Old 01-02-2017, 07:47 AM   #81
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^^^ I'd find this useful too (ability to rename CC lanes I mean, if done via articulation files or other means doesn't actually matter to me).
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:36 AM   #82
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Cakewalk Instrument Definition (*.ins) files which can be read by Reaper for Bank/Program select also support custom CC lists, as in you can rename CC's and shorten the CC list to only show those CC which are relevant to the instrument. I think it would be very good if Reaper could read and use that part of ins files.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:50 AM   #83
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Quote:
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Cakewalk Instrument Definition (*.ins) files which can be read by Reaper for Bank/Program select also support custom CC lists, as in you can rename CC's and shorten the CC list to only show those CC which are relevant to the instrument. I think it would be very good if Reaper could read and use that part of ins files.
Ooh! That would be great!

Especially being able to hide all but the used ones!
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:34 AM   #84
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Not sure if this has been properly mentioned yet but could we also make use of these articulation files to change the names of CC messages?
OH GOD YES! Schwa, this is really overdue now...
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:16 PM   #85
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I am not seeing this button in the latest pre.

Do I have to activate something in options?

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Old 01-02-2017, 05:21 PM   #86
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I am not seeing this button in the latest pre.
It was moved out of the FX window into the MIDI editor.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:48 PM   #87
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The question is whether the mapping should happen at the source or the destination.

As it is currently, the mappings happen at the destination. Mappings are saved with the FX, wherever the FX is saved (in a project, track template, saved fx chain, etc). This seems sensible since the FX is the only consumer of the mappings, and MIDI can come in to a given FX from any track.

Mapping at the source would let us support more flexible mappings, such as mapping a notation event to a series of triggered events, chasing different types of triggered events differently, etc. We would probably manage this the way bank/program files and note names are managed, at the track level. So mappings would be saved with the track, wherever the track is saved. But not with the FX chain. And if you have multiple tracks sending MIDI to a single FX, or multiple instances of a given FX, each track would need to have the mappings loaded separately.

When I think of the old VSl Libraries there was one articulation per track - So having ONE track in the midi editor with articulation map that would enable me to switch articulaton/tracks per note on a single track would be really nice. The map would be pretty big in this case - assuming all available VSl articuations.

However for working with smaller libraries - like Spitfire Libs - that work with keyswitching within a single track / VSTI instance one map per each VSTi instance would make sense - since VSTIs using keyswitches have only a limited number of keyswitches.

I would also like to integrate the functionality of reabanks in the articulation map. As I recall this is also integrated in Steinbergs implementation but with limitations. Reabanks are great - please combine this great tool with articulation maps.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:56 PM   #88
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However for working with smaller libraries - like Spitfire Libs - that work with keyswitching within a single track / VSTI instance one map per each VSTi instance would make sense - since VSTIs using keyswitches have only a limited number of keyswitches.
I don't think the expression mapping need concern itself with which VSTi instances are handling which articulations. It's entirely MIDI routing at that point. Whether you have multiple VSTi instances or just one should be transparent to articulation management. If you want a separate Kontakt instance to handle, say, decorative articulations then you can drop them on channel 2 and build your articulation map accordingly. Or you can put them all in one Kontakt instance. It shouldn't really matter to the expression map.

Although, in the case of Spitfire, the most obvious way to set these up is to set the patches to use UACC, and have the expression map send CC 32 values. Then you can drop all the patches on the same MIDI channel if you want. (That's what I do. And I use separate MIDI channels only as needed for ad hoc layering, e.g. divisi writing.)

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Old 01-02-2017, 09:44 PM   #89
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How do Articulation Maps work, exactly? I see the load option under "File > Load" but not how it works. I'm sure I'd have interest in this as well as some ideas on how to improve it but I'm lost.

Does this feature request relate to Articulation Maps in any way?

FR: MIDI Editor: Vel/CC Lanes: Custom, snappable Grid divisions:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3538

Thanks!
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:11 AM   #90
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Read the sample articulation map in Reaper's resource folder, it explains some things
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:04 AM   #91
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Stephane, I'd like to know if articulation maps doubles your inspector's articulation management.
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:13 PM   #92
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Stephane, I'd like to know if articulation maps doubles your inspector's articulation management.
Not at all. It's totally different. File content and rules for articulation management are not the same
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:11 PM   #93
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Default dumbass here warning...

While I realize the articulation functions are still in motion, I'm trying to get some clear understanding about using them.

Right now I have a basic question, plz clear me up if you can:

Let's pretend I have two diff midi tracks, one on channel 1 the other on channel 2

both are being sent to Kontakt where there are two diff instruments loaded.

Lets say instru 1 = a violin [on chan 1] and instru 2 = a bari sax [on chan 2]

OK now each of those instruments is from a different company and each of them uses a diff set of keyswitches to change the articulations.

so 1: do I have to create and load a diff actic map file for each track, and of course, will the artic's put in to each track be specific to just that track?
[I assume this has to be the case but need confirmation cuz I'm dumbass]

and 2: if the articulation are part of a midi file created in say Sibelius and already have articualtions specified in the score, what will it take to have those implemented when that midi file gets imported to reaper?

I look to your orchestration gurus for help... and thank you kindly.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:47 PM   #94
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Quote:
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so 1: do I have to create and load a diff actic map file for each track, and of course, will the artic's put in to each track be specific to just that track?
The articulation map is specific to a track. All MIDI items on the track will share it.

Only one map can be loaded per track, so for your specific example, you would need to create an articulation map file that had configuration for both those patches.

At least that's how it seems to work right now. As you say, it's a WIP.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:01 PM   #95
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thanks ... that is how I was assuming it woiuld work...

can you also clear up this:

say I have a midi file imported from sibelius and it contains some articulations.

and that gets loaded to one track in reaper...

now I'm imaginig that if I also load a proper midi note map for the instrument [patch] for that track, that the artic's in the midi file will trigger them? Do I understand this correctly?

thanks again
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:06 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Read the sample articulation map in Reaper's resource folder, it explains some things
Thanks! I worked out the basic idea. Very cool stuff, Justin & Schwa!!

The only thing I can think to add at this point is the ability to change the font size for all MIDI Editor lanes (Notation, Bank/Program Select, etc.) They've always been difficult to read, and I have 20/20 vision with a big video monitor. A global font size for all lanes seems sensible.

I use the 'Bank/Program Select' lane to change programs in Kontakt Banks, so I probably won't use Articulation Maps, as I have my own custom .ReaBank file for my VSL sample's articulations. Oh, and I can't read notation at all.

Maybe now that REAPER has notation, I'll learn how to read it.

Thanks!
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:07 PM   #97
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Also, hopi, you might know this already being a long time user but just incase

Once you've got it all set up you can then save it as a track template so that note map, CC maps, icons, midi routing and everything else is saved in with the vsti.

It's quite a neat solution if you also use the SWS resources window.

I've got a whole orchestra I load in one go but with instruments offline so I can just online the bits I need at that point.

Works great!
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:14 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
now I'm imaginig that if I also load a proper midi note map for the instrument [patch] for that track, that the artic's in the midi file will trigger them?
I'm afraid I have no idea whether or not Reaper can consume articulation directives from MIDI generated by Sibelius or other notation software.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:33 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Also, hopi, you might know this already being a long time user but just incase

Once you've got it all set up you can then save it as a track template so that note map, CC maps, icons, midi routing and everything else is saved in with the vsti.

It's quite a neat solution if you also use the SWS resources window.

I've got a whole orchestra I load in one go but with instruments offline so I can just online the bits I need at that point.

Works great!
Yes indeed and thanks for the thoughts....
I would indeed be setting up such templates once I get it all worked out.

Do you know the answer to my other question about reading atric's from a sibelius made midi file? [look back a couple of posts plz]

I am really trying to get ahead of the organization on this not so much for my self but for my very excellent composer son. While he is great in both performance and composition in Sibelius, he is not yet very familiar with Reaper. I am currently in the process of building him a new PC [he saved up for it... wow] and his intention is to be able to orchestra with good sounds what he writes.
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:43 PM   #100
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Default midi bus routing

Please
- add an option to route everything (midi) from a track to a specific midi channel+bus right after a switcher event and forth. Something like railroad switcher.
- It is not enough to route only a note events. We need continuous controllers fore the routed note (CC same channel+bus as notes).
- Please do not forget: Note Off messages should go to the same channel+bus as a Note On was sent to. (Without note hang)

Thank you so much for fantastic flexibility!

All the best!
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:39 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDim View Post
Please
- add an option to route everything (midi) from a track to a specific midi channel+bus right after a switcher event and forth. Something like railroad switcher.
- It is not enough to route only a note events. We need continuous controllers fore the routed note (CC same channel+bus as notes).
- Please do not forget: Note Off messages should go to the same channel+bus as a Note On was sent to. (Without note hang)

Thank you so much for fantastic flexibility!

All the best!
Great point! I forgot to mention that with the latch parameter I suggested at http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=65 but that is certainly included in that concept, as any CC data should certainly go to the active patch.
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:22 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
so for your specific example, you would need to create an articulation map file that had configuration for both those patches.
Or probably two different articulation maps loaded into different tracks?
And while we are at it, may I assume that writing ONE articMap for Spitfire's UACC (https://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazon...UACCv2spec.pdf) is suffice enough for all of their great libraries?

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Old 01-04-2017, 01:36 AM   #103
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That was the whole point behind UACC, so I'm inclined to say "yes".
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Old 01-04-2017, 03:19 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Yes indeed and thanks for the thoughts....
I would indeed be setting up such templates once I get it all worked out.

Do you know the answer to my other question about reading atric's from a sibelius made midi file? [look back a couple of posts plz]

I am really trying to get ahead of the organization on this not so much for my self but for my very excellent composer son. While he is great in both performance and composition in Sibelius, he is not yet very familiar with Reaper. I am currently in the process of building him a new PC [he saved up for it... wow] and his intention is to be able to orchestra with good sounds what he writes.
I don't unfortunately sorry.
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:43 AM   #105
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Default Help with ArticMap

I've just begun to take a look at the Articulation Maps functionality, but I haven't been able to trigger CC values with it. My first try is for Orange Tree's Strawberry, and I have set every playing technique to a CC17 value inside the instrument. I load the ArticMap which I attach below and the list of note text names appears in the context menu, but no cc value is triggered. I've changed various things without success, but probably any of you will be faster in indicating what is wrong...

Thank you in advance.
Attached Files
File Type: reaperarticmap Evolution Strawberry.ReaperArticMap (676 Bytes, 27 views)
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:13 AM   #106
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Two things I see:
You should (as of now, hopefully it will become more graceful) remove the "" from all text names which are a single word. In the moment only text with whitespace needs them, so leave them in for "Half Palm Mute" and the like.

Since pre7 note notation need a channel assignment, (between trigger type (cc) and the (in your case) CC number. If you want the original channel of the note you can set a * as placeholder. For example the first two assignments should look like so:
Code:
note text Sustain : cc * 17 0
note text "Half Palm Mute" : cc * 17 5
Haven't tested CC at all, so I'm not sure whether it will help right there, but sure do hope so
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:26 AM   #107
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Thank you very much, Gofer!!! It was that, indeed!
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:33 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
say I have a midi file imported from sibelius and it contains some articulations.

and that gets loaded to one track in reaper...

now I'm imaginig that if I also load a proper midi note map for the instrument [patch] for that track, that the artic's in the midi file will trigger them?
A MIDI file exported from Sibelius won't contain any articulations. There is no MIDI standard for articulations.

If Sibelius, MusicXML, and REAPER all support some particular articulation, then they can be imported to REAPER that way.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:49 AM   #109
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Regarding quotation marks -- technically the only way for the articulation map to unambiguous is if the string matches how REAPER stores it exactly, including quotation marks, because the event itself could contain quotation marks.

Like perhaps if the composer is trying to give an ironic direction:

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Old 01-04-2017, 10:36 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
A MIDI file exported from Sibelius won't contain any articulations. There is no MIDI standard for articulations.

If Sibelius, MusicXML, and REAPER all support some particular articulation, then they can be imported to REAPER that way.
thamks Schwa... ummm did some testing last night on exports from Sibelius and find what you say is [sadly] so...

Well the XML files do contain some... but I need you to have a look. How they come into Reaper raises as many questions as it answers:

The file is here on the stash:
http://stash.reaper.fm/v/29396/Sax_V...iculations.xml


OK... it is two instruments, each on it's own track, a violin and a tenor sax.

After importing to Reaper, plz look at the midi tracks in all the views of the editor....

I'm sure you'll see the "way too much info" on the violin track... all the "staff 1 stem 1" kind of things..
I quess we should talk more after you guys and others have a look.


Thanks much
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:33 PM   #111
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Default some kind soul plz

pretty please... would anyone with a brain give me a little example of how
the following should be formatted into the Artic map file?

Sustain Vibrato C7
Sustain B6
Bend Down A#6
Run Octave Down D6

I freely admit to being dumb but once I 'get it' I can carry on %^)

Thanks in advance
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:40 PM   #112
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note articulation "sustain vibrato": keyswitch * 108 127
note articulation sustain: keyswitch * 107 127
note articulation "bend down": keyswitch * 106 127
note articulation "run octave down": keyswitch * 105 127


It's pretty nicely explained in the sample .ReaperArticMap...
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Old 01-04-2017, 03:50 PM   #113
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thanks ED... yeah but I sadly need some hand holding on this...

one part of that is assuming a Kontakt instrument... and the offset used in reaper note names, is middle C note 60? ...and is that C3 or C4...???

[bear with me plz... I know it must be painful... ]
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:02 PM   #114
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In Kontakt, C3 is middle C (60).
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:39 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
thanks ED... yeah but I sadly need some hand holding on this...

one part of that is assuming a Kontakt instrument... and the offset used in reaper note names, is middle C note 60? ...and is that C3 or C4...???

[bear with me plz... I know it must be painful... ]
Eh, you're not alone. I can load an articulation map file but it doesn't seem to appear in the notation context menu, even after resetting the context menu back to default. :/

Totally lost at sea here.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:11 PM   #116
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Today I made my first articulation map, and I have a question that I haven't been able to find a definite answer to in the various threads. Presumably this is because it's simply not implemented yet, but I'll ask anyway:

Are dual text notations possible? I have arco setting note channel, and vibrato controlling modwheel value, but obviously they don't both work at once. Is it possible to create a single entry that combines both these operations? As far as I can tell, each mapping definition can do one type of trigger only

Besides that, is it possible to make an articulation trigger a change in velocity? Accent for example giving velocity 100 to the attached note. I think this would be useful (and/or to be able to set a velocity offset)

Edit: new pre answered my question about simultaneous vibrato and articulation

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Old 01-04-2017, 06:44 PM   #117
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In Kontakt, C3 is middle C (60).
OK well I'll have to change some settings then for note name files since I have an octave offset...

no wait... I see C4 and 60.... where have I gone wrong????

Still... must be not understanding something really basic:

OK, well can open te notation view and put in dynamics from the list... I get that much...

but then what do we do for an instrument that has other keyswitches? Trill, Run Octave Up, etc, etc. ...???

is there a way to add such things to the context menu?

EDIT: PS didn't there used to be a pref setting to change or offset the default numbering in the piano roll?
I'm talking about the C note numbers that reaper shows regadless of if you have a note names file loaded.. the C0,C1,C2 etc text that is on the octave keys
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:09 AM   #118
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This was discussed before already, but just wanted to add a vote to the idea of recording articulations. Would be great to be able to select the active articulation via OSC, so you can have a controller (I'm using iPad+Lemur in Cubase) to apply them while you're playing.

Also personally I feel the articulation selection should be sticky not just during the take, but also between takes. Cubase defaults to resetting it when you stop the transport, which I hated enough to write an AutoHotkey script that reads incoming MIDI and sends the most recent articulation key again every time I press play! I guess this indicates my playing is terrible, since I keep doing passages multiple times, but oh well...

But given Steinberg's choice there, I guess there will be different wishes for this. Cubase also supports "hold key down" articulations where it always reverts to the default articulation when you let go, which I've never understood, but again I'm sure that fits someone's workflow since it is there. Perhaps a setting would be in order?

EDIT: Just to add, I think the hold key down one is the least used, so if you want to make the system simpler, that's probably one option you can leave out. Anyone with a different experience?

Last edited by paaltio; 01-05-2017 at 01:11 AM. Reason: addendum
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:27 AM   #119
EvilDragon
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@hopi - for Reaper, octave offset is in Preferences->Media->MIDI. You'll want it at -1 to match with Kontakt.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:45 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDim View Post
Please
- add an option to route everything (midi) from a track to a specific midi channel+bus right after a switcher event and forth. Something like railroad switcher.
- It is not enough to route only a note events. We need continuous controllers fore the routed note (CC same channel+bus as notes).
- Please do not forget: Note Off messages should go to the same channel+bus as a Note On was sent to. (Without note hang)

Thank you so much for fantastic flexibility!

All the best!
Things are getting really complicated regarding the second point (CC routing).
Consider that you might want to have simultaneous notes (iow a chord) each being directed to a different channel. Easiest case: One of the notes stays on the original channel, the other one gets redirected. If channel-redirection of a note would simply redirect all CC to the new channel, then the other note would lose its CC automation.

If instead a duplicate of the CC would get routed to the new channel, then both would get their automation, but you wouldn't be able to give each note its own CC curve anymore.
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