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Old 10-20-2011, 11:25 AM   #41
Marah Mag
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Hi DarkStar and all. I hesitate to ask this question because the answer might already be in the above.... which I've read and tried to follow... but... well... anyway... here goes.... Apologies in advance for redundancy and denseness on my part....

I know how to set up a multi out VSTi to receive MIDI from separate MIDI-only tracks, and to send its output to a different set of audio-only tracks. (For reference, I'm using Addictive Drums.)

What I would like to do is have a single track for both the MIDI that's being sent to the VSTi and the audio.

This appears to be what was originally described as:

# combined MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks

But I haven't been able to get this to work.

I'm not even sure if it's possible, especially if I don't want to have to mess with PDC and/or feedback routing issues, etc.

Basically, when not dealing with multiple outputs, a single track can send to and receive from the VSTi. I would like to have that same one-to-one correspondence with multiple outs.

Is that both possible AND practical?

Thanks you!
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:56 PM   #42
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Asking is always better than not asking.

Yes, and not sure.

With the "Combined" tracks you need to enable Feedback Routing (in Project Settings, Advanced tab) and PDC will not be correct.

What problem did you run into?
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #43
matthias.matthias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marah Mag View Post
What I would like to do is have a single track for both the MIDI that's being sent to the VSTi and the audio.
Me too! Almost desperately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
With the "Combined" tracks you need to enable Feedback Routing (in Project Settings, Advanced tab) and PDC will not be correct
It's not only that (I could live with that by not using plugins that introduce any delay), but there is a delay on each channel in "feedback" depending on the buffer size of your soundcard.

There is a feature request in my signature torwards solving this problem. Please consider voting for it. Thanks.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:14 PM   #44
Marah Mag
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Using the info in this thread, and in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkDXdrvYKlg it's actually pretty straight forward. But it still doesn't get you to a common midi/audio track when using multiple outs.

These 2 pics use the same routing, with 3 midi tracks sending to a common Kontakt instance, which then sends to 3 corresponding audio tracks.

The only difference between the 2 pics is that in the first, the audio/midi pair are organized into folders.

With folders:


Without folders:


What I'd like to have is something like this, which doesn't seem possible:

Single tracks (not possible?):
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:21 PM   #45
Marah Mag
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It's not as though doing it as separate tracks is always undesirable.

But it would be good to have the option for single tracks that didn't involve the mental overhead of feedback routing and so on.

As I just posted in another thread on the same subject, what I don't get is why it's possible to have a single track both send midi to a VSTi and receive audio from the same vst when you are NOT using multiple outs from the vsti, but the same arrangement isn't possible when you ARE using multi outs.

What's the difference between the two situations? Why is 'feedback' an issue in one case and not the other?

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=10

In any case, this seems to be the way it is, for now at least...
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:23 AM   #46
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I'm afraid all you can do at the moment is to vote for the feature request in my signture. At least I don't know of any other way to achieve what you are asking for. By introducing an extra buffer size dependent delay, enabling feedback routing seems to cause more problems than it solves.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:26 PM   #47
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Default Bring all VSTis into one folder?

Hi all,

(this has been posted as a new stand-alone post, along this one here, not too sure how to hit the crowd who could help me. Sorry if I overstepped boundaries, let me know and I'll make it right...)

All right. Well, I'm starting to feel the pain of some dispersion of VSTs and VSTis on my computer and wonder if there's a utility that could find, grab and relocate them all. Once you start finding some cool ones and grabbing them, it's like browsing Kijiji, you get lost and end up with tons of them all over the place.

My softwares:

- Reaper
- Magix premium 15
- Cakewalk 9 ProAudio (yep, on Windows 7)
- EastWest Producer Collection (with PLAY)
- Synthogy
- Alchemy (lite?)
- Morphine
- FruityLoop 10 (demo)
- Izotope 4
- Reaktor 5
etc.

My goal: make my VSTs and VSTis easily accessible to all my DAWs. But I'm getting lost in the ocean of samples I have, and I don't know how to find my way back without breaking anything.

The main DAWs I'll be using would be Reaper, Magix and maybe something from NI.

Anyone has a realistic suggestion? Is there a VSTi librarian I could use without affecting latency? Or what would you suggest I do...

Thanks!

Coming back to music after 7 years, it's a whole different world!

styzer
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Last edited by styzer; 02-08-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:37 PM   #48
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Honestly i have all my vsts in one location on my second hard drive seperated into folders depending on their type.

Then I just point whatever software im using to that location and that's about it.

I do the exact same thing with samples. I have my main hard drive that has all my daws. And my samples drive that has my samples and my vsts all organized.

Then all I gotta do is point whatever software im using to that spot and im good to go. Or if I need to do a reinstall of windows I just re-setup the main OS drive and point my daws to the exact same location.

Pretty simple and organized actually.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:54 PM   #49
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Thanks for the reply,

Obviously I'm too late for that. That's why I'm asking around. I doubt I'm the only one who faced this... :O)
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:52 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by styzer View Post
Thanks for the reply,

Obviously I'm too late for that. That's why I'm asking around. I doubt I'm the only one who faced this... :O)
Sorry hah, I've looked for something similar in the past but in the end decided what I did above was the easiest course. Hopefully someone else here can chime in with what you are looking for
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:14 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrodan View Post

Or if I need to do a reinstall of windows I just re-setup the main OS drive and point my daws to the exact same location.

Pretty simple and organized actually.
and a good reason to keep all installed software and personal work off the OS drive whenever possible.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:50 PM   #52
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Found this thread recently, and I am having issues as a newb to routing. I posted another thread about this a while back, but I didn't get any answer to my seemingly easy solution. I have made progress thanks to another user on another forum, but I still need help to solve the puzzle.

I'm using Geist as my VSTi and I got a track template from this guy in the giest forums. The template works great, so technically I guess I could start working, but I am truely trying to grasp routing a bit more, so I have been attempting to recreate the template on my own from scratch, but I have not had success.

In the template, (the tracks in order he has a Geist folder, then the geist instrument, then each of the 16 pads from geist laid to tracks in reaper, with 4 sub folders, for each row in the pads in geist. Now, in his template, he had signal going to each track. With my recreation, I only get signal from the geist instrument track, and then the master track next to it. When I click on any pad in geist, I get sound, but no signal shows up in any of the 16 tracks, except the first one. (As far as I know)I have recreated every step that the template has taken with the sends and recieves, but my version isn't working. Can anyone explain what is going on, and what I am doing wrong? Thanks.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:26 AM   #53
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Sounds like you need to route each pad in Geist to a different Geist output (these will be mapped to the different track channels and thence to the other tracks). Look for "output selector" in the Geist User Manual.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:10 AM   #54
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Sup , Darkstar !

That helped me out with my (now sustainable ) Kontakt multi out setup (mix of mono & stereo outs for my own sampled drumkit) .

Great tuto
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:35 AM   #55
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Default Just a little bit further clarity re the WHY + the COST - PDC etc

Hi, I've had the tutorial thread as an open tab on my phone ever since I discovered it.

I'm just reading the particulars now, and I just wanted to ask -

Lots of the why (from what I've read) was to reduce GUI clutter... And the NOW (re how SXS can allow routing templates with hidden tracks that, if unused @ mixdown are removed...)

1) when (if ever) do you NEED to employ this advanced technique / these techniques (there are several scenarios covered here, depending on what ya using, n what ya wanna do)

2) what are the cost implications (in laymans terms?

I read something about PDC + feedback routing, but I'm
Not sure on what they are + what they affect, and even if I NEED to try and do and of this, ie with modern reaper technology + me still being in MIDI 101

References truly welcome videos especially !

Thank you to all contributors
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:12 AM   #56
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Where is the rest of this thread?

EDIT....Doh....found it

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Old 08-08-2015, 12:58 PM   #57
Don Schenk
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Default MIDI Semi-Clueless or Semi-MIDI Clueless or Just Clueless

I realize this is an old thread, but hope this post will be seen by somebody - anybody...AAAAaaaahhhhhyyy! Well, okay, somebody who knows what he/she is doing with MIDI.

Prior to 3 or 4 weeks ago, my entire MIDI experience consisted of running a MIDI cable out from a Yamaha 76-key some-thing-or-other, and sending the signal to a Roland VK-8M - a Hammond B3 emulator. The VK-8M then puts out an analog signal, and I am happy as a clam.

MIDI originally came along a couple years after I had gotten out of the music and recording business. Yes, I am old enough to be a geezer. Don't 'ya just love Photoshop?

But wait! Several weeks ago I bought EZ Drummer 2, plus three EZX modules, so now I get to plug my Yamaha something-or-other keyboard into the MIDI input on one of my interfaces.

To my amazement, this works wonderfully well! Yeah - I can even play various drum sounds from various keys. Who would have thunk it?

Next I download the free version of Kontakt (3.5 I believe) and it makes sounds from me pushing keys on the something-or-other. Whoooo hoooo!

Then I download HOPI's Multichannel VSTi how-to .pdf. What a lot of work from Hopi. Thanks Hopi. And I download the suggested Sampletank and sounds.

I have gone through the process in Hoipi's PDF some 7 or 8 times now without making it work! I think that is the definition of insanity - doing the same thing while expecting different results. Well, I've never claimed to be completely sane - nor have many of my friends. But my day to day friends know nothing about MIDI - they think it must be some new kind of food.

So that you can see what I am doing, I made a PDF file of my progress - complete with pictures - almost like a comic book. It has too many images to waste space and bandwidth here at cockos' forum, so I put it here...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/darkstar2pa...fusion+PDF.pdf

So what am I missing? Shhh - be nice.

Thanks,

:-Don

Last edited by Don Schenk; 08-12-2015 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Added new, faster downloading link
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Old 08-09-2015, 01:18 AM   #58
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(a) on page 2, I do not think you need the MIDI Output enabled,
(b) on page 5/6, the MIDI device needs to be selected for track 2, not track 1,
(c) on page 10, you might wish to alter the Outputs for the Drawbars and Flute instruments as they are currently going to channels 3+4 on the ST3 track (which, currently, are not going anywhere),
(d) on page 11, the ST3 track does not need to be RecArmed,
(e) on page 15, the audio track is shown as receiving from "stereo mix" which may well be another input coming back from the 828?
(f) on page 16, the Drawbars instrument is set to be played by MIDI on MIDI channel 02 and the Flute by MIDI on MIDI channel 03. The ST3 keyboard plays whichever instrument is selected in the Instrument Rack, and your keyboards are set to send MIDI on MIDI channel 01, triggering the J Bass.

Your pic on page 17 shows a better set up; here is what you need for ST3:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/ug1eL9E.png
-- track 2 Records the MIDI from the keyboard and Sends it to track 1
-- track 1 has ST3 which creates the audio, and Sends it to track 3,
-- track 3 Records the audio Output.

As in:
>>> http://i.imgur.com/C1km8mU.png

Multiple instruments on multiple channels comes later.
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Old 08-09-2015, 12:52 PM   #59
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Thank you, thank you, thank you Darkstar for taking the time to read through my tome of MIDI-newbie-woe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
(a) on page 2, I do not think you need the MIDI Output enabled,
(b) on page 5/6, the MIDI device needs to be selected for track 2, not track 1,
(c) on page 10, you might wish to alter the Outputs for the Drawbars and Flute instruments as they are currently going to channels 3+4 on the ST3 track (which, currently, are not going anywhere),
(d) on page 11, the ST3 track does not need to be RecArmed,...

Multiple instruments on multiple channels comes later.
This "(b) on page 5/6, the MIDI device needs to be selected for track 2, not track 1," did the trick. It made everything work for the first instrument.

Even the multi-instruments work now too. They needed the MIDI in selected too on their MIDI tracks.

I went back through HOPI's PDF, and do not see anything about setting track 2 to have MIDI-All in the input. It's just not there.

He does say to ARM the ST VSTi track. I don't know why.

Thanks again. Now to go do with with Kontakt 5.

:-Don

From his book...
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:40 PM   #60
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Thank you again, because of your routing suggestions, I figured out how to do something else (that everyone else besides me knows about) with Sampletank today. (Kontakt will have to wait.)

I let the Yamaha keyboard send an analog piano signal to Reaper, and recorded it as a .wav track. And I had it send MIDI data to Reaper to record a MIDI track at the same time.

Then I loaded Sampletank onto a VSTi track, loaded an organ sample into Sampletank, and created another audio track in Reaper to record the organ sound.

Whooo hooo. Your routing worked again, and Reaper recorded an organ .wav track.

So maybe now it is time to always record a MIDI track whenever I use that Yamaha on a song. I can then later have the keyboard parts become trumpets, violins, glockenspiels, or a trio of didgeridoos. Oooo perhaps even a humpenscrump or its cousin the hurdy-gurdy.

Hmmm are there really samples of those things?

:-Don
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:43 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post
So maybe now it is time to always record a MIDI track whenever I use that Yamaha on a song. I can then later have the keyboard parts become trumpets, violins, glockenspiels, or a trio of didgeridoos. Oooo perhaps even a humpenscrump or its cousin the hurdy-gurdy.

Hmmm are there really samples of those things?
Hi Don, Oh yes, I don't think there's any instrument that hasn't been sampled.

So you have Kontakt?
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:18 AM   #62
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Hi Tod,

Yes, I have the Kontakt player and the Sample Tank player (the free ones), along with some samples for each while I try to figure out how this all works.

I left the music business right before the advent of MIDI, and even stopped playing any music for a couple of decades. When I started playing again, now for my own fun rather than as a profession, it all came back to my hands quickly. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing!

But MIDI, oh my. Surprisingly most of my issues with it have to do with understanding definitions of the terms, and with figuring out the routing in Reaper. And I've been playing with Sample Tank more than Kontakt at this point. But Kontakt is next.

Kontakt's samples seem a little better sounding, and more extensive than ST, so of course it is more expensive to buy the whole enchilada.

:-Don
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:20 AM   #63
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^^^^
This may help fill in some gaps:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/AZmF0iO.png
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