Old 05-19-2017, 11:15 AM   #1
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Default v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017

v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
+ VST3: IContextInfoHandler2/IContextInfoProvider2 support
+ Windows: support receiving ASIO overload notifications
# Automation items: add option to trim existing items behind edited items
# Automation items: edits to unselected items do not affect selected items when other pooled items are affected [p=1843967]
# Automation items: fix item length after re-looping [p=1843705]
# Automation items: fix undo after closing automation item properties dialog [p=1843695]
# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]
# Automation items: ignore "edits affect pooled copies" option when copying
# Automation items: improve "collect points" behavior when editing pooled automation items
# Automation items: improve ripple editing behavior
# Preferences: add "trim content behind media items when editing" to Preferences/Project/Media item defaults
# Video: try to open .aac files with video decoders


Full changelog - Latest pre-releases

I was using great script by Edgemeal to create this changelog. The link: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/30246/Reape...%20Release.zip

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Old 05-19-2017, 11:32 AM   #2
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How should AIs work with VCAs and "Envelope: apply all VCAs to selected tracks and remove from VCA groups" when an AI is on the VCA track?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
+ VST3: IContextInfoHandler2/IContextInfoProvider2 support
+ Windows: support receiving ASIO overload notifications
awesome! So maybe someone could script a marker to drop in places where this might have happened
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:18 PM   #4
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Creating new pooled AI's is broken with "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on.


  • Create AI with option-left drag (macOS) (draw a pooled copy of the selected automation item)
  • Select created AI
  • Create AI with option-left drag (macOS) (draw a pooled copy of the selected automation item)
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:25 PM   #5
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Collect points with "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on gives different results depending on what was selected last!



Easy-replication:
  • Create an AI on a Volume Track (1)
  • Create a pooled copy of (1) starting at the same time on a Pan Track
  • Collect Left (Cmd-left drag macOS).
  • Alternate this process after selecting the 'other ai' once.
  • Try this process after selecting back and forth manually.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:30 PM   #6
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With "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on, Collecting points only can collect the bottom AI.



Gif should be self-explanatory.

This may not be strictly a bug per-se, however I think the expectation would be that the selected, or acted upon, AI is what consumes the envelope.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:38 PM   #7
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When writing automation manually, if the written automation crosses an AI boundary, then the automation seems to almost always be written 1-2 points "late" to the AI.



The gif doesn't show an example where it's particularly problematic, however there are times when that automation point that ends up 'under' the AI is a vital part of a complex motion.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:42 PM   #8
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Regarding posts 5 and 6, maybe the best solution is for the "affects all pooled automation items" option not to apply to the "collect points" mouse modifier?
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:43 PM   #9
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http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=25

^^

This behaviour still exists. How points can be moved relative to other points depends on the current snap to grid setting.

This appears to be a regression, since 5.40 behaves sensibly.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Regarding posts 5 and 6, maybe the best solution is for the "affects all pooled automation items" option not to apply to the "collect points" mouse modifier?


That seems reasonable. It seems like it's a lot of source of headaches.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:52 PM   #11
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While checking old bugs... I ran in to this guy again: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=46



However this time I saved the project with undo history. It is attached to this post.
Attached Files
File Type: zip weirdbug.zip (56.9 KB, 8 views)
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:53 PM   #12
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This still happens consistently: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=47

Related:

When splitting overlapping items, sometimes AIs get oddly re-ordered. Sometimes they do not.

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Old 05-19-2017, 02:01 PM   #13
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Splitting an AI makes a pooled copy.

Media items and Midi items do not do this. Is that intentional?
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:09 PM   #14
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Simple item copy to a new track with "points move with items" was working in Pre8, broken in Pre9...

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Old 05-19-2017, 02:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
Hallelujah !
Many thanks for this Cockos !

For the ones interested in this option:
I noticed this option can be found by right-clicking in the time indicator area of the Transport Bar.
It seems, by default, the option is now turned OFF. (great !).
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:12 PM   #16
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# Video: try to open .aac files with video decoders
Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:36 PM   #17
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For the ones interested in this option:
I noticed this option can be found by right-clicking in the time indicator area of the Transport Bar.
It seems, by default, the option is now turned OFF. (great !).
Thanks, I was wondering where to find it (checked device settings but no dice).
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:37 PM   #18
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# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]

Gutted, i was hoping this mean't we could select points inside an automation item and run actions, this badly needs adding
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]

Gutted, i was hoping this mean't we could select points inside an automation item and run actions, this badly needs adding


To elaborate, here's a list of non-script actions that don't seem to work on points in AIs:
  • Envelope: Copy points within time selection (Copies the AI, not the points)
  • Envelope: Copy selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
  • Envelope: Cut points within time selection (Cuts the AI, not the points)
  • Envelope: Cut selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)

SWS/BR actions largely don't work correctly. I haven't found any that do in a quick look.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
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While checking old bugs
Finally fixed this one, thanks for including the undo history!
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:01 AM   #21
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Collecting points leaves an 'edge point' of the AI behind.


  • Collect points with AI over existing envelope points (edge-left drag macOS)
  • Move AI to reveal underlying envelope

The collection action seems to create a new edge point that's added to both the AI and the underlying envelope.

Option-left drag to consume points with a new AI acts like I'd expect.



I understand that the AI needs a new point added when collecting, but the underlying envelope should not get that point.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:08 AM   #22
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The mouse modifier "Move automation items relative to other selected items" is available as a left-drag option.

If this is intentional, then it doesn't work.



Shouldn't this be for the "Automation Item" context?
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The mouse modifier "Move automation items relative to other selected items" is available as a left-drag option.

If this is intentional, then it doesn't work.

Shouldn't this be for the "Automation Item" context?
You need at least 3 selected items at different positions for this to have an effect.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:25 AM   #24
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If layered, they are handled as two envelopes in series.
There's still an 'issue' when any AI has an -Inf value. All other envelopes values are cancelled. Previously reported here: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=21



This is a problem because when mouse-editing, even on a high-res monitor with a very large envelope lane, the lowest value you can drag to is about -50dbFS before it snaps to -inf.

It's also easy to end up with a -inf value when using external controllers. Possible to even end up cancelling out all your overlapped envelopes when writing data in the Latch automation mode!

I don't know what the suggested behaviour is, however there's been probably a dozen times where I thought my envelope was bugged because an -inf value ended up on an overlapped AI.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:29 AM   #25
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Quote:
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You need at least 3 selected items at different positions for this to have an effect.
I suggest trying this with various selections of 3+ items. It doesn't work consistently at all.

I've only found 1 case where it actually does something: when right-edge editing 3 overlapping items at different times. Any other selection of 3+ items does something different.

I can make another gif of various selections of 3+ items if you'd like.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:37 AM   #26
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There's still an 'issue' when any AI has an -Inf value. All other envelopes values are cancelled.
That's the intended behavior. Imagine that you have two volume faders in a row. If either of the faders is at -inf, the output should be silent.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:38 AM   #27
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I suggest trying this with various selections of 3+ items. It doesn't work consistently at all.

I've only found 1 case where it actually does something: when right-edge editing 3 overlapping items at different times. Any other selection of 3+ items does something different.

I can make another gif of various selections of 3+ items if you'd like.
Please do illustrate cases where it doesn't work as expected.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:50 AM   #28
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That's the intended behavior. Imagine that you have two volume faders in a row. If either of the faders is at -inf, the output should be silent.
I think the issue is how easy it is to end up with -inf values in envelopes.

It's totally fine with the current envelope system, but with overlapping AIs it gets rather confusing.

Take this example:


  1. In the first example with the Parametric LFO at an amplitude of 100; my highest value of the combine envelope is -1.82dbFS. My lowest value is a huge jump down to -inf. The visual representation of a modulated sine is not what's being rendered.
  2. In the first example with the Parametric LFO at an amplitude of 99; my highest value of the combine envelope is -1.86dbFS. My lowest value is -46.2dbFS. The visual representation of a modulated sine is intact.


So I won't beat this to death, but I wish to restate that I understand the logical idea behind this. However, the resulting behaviour is unintuitive and can cause unexpected behaviour that's difficult to track down.

Thank you for humouring me in this specific topic.
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:03 AM   #29
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Please do illustrate cases where it doesn't work as expected.
Ok, so I guess I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to work here or something. It only works if you left-drag the right most or left most selected item.

I think this is my mistake then. The name of the command doesn't make much sense to me.

---

However, there is a visual bug when you do this...



Edit: This is not just a visual bug. The AI's don't work at all when they overlap the envelope!
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:09 AM   #30
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So I won't beat this to death, but I wish to restate that I understand the logical idea behind this.

With respect .. this behavior is intended and, I believe, preferable to any alternative. -46dbFS to -inf is not actually a huge jump. That change represents the equivalent movement on the volume fader as going from +0.0 to +0.01. In amplitude terms, -46dbFS is one-half of one percent of full scale. So, it's an expected result when changing the LFO amplitude by one percent. I think we are now beating this to death
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:53 AM   #31
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To elaborate, here's a list of non-script actions that don't seem to work on points in AIs:
  • Envelope: Copy points within time selection (Copies the AI, not the points)
  • Envelope: Copy selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
  • Envelope: Cut points within time selection (Cuts the AI, not the points)
  • Envelope: Cut selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)

SWS/BR actions largely don't work correctly. I haven't found any that do in a quick look.
There are no actions that work on selected points within in an AI, it is a terribly flawed design, this is going to annoy a lot of people in use.
Having to slice an AI to run actions on it is just bizarre (Edit, i mistyped here, i meant having to create a time selection)
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:55 AM   #32
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There are no actions that work on selected points within in an AI, it is a terribly flawed design, this is going to annoy a lot of people in use.
Having to slice an AI to run actions on it is just bizarre
I don't think that's correct. I tried literally every envelope point action when writing that post. The only ones that didn't work were what I listed.

Can you give a specific example?
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:49 AM   #33
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copy paste unlooped automation item with start offset.

https://goo.gl/LTf3au
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:15 PM   #34
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I don't think that's correct. I tried literally every envelope point action when writing that post. The only ones that didn't work were what I listed.

Can you give a specific example?
No point actions work on selected points within an automation item, they only work on selected automation items, so i cant select half the points inside an automation item and run the reduce points action for instance.
It will reduce the points of the entire automation item.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:16 AM   #35
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No point actions work on selected points within an automation item, they only work on selected automation items, so i cant select half the points inside an automation item and run the reduce points action for instance.
It will reduce the points of the entire automation item.
Those commands don't work on selected points outside AIs either though. They apply to the whole envelope.

So I assume that working on the whole AI is intended.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:55 PM   #36
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My point is (Pun fully intended) that it is a flawed design, just because the original automation system had a flaw, does it mean we should carry it through to the new system ?

You can run the reduce action only in time selection, which is bad UX, most people will expect to just make a point selection, not have to make a time selection.

I am not sure why these features are considered strange, it just makes sense, select points, run point actions on only those points, no points selected, run point action on selected automation item or selected envelope lane if no automation item selected or present.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:02 PM   #37
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My point is (Pun fully intended) that it is a flawed design, just because the original automation system had a flaw, does it mean we should carry it through to the new system ?

You can run the reduce action only in time selection, which is bad UX, most people will expect to just make a point selection, not have to make a time selection.

I am not sure why these features are considered strange, it just makes sense, select points, run point actions on only those points, no points selected, run point action on selected automation item or selected envelope lane if no automation item selected or present.
I think you'd get a better response if you phrased your request more thoroughly.

The issue isn't that a bunch of actions don't work on AIs (since many DO work), it's that you want 2 specific actions to work differently than they do currently.


So it seems that the request is that it would be very useful to have the 2 following actions:
  • Envelope: Reduce number of points in selected points
  • Envelope: Reduce number of selected points by half

And perhaps to have the current commands to be renamed to indicate that they work on the whole AI/envelope or time selection.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:09 AM   #38
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Not a bug, but a request:



It's rather difficult to grab a point when it's in the lower right or lower left of an AI. There's 4 possible zones here and they are really close together.

A large part of the issue is that the cursor changes make it difficult to know where the cursor is pointing so you can adjust to find the envelope point.

I do not have a suggestion for how to improve this, but it's been very annoying to deal with when using AIs in actual production.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:14 AM   #39
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awesome! So maybe someone could script a marker to drop in places where this might have happened
Yes! Please ☺👍🍺
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #40
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I think you'd get a better response if you phrased your request more thoroughly.

The issue isn't that a bunch of actions don't work on AIs (since many DO work), it's that you want 2 specific actions to work differently than they do currently.


So it seems that the request is that it would be very useful to have the 2 following actions:
  • Envelope: Reduce number of points in selected points
  • Envelope: Reduce number of selected points by half

And perhaps to have the current commands to be renamed to indicate that they work on the whole AI/envelope or time selection.
Erm no
All point based actions should run how i previously stated.
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