Old 05-23-2017, 08:27 AM   #1
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,273
Default v5.50pre10 - May 23 2017

+ FX: fix undo behavior with TCP parameters and learn [p=1845984]
# Automation items: fix inconsistent behavior when collecting points [p=1846667]
# Automation items: fix moving automation items across tracks when moving media items [p=1846674
# Automation items: only apply "edits affect other pooled items" for items with the same start and end times [p=1846646]
# Envelopes: add action to reduce points by half within time selection
# VST3: fix setContextInfoValue(kPan)
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 05:14 PM   #2
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 4,768
Default

OMG can't wait to test env point time selection reduction! Thanks in advance fantastic devs!
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 09:19 PM   #3
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,974
Default

"add action to reduce points by half within time selection"

I've never used actions to reduce envelope points before. What am I missing out on?
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 04:20 AM   #4
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 4,768
Default

This works perfectly. Thanks Devs !!

@EpicSounds
When you draw an envelope, it often shotguns a ton of points. This lets you reduce them to what you might have wanted.

Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 05:45 AM   #5
Travesty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 181
Default

If you like to manipulate the envelopes by hand after you've drawn them, these actions make it more manageable to do so
Travesty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 06:25 AM   #6
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

I didn't find any bugs in the first hour of using it today...

We're getting closer!
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 06:51 AM   #7
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 18,556
Default

Waiting on Embass to post something...
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 09:14 AM   #8
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,307
Default

Quote:
"add action to reduce points by half within time selection"

I've never used actions to reduce envelope points before. What am I missing out on?
In the midi editor, if the CCs accumulate to a large number, it can start to slow the computer down.

I supose it's the same for the envelope points?
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 10:02 AM   #9
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
I didn't find any bugs in the first hour of using it today...

We're getting closer!
That's a fantastic sign!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 10:16 AM   #10
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,273
Default Bug. Drag copying audio item with AIs selected doesn't move AIs

I spoke to soon!

This is a crucial use case for a lot of sound design that was working and isn't anymore so maybe I've managed to break something?

I've got "move envelope with media items off" but if I try and selected an audio item and say 2 AI items (on the same track) that are longer than the audio item and then copy drag them.

Either:

1. only one of the 2 AI items copies along with the audio item.
or
2. The audio item copies but the AIs duplicate and then stay in place/overlap instead of copying to the new dragged location.

Overhanging automation and being able to copy it easy is definitely a big one for sound design and my favourite feature here so unless I'm doing something wrong, I think this needs looking at before release

Also, being able to group AI to normal items so they edit and act as one is something I hope will come at some point too (I think it was mentioned by Schwa but I might be dreaming it!)

EDIT: moving doesn't work either, not just copying. Even tried putting the envelopes on the same track (no lanes) and selecting it all but moving the audio item leaves the AIs behind
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 10:40 AM   #11
Edgemeal
Human being with feelings
 
Edgemeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 87
Default

Sorry if dumb question, Is this the expected behavior/rule?


AI that extend past item get cropped at item end.


AI that extend past item Do Not get cropped when inside Time Selection.


Thanks!
Edgemeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 11:31 AM   #12
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 18,556
Default

I think it could be, yeah.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 01:08 PM   #13
DANIELE
Human being with feelings
 
DANIELE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 104
Default

I need a way to draw envelopes only on time selection avoiding drawing envelope out of it in the first pre-record measures during recording.

Is there a way to do so with this automation clips?
__________________
Audio: AKG-K240 MKII, Steinberg UR22; Piano: Yamaha P-250;
!!DANIELE EPIC ORCHESTRAL MUSIC!! |*| STAR WARS SERIES
DANIELE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 04:14 AM   #14
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 9,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Is this the expected behavior/rule?
That is by design, yes.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 04:17 AM   #15
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 9,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DANIELE View Post
I need a way to draw envelopes only on time selection avoiding drawing envelope out of it in the first pre-record measures during recording.

Is there a way to do so with this automation clips?
If I'm understanding the request correctly, yes:

schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:32 AM   #16
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

This report by embass still seems to happen http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=56

The whole undo cycle after that process is pretty weird too.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:43 AM   #17
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

AIs switch lanes when undoing after paste


  • Create AI
  • Copy
  • Paste a sequence of them butted end-to-end
  • Undo

Also note that there's quite a few scenarios where AIs seem to randomly change lanes when undoing. I'll try to find my old report of this.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:44 AM   #18
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

This strange regression since v5.40 still exists

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=25
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:46 AM   #19
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

AI's changing positions on undo still exists: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=47

This is also extremely annoying if you use overlapping AIs.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:49 AM   #20
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=43

This happens fairly frequently to me. Despite the simple example in that post, it seems to happen fairly regularly when 'normally editing' AIs just due to the nature of looping/moving points.

Seems like post #18 in this thread is related?
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:59 AM   #21
Gianfini
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=43

This happens fairly frequently to me. Despite the simple example in that post, it seems to happen fairly regularly when 'normally editing' AIs just due to the nature of looping/moving points.

Seems like post #18 in this thread is related?
re this post and post 18:

Honestly I much prefer this new behavior (point that doesn't go beyond the next/previous point), since many times I just try to do vertical adjustments to points and accidentally if they are very close, I go past another point and have the envelope completely screwed...

I think there was even a request about it from another user

g
__________________
FR: Mark visibly the tracks that have been frozen totally or partially
FR: groove management (for audio items) a lá Logic or Studio
Gianfini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 07:14 AM   #22
Fergler
Human being with feelings
 
Fergler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,325
Default

3 days and still no post from Embass. I think it's almos ready.
__________________
Check out my hip-hop, funk-rock band Theatre Crisp
Fergler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 08:14 AM   #23
swiiscompos
Human being with feelings
 
swiiscompos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
This strange regression since v5.40 still exists

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=25
I agree, I noticed that when working on a project yesterday. I prefer by far the old behavior.
swiiscompos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 08:24 AM   #24
DANIELE
Human being with feelings
 
DANIELE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
If I'm understanding the request correctly, yes:

Yes!! This is what I need!!

Finally, a great improvement in automation recording.

Actually I have to be very careful not to touch the slider or not to breathe in the breath controller until the play cursor is in the time selection for the first recording cycle.
__________________
Audio: AKG-K240 MKII, Steinberg UR22; Piano: Yamaha P-250;
!!DANIELE EPIC ORCHESTRAL MUSIC!! |*| STAR WARS SERIES
DANIELE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 01:04 PM   #25
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianfini View Post
re this post and post 18:

Honestly I much prefer this new behavior (point that doesn't go beyond the next/previous point), since many times I just try to do vertical adjustments to points and accidentally if they are very close, I go past another point and have the envelope completely screwed...

I think there was even a request about it from another user

g
The problem is that you end up with points that are totally immovable (or barely moveable). They can't be moved left or right at all. It's not too difficult to work around after you spend a few minutes figuring out WTF is happening.

The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.

The request that you're speaking of I think is ovnis, starting at post 65 here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191557

Except there's nothing in the changelogs about this changing.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.

Last edited by Robert Randolph; 05-26-2017 at 01:10 PM.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 12:31 AM   #26
Gianfini
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The problem is that you end up with points that are totally immovable (or barely moveable). They can't be moved left or right at all. It's not too difficult to work around after you spend a few minutes figuring out WTF is happening.

The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.

The request that you're speaking of I think is ovnis, starting at post 65 here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191557

Except there's nothing in the changelogs about this changing.
Yes I agree, having it as an option or mouse modifier would be perfect. Kind of "move point (can go past next point)" and "move point (can't go past next point)".

Nevertheless if I'm forced to choose either one or the other, I prefer this behavior.

Please devs can you make it optional?

g
__________________
FR: Mark visibly the tracks that have been frozen totally or partially
FR: groove management (for audio items) a lá Logic or Studio
Gianfini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 04:03 AM   #27
Vagalume
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 188
Default

+1111
Vagalume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 09:17 AM   #28
jnif
Human being with feelings
 
jnif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,006
Default

Bugs and unexpected behaviour with automation items:


1. Cursor drawing bug when inserting AI using keyboard shortcut.

2. Two overlapping points inserted at the start of AI. Is this by design? It feels confusing.

3. "Delete point" does not work in popup menu. Mouse modifier works.

Sorry if these have been reported already. I have just started testing and did not read all old bug reports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.
Is it possible to edit existing envelope points only vertically like MIDI CCs in this example?


jnif
jnif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 12:16 PM   #29
jnif
Human being with feelings
 
jnif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,006
Default

Is gluing an automation item supposed to work like this?


I'm trying to use a workflow where I use only item based automation. But the glue behaviour shown above makes it difficult. I think it would be better if glue would not add any points to the underlying (non-AI) track envelope.

jnif
jnif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 01:18 PM   #30
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Is gluing an automation item supposed to work like this?


I'm trying to use a workflow where I use only item based automation. But the glue behaviour shown above makes it difficult. I think it would be better if glue would not add any points to the underlying (non-AI) track envelope.

jnif
The way your AI is working overall in that image is totally different than how it works here normally.

There's something else happening. It seems like your points are outside the AI, not inside it.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 01:28 PM   #31
Robert Randolph
Human being with feelings
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 409
Default

Toggling off automation looping with can change the envelope in an unwanted manner.


  • Create AI
  • Set Shape to Parametric
  • Toggle Loop off

I suppose it's because the 'next point' is actually at the beginning of the AI, not the end. When the loop is removed there's nothing for it to ramp to.

However, it still can create some issues when toggling a loop off since the shape changes.

It also happens without LFO shapes.



I had this cause an issue today after unlooping then gluing an AI. It was rather confusing since I didn't notice right away that unlooping made me 'lose' a point.
__________________
http://www.admiralbumblebee.com
Audio/DAW stuff, Woodworking, Programming and more... new posts twice a week or more.
Robert Randolph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 02:01 PM   #32
jnif
Human being with feelings
 
jnif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The way your AI is working overall in that image is totally different than how it works here normally.

There's something else happening. It seems like your points are outside the AI, not inside it.
AFAIK the points (before glue) are not outside the AI.
I have just changed the preference in "Editing Behavior / Automation / Connect to underlying envelope on:" to "Right side".

jnif
jnif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 04:58 AM   #33
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 9,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
AFAIK the points (before glue) are not outside the AI.
I have just changed the preference in "Editing Behavior / Automation / Connect to underlying envelope on:" to "Right side".
This behavior should be improved in the next build.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 06:17 AM   #34
DANIELE
Human being with feelings
 
DANIELE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This behavior should be improved in the next build.
Any news about the articulation mapper?
__________________
Audio: AKG-K240 MKII, Steinberg UR22; Piano: Yamaha P-250;
!!DANIELE EPIC ORCHESTRAL MUSIC!! |*| STAR WARS SERIES
DANIELE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #35
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 9,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DANIELE View Post
Any news about the articulation mapper?
Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 06:45 AM   #36
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
Very sad to hear that.. was really looking forward to the massive improvements it would have made to work flow.

Even a basic version of it would have been a big help to dealing with orchestration (which is more and more common these days).

Any particular reason why that you can/would want to share?

Maybe there's a work around for these issues or a compromise that could still get it done as it seemed to be going well.

Could it be opened up for discussion in the other thread?
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 07:15 AM   #37
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 18,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
So basically you guys lost all interest in making it nice and usable visually (it worked just fine with the current text method, but composers wouldn't want to deal with all that, mostly - that's why GUI editing of artic maps is so important) and support the working composer area of the market who can't stand Cubase & co? Not nice news at all...

Some reasons would definitely be great to know about why. Huge opportunity missed.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 07:42 AM   #38
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 9,137
Default

I would estimate that the articulation mapping feature is 60% complete at the infrastructure level and 0% complete at the UI level. The work that was done is on hold until we have the development resources to complete it. It will likely be a v6 feature.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 07:45 AM   #39
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 18,556
Default

That sounds more encouraging than "indefinitely on hold"!


(Also, it kinda DOES make sense to make it a major version feature...)
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 08:22 AM   #40
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I would estimate that the articulation mapping feature is 60% complete at the infrastructure level and 0% complete at the UI level. The work that was done is on hold until we have the development resources to complete it. It will likely be a v6 feature.
That's definitely better to hear than indefinite phew..

What about releasing it as a feature you can enable (via config text file) as it is so that people who don't mind no ui can still use it and test it?

That might help to save time with later development of it too since the infrastructure side can can get redefined more before the UI sits on top of that.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.