakt 3]

1 Load the VSTi.
Right-click in an empty area of the track control panel, select "Insert virtual instrument on new track".
The FX Browser will appear. Browse to your desired VSTi, double-click it to load it (I am using Kontakt 3, 8 outputs here).

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/QvCTiiq.png

Reaper will report that it is about to build the output audio tracks for this VSTi; click [OK].
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/TZqdWLL.png

2 You now have a single MIDI input track for the VSTi and the VSTi's output audio tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/NymCe7l.png

3 Here is the Routing panel (click [io] on the VSTi track):
- you will see that Master/Parent Send is unticked, so any audio is not sent to the Master Mixer,
- and that the channel pairs are sent to the 4 audio tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/6iMnd7j.png

4 All you have to do now is load the Instruments in the VSTi; in Kontakt 3:
- load each Instrument,
- set its input MIDI Channel, if needed,
- create the additional Kontakt Mixer channels if needed,
- set its Output to the desired Kontakt 3 Mixer channel,
- configure the Kontakt 3 Mixer, if needed, routing its output channels to the Reaper track's channels.

5 Here I am playing 2 instruments in Kontakt 3 with their audio outputs routed to Reaper tracks 2 and 4.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/uYYG3lR.png
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:08 AM   #3
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Default ... and there's more

That's the basics. Some other things you can do are:

1 Colour the audio tracks and hide the VSTi track in the Mixer:
- select the tracks, right-click and select untick "Set track colors to one random color",
- select the VSTi track, right-click and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer",
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/D9q6vSY.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/MXZMA44.png

2 Build separate MIDI Input tracks for this VSTi:
- in the FX window, click [Options] and select "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing for this track"
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/iHrMuVf.png

This would be the current Routing panel for the VSTi track:
- you will see that the track now receives MIDI Input from each of 16 tracks,
- note that all the MIDI received on each MIDI track is sent to a specific channel for that track.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/M85GbEW.png

3 Manage the MIDI tracks:
Put the MIDI Tracks in one folder, name the folder, colour the tracks and hide them in the Mixer,
- insert a new track before the first MIDI track,
- click the folder icon once to set that track to Folder Start,
- insert a new track after the last MIDI track,
- click the folder icon once to set that track to Folder End,
- double-click the folder track name and edit it,
- select all 18 tracks, right-click and select a track colour,
- right-click again and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer".

4 Enable Keyboard input for the MIDI tracks:
- click the Record [R] button on the VSTi track to turn it off,
- select all 16 MIDI tracks,
- click the Record [R] button to expand them,
- click the Recording Monitoring button to turn on Input monitoring for all 16 tracks,
- for each track, set the MIDI input channel, from 01 to 16,
- click the Record [R] button again to collapse the tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/GaM0kim.png

5 Manage the audio tracks:
- put the audio tracks in a second folder, name the folder and colour the tracks,
- colour the Folder Start track differently to make it distinct in the mixer,
- hide the Folder End track in the mixer.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/9NqHTYo.png

6 And finally:
Save the tracks as a track template.

7 Here I have enabled for Recording MIDI channels 1 and 3 only. In Kontakt the instruments are routed to its mixer channels 1 and 3, and from there to the track's channel pair 1/2 and 5/6 and thence to tracks 21 and 23. I have also collapsed both the MIDI and Audio folders in the track control area.

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/hfqoAAv.png
.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
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Default The "Fast Track" approach [SampleTank 2.5]

And here are the equivalent steps for SampleTank2.5 (32 outputs, 16 stereo channels). Yes, I know it's almost Bugatti blue but I prefer that to the Ferrari red default.

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/pumYwze.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Yqdzur7.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/HZJCZVY.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/esWbgPm.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/A60fDng.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/W3IQCJy.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/ALIIXKS.png
.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #5
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Default Separate MIDI Input and Audio Out tracks [Kontakt 3]

1 Load the VSTi onto a track:
I am using the 8-output version of Kontakt 3 here (4 stereo channels).
Click the [FX] button which opens the FX Browser, browse to the VSTi, double-click it to load it.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/wrW2GZC.png

2 Build 16 tracks of MIDI input and, for each track, select the MIDI input device/channel:
In the FX Chain window, click [Options] select "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing to this track".
For each of the MIDI tracks, right-click the Record [R] button, select the MIDI input device and channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/jwYGLXK.png

3 Build the multichannel output for the audio routing, resulting in 4 output tracks:
In the FX Chain window, click [Options] select "Build multichannel routing for output of selected FX".
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/mmWsPSR.png

4 Minimise the tracks so you can see them all:
You will now have the VSTi track, the audio output tracks and the MIDI input tracks.
Press ` to minimise them all and rename them suitably, by double clicking the existing track name and typing in the desired name.

5 Configure the routing inside the VSTi; for Kontakt 3:
- create the additional Kontakt Mixer channels if needed,
- connect each Kontakt Mixer channel to the appropriate VSTi Reaper outputs,
- route each Instrument to the desired Kontakt mixer channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Bryg488.png

6 Put all the tracks in a folder:
Add a track in front of the Kontakt 3 VSTi track and one after the last track. Set the Folder start and end settings on these two tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/hVB8bDb.png

7 You can also remove all the MIDI input tracks and the VSTi track from the Mixer:
As these tracks do not output any audio, they do not need to be represented in the Mixer.
Select the tracks, right-click and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer".
.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/v3k3ocW.png

8 Or you could put the MIDI Ins in one folder and the VSTi and Audio outs in another.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/R1Z7Ngs.png

Here I have put the VSTi and audio tracks (coloured green) in one folder, the MIDI Input tracks (coloured rose) in another. I am playing my MIDI keyboard on channel 2, receiving those notes on Reaper track "MIDI 2" and have routed this to trigger the third instrument in Kontakt, sending the audio to its third Mixerchannel (named st.3) which is routed to the third audio output track ("Kt st.3 L) and from there to the Master mixer.

Finally, and most importantly, save the setup as a Track Template. Select ALL the tracks, right-click, select "Save selected tracks as track template", enter a name and click [Save].
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:10 AM   #6
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Default Separate MIDI Input and Audio Out tracks [SampleTank 2.5]

Here's the same thing using SampleTank 2.5.

Note that I renamed the audio tracks so that their names would display in the Mixer. In real life these track names would reflect the instruments loaded in the VSTi.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/UgPq9Jh.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/nJ5L6Rw.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/uZxxyD8.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/v6csJTv.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/9cf4D2e.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/mK1Ap6x.png
.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:10 AM   #7
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Default Combined MIDI / Audio tracks [SampleTank 2.

You can also combine the input MIDI and output audio tracks. My thanks to Tallisman for defining this method.

Please note that Plugin Delay Compensation (PDC) and Feedback Routing are not compatible. If any plugins in your project introduce delay then the timing of this VSTi's track will be off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Please note:
The Feedback Routing Track Templates for VSTis were originally created as a stop-gap. A way to lessen the track count since we were not able to nest folders, nor hide tracks from the TCP.

Now we can nest folders and thanks to SWS' amazing extension we can hide tracks 'till the cows come home. So the only real advantage of AFBR Track templates for VSTis is gone... the real disadvantage remains however... PDC will break. If you want to treat the audio of one of those VSTi outputs... better make sure you are using a plugin that introduces no delay.
Also, please read this, from Justin:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=51

-------------------------------------

1 Load the VSTi onto a track:
I am using the 32-output version of SampleTank 2 here (16 stereo channels). I have loaded 4 instruments and set their outputs within SampleTank to different ST output channel pairs.

2 Build 16 tracks of MIDI input and, for each track, rename each track and select the MIDI input device/channel:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Tn6Xxkk.png

3 Build the additional Send routing, from the VSTi track back to the "MIDI" tracks:
Click the [io] button on the VSTi track, select "Add Sends to all tracks" in the "Add new send menu".
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/QgNzXub.png

4 Route the audio from the VSTi track:
Click the [io] button. In the track routing window, change the number of channels on the track to match those available within the VSTi, 32 in this case. For each of the sends that you added in the previous step, 16 in this case, change the Send source to the next pair of audio channels, 3/4, 5/6 etc.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/dS7n3hc.png

5 Enable "feedback":
This is important. At the moment, the signal routing is MIDI keyboard > MIDI > track > VSTi > audio > back to the same track. Reaper views this as potential feedback and, by default, does not allow it.

To enable this routing, click the Project Settings icon (or press lt+Enter), select the Project Settings tab and tick "Allow feedback in routing", then OK].
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/BfRGVMv.png

Note that in this case there is no audio feedback loop. But when you add further tracks to your project double-check that you do not introduce any audio routing loops, by viewing the Routing Matrix. Audio feedback loops can damage your monitors or ears or both.

6 Route the audio to the Master Mixer,
Select all the tracks, click the [io] button and enable Master/Parent Send to route the audio to the Master Mixer channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/iLR1eXN.png

7 Save it as a track template.

And here's the result:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/EJpcgvh.png

I am playing my MIDI keyboard on channel 4, receiving those MIDI notes on Reaper track "ST2.5 D", sending them to SampleTank 2.5 to trigger the Taurus Smooth Lead instrument, sending the audio to SampleTank's channels 7+8 which are routed to the track's Audio 7/8 channels which are then sent to track "ST2.5 D" and then to the Master Mixer.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:29 AM   #8
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Smile

From stratman:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
Below is a link to a pdf containing some notes I've written on using GPO Kontakt Player 2 as a multi in Reaper. But the notes are probably relevant to any multi in Kontakt Player 2 (KP2) and Kontakt 2 (K2).

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/150386/...-In-Reaper.pdf

I needed to write it down, otherwise I know I'll forget in a few months (it must be my age) . It might be of use to someone else out there.

Let me know if you spot any errors or if you know of a better way.

There are a lot of pages, but it's mostly pictures. Also, it's much easier to do in practice that in looks when it's written down.
Pete
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #9
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Arrow Fewer audio output tracks

Next episode:

Let's say that you do not want all the possible audio outputs for the VSTi. perhaps you only want 8 stereo outputs although 16 are available:

Create the output audio tracks:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/j9D4CnO.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/XjlToNT.png

Result: 16 stereo audio output tracks for the 32 outs from the VSTi:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Nx7nZDS.png

Remove the unwanted tracks:
.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/ML9iFxs.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/eXtKHpX.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/1KmyxqR.png


Check the routing from instruments to outputs within the VSTi:
-- make sure that none exceed 16 (as in the screenshot)
-- or route them in the Plug-in Pin Connector window to one of the 16 track channels
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/lLLKxvA.png

Save all 9 tracks as a track template
.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:21 AM   #10
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Default Hiding unneeded tracks and keeping PDC

Many thanks to Tallisman for posting this reply on another thread. I've edited it slightly to put the information into context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Several of us spent a long time making this work as good as possible, but there was always a price to pay. The costliest was the demise of PDC!

For this routing scheme to work you need the following for best results:
- Folder Track (to hold the whole thing)
- - VSTi Container track (multi channel = number of outs desired)
- - hybrid tracks (Midi & Audio tracks) - one per output

The hybrids must be routed to send midi to the VSTi container only (the portion of the send referring to audio is disabled! These tracks will automatically route their audio to the folder track which serves as a submix for all of the instruments outputs. The VST container track must send audio, and only audio (NO MIDI) to each of the Hybrid tracks.

Folder
| - VSTi (receives Midi but no audio from hybrids) (sends audio but no midi) (does not send audio to folder)
| - - hybrid 1: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>01 Audio None ==> none
| - - hybrid 2: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>02 Audio None ==> none
| - - hybrid x: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>x Audio None ==> none

and of course enable "allow feedback routing"

But why?
The reason I used to do it was so that my Stylus RMX or Kontakt 3 templates would not consume 38 tracks worth of GUI space. And for that I paid the price - I was not able to use some plugins on the audio returns of those instruments as some plugins would make everything fall out of sync by introducing delay.

- - - - -
Then, about a year ago, Cockos introduce a new feature. They allowed us to hide a track from either the TCP or the MCP - this was a happy day and a long time coming. With it I could now reclaim Mixer space and TCP space.

Very shortly after Cockos gave us that candy, Tim ("SWS") decided he would blow it off the hinges. The SWS extension introduced a full featured Track management feature-set.

This SWS blowout enables me to make my 38 track K3 template begin life in my projects as 4 tracks in the TCP and 4 tracks in the mixer. All 38 (or so) tracks are present in the project but most are hidden until they are needed (then deleted if not needed near mixdown). You see, the settings tweaked using the SWS extension are saved with the track templates. So, when I add the Kontakt3 template this is what happens:
-- TCP gets the Folder (submix / overall volume control) and 4 visible MIDI tracks,
-- MCP gets The Folder track and 4 visible audio tracks.

The rest are hidden from both the TCP and MCP, but can be made visible when they are needed.

Thanks to SWS I gained control over my projects and unruly VSTis without sacrificing plugin delay compensation.

greetings
.t
Also, please read this, from Justin:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=51
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:42 AM   #11
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Default

On DarkStar's request I moved all questions and remarks into the accompanying discussion thread: Darkstar's "Configuring Multi-Output VSTis" Discussion Area.

In the interest of keeping this one maintainable and informative, please use the linked thread for questions and discussion.

thanks
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