Old 09-03-2011, 11:20 AM   #1
Geoff Waddington
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Default Reaper 4 MCU / C4 support

The latest is available in the stash:

http://stash.reaper.fm/v/11712/WaddMCUC4.zip

Thanks to "valley" there is now a Mac Dylib included.

As far as OS compatibility he says "32bit/64bit Intel. It's known to run on 10.6 and 10.8, but it should be good on anything from 10.5 (Leopard) onwards."

Disclaimer 1:
This is weekend hacking around and is not indicative of my production coding style.
The usual legal duck out about you losing projects / time, etc. if use use this -- hey it ain't my fault -- you know the drill.

Disclaimer 2:
Kind suggestions and questions welcomed -- some stuff might actually get included
Bullshit, bitchin' and moanin' -- not so much -- source code is in the stash -- git 'er done !

Disclaimer 3:
The newer MCU's seem to have a flakey MIDI driver (or sumpin') -- Just give the Jog wheel a few shakes if things get stuck (thanks Klinke for that tip).

Also the first couple of times things come up on the C4 the display can be flakey, but it soon settles down.

SWS extensions must be loaded for this to work.

You might need the C++ redistributable from Microsoft.

End legal crap



I'm an old large format console / 2" tape kind of guy, and am accustomed to that workflow.
Since I now program for my day job, I thought it might be fun to see what can be done with:
1 Mackie MCU
1 Mackie Extender
1 Mackie C4

There is now an overlay (pdf) included -- if you don't like the colors, just get inkscape and change them.






PLUG INS

On the C4:
The "Lock" button must be engaged ("lit") to show the plugins for that track
Press the "Marker" button to show/hide the plugin GUI.
Press the "Slot Up/Down" buttons to navigate the pages.
Don't forget to press the vPot switches -- they often do cool things.

On the MCU:
You must Select a track to show the plugins for that track




IMPORTANT NOTES FOR C4 Users

The mapping is now externalized

You MUST find the Reaper Resource location.

On my Win 7 box it is C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\REAPER, YMMV

On Macs it is something like /Users/<user name>/Library/Application Support/REAPER/

Make a new folder named C4FX in the Reaper Resource location

On mine it would be C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\C4FX

Place the C4FXParams.ini in this directory

Make a BACKUP of C4FXParams.ini BEFORE you start mapping a new plugin.

The file is "|" delimited

Some basic vPot types -- try them out for your mappings, use the provided C4FXParams.ini entries as examples

FP -- standard parameter
EQ -- EQ parameter-- LED ring looks like Boost/Cut
BW -- Bandwidth -- LED Ring does the fan thing

Others in C4FXParams.ini

Switches
S2 -- 2 position
S12 -- 12 position and last one folks, there is no 13 position switch

C2 - C12
Combo switch -- kind of a 2 for 1 Combo
Made for things like EQ
Pushing the button scrolls through frequencies
Rotating vPot adjusts Boost / Cut
In the C4FXParams.ini there are many examples
Note the |"| construct -- it is important to these guys

Q: How the heck do I find out the parameters of my favorite plug, so that I can map it?
A: Press "Function" on the C4 -- the indicator lights up.
Insert the plugin you want to map into SLOT 1 of a channel
Press Select for that channel
The data is output to a file named FXParams.txt to your equivalent of C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\C4FX\FXParams .txt

Use this data to map the plugin

Basic Grammar

FP|WetMix|Mix|10

FP -- standard parameter
WetMix -- From the FXParams.txt file
Mix -- What shows on the C4
10 -- C4 slot number, it is 0 based so 10 is the 3rd one in on the second row








MCU for Reaper 4

PAN

Press "PAN" on the MCU
Press the vPot top to switch between Pan and Width

VIRTUAL PATCHBAY
The F1-F8 buttons on the MCU and the row below -- MIDITRACKS - USER represent the patchbay "jacks"
These 16 buttons function to assign I/O to 1-16 in mono
Press "STEREO" -- now assigment is stereo 1&2 - 31&32

If you press the +16 button and this option is enabled in the .ini file, the assignments now start at 17 / 32 and go to 33&34 / 63&64

SEND
Press "SEND" on the MCU, then select 1-16 from the virtual patchbay and the vPot controls the Send level for that Send (if it exists on the track)
When in Sends mode the Assignment LED display changes from Track Offset to Send Selected ( 1 – 16 ).

RECORD INPUTS
Press "INPUT" on the MCU
Select the Track of interest
Use the virtual patchbay to assign inputs
Press the vPot switches to cycle through the input monitoring modes.

INPUT TRIM
Press "INPUT" on the MCU
Check "Volume (Pre-FX)" in the automation section on track(s) and the Rotary becomes "InputTrim" -- the waveform resizes.

HARDWARE OUTPUTS (useful for headphone mix / hardware sends to outboard gear)
You must assign an output by the usual GUI first -- then this can be used to modify the output
For outputs, press "OUTPUT" on the MCU
Select the Track of interest
Use the virtual patchbay to assign outputs
Use the vPot to control output level

BYPASS ALL FX
FX - when engaged, and enabled in the .ini file the Select buttons become Track FX bypass buttons, very handy for mixing

Miscellaneous
THAW - Thaws previously frozen selected tracks
FREEZE -- freezes selected tracks
PEAK -- Clears Overs
MATRIX -- Routing Matrix
MEDIA -- Media Explorer
CPU -- Performance Meter
SET -- Sets a marker
<< >> -- Use RWD and FF jump to markers
INSERT TRACK -- you guessed it
METRONOME SETTNGS -- ditto
AUDIO DEVICE -- I find this shortcut right to the ASIO panel is handy for changing latency (buffer) settings in conjunction with FREEZE / THAW

New mappings
CANCEL -- Toggles Mixer
ENTER - Same as F7-F9 -- scrolls through Window Sets

Footswitch1 places a Track named TokBak (or tokbak, TOKBAK, etc.) into Record while pressed -- good for talkback.
Footswitch2 places any Selected Tracks into Record while pressed -- good for punching.
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Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 09-17-2012 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:53 PM   #2
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Bump - upload successful
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:54 AM   #3
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hey I remember you from a previous thread... this is wonderful!!! any plans to tackle the 003?
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skamm Goodiez
any plans to tackle the 003?
The 003 uses a proprietary protocol through firewire (not MIDI) so it's a non starter, unfortunately.
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:55 PM   #5
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Just realized some may not know, and I should therefore add, that this was based on the SDK kindly provided by Justin et. al., so most of the original functionality is available -- the Transport / Jog / Zoom / Marker / Click / Cycle / Automation / Save / Undo / stuff as well as the standard Mute / Solo / Rec Arm, Faders / Banking etc. is still there, I just added some extra bits that made sense to me.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #6
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where's the link? does this work on a mac?
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
where's the link? does this work on a mac?
http://stash.reaper.fm/v/9681/reaper_csurf_wadd.zip

PC only, but the source code is there too, so if you (or a friend) have a Mac development environment you can compile it for OSX.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:41 PM   #8
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I've tried to look into the Alphatrack plugin code and port it to macos BUT it's been almost 20 since I touched any programming and the Xcode (or whatever name it has) was a... let's say, unfamiliar enviroment for me.
Any ideas about who could help port this stuff to Mac?
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
I've tried to look into the Alphatrack plugin code and port it to macos BUT it's been almost 20 since I touched any programming and the Xcode (or whatever name it has) was a... let's say, unfamiliar enviroment for me.
Any ideas about who could help port this stuff to Mac?
I've been trying to find someone to port Klinke's csurf plug to mac for well over a year. Let me know if you find someone...
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell View Post
I've been trying to find someone to port Klinke's csurf plug to mac for well over a year. Let me know if you find someone...
Alphatrack plugin for Mac?

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...041#post811041
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:54 PM   #11
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I got tired of trying to remember how I programmed the switches so I broke down and made an overlay -- now included in the stash zip as well as here.

If you don't like the colors / text, etc., just get Inkscape and change it, then save to a PDF for "right sized" printing.

OK, how to get a decent overlay (not a paper one)
You can get special paper for making fridge magnets, and print the PDF image. It's pretty thick and lays up real nice.
DISCLAIMER -- Don't know about the long term effects of the magnets on the switches -- I'll let you know -- actually I'm not too worried, the magnets are weak and most of the switches are scanned membrane types, I doubt the slight magnetism will hurt -- time will tell
EDIT: Sep 15 2012 -- So far so good, seems the low level magnetism doesn't do anything -- YET

Now to get the cutouts to look decent.
I just got a 3/32" leather punch for the LEDs and a 1/4" inch leather punch for the 8 screw holes from the local Tandy leather shop.
Then I got some chisels and ground them a bit for size to cut the square switch holes.

A little labor later -- voila
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:02 PM   #12
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Thanks for your hard work and for sharing with the community. I would love to see this ported to Mac and willing to help do what I can to get it done!
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell
I would love to see this ported to Mac and willing to help do what I can to get it done
Well, the source code is available as well, so you just need a Mac IDE and the chops to use it (or know someone who has these things) -- shouldn't be too hard.

Gimme a holla' if you want the source code.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, the source code is in the stash as well, so you just need a Mac IDE and the chops to use it (or know someone who has these things) -- shouldn't be too hard.
Mac IDE? OK, over my head already!
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:13 PM   #15
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Hey Geoff,

Thanks for sharing this man!

Quick question...

Does your MCU Pro display dB values correctly on the display strips while transport is playing back?
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah
Does your MCU Pro display dB values correctly on the display strips while transport is playing back?
Yup, but don't forget I changed the behavior so that the metering mode never gets used, I find the LCD metering pretty useless.

So in the DLL (the one in the stash) the bottom row shows DB if you move a slider and various other things (Input/ Output channels, etc.) as you navigate the vPot Assign buttons.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:50 PM   #17
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This plugin is a godsend - I"ve got an MCU pro, 2 extenders & a C4.

Unfortunately, I cannot make the C4 work at all. If I set it up, it doesn't seem to work. If I press "plugin", then Reaper hangs, and will never boot up properly again (hangs at setting up control surface), unless I turn off all the surfaces, boot into reaper, go into control surfaces & open & click on each & disable the C4. Then it works & it'll boot.

Also, I can't seem to get the meters to appear on the scribble strip. How do I do this?

I would LOVE to be able to modify the behavior of some of the buttons. Is this possible?

Also, one other thing - If I lose focus from the Reaper window, and the media goes offline, when I go back to the window, it's lost the connection with the surfaces. I have to go into control surfaces, click on each & OK to get them back. ANy ideas on this?

Here's to hoping you keep updating the plugin, it's fantastic.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mactac
If I press "plugin", then Reaper hangs
Sorry you are having problems, you don't click on the Plug-In button to get the FX to work on the C4, you need to download the overlay (PDF) and then press the FX button on the MCU (I think it was the button labeled EQ on the original) -- you also need to click the Lock button on the C4 if you want to see the GUI's.

Quote:
Also, I can't seem to get the meters to appear on the scribble strip. How do I do this?
I disabled the meters because I did't get enough worthwhile feedback from the tiny LCD display, there is currently no way to change this behavior.

Quote:
I would LOVE to be able to modify the behavior of some of the buttons. Is this possible?
Yes, if you can program C++ -- the source code is included.

Quote:
Also, one other thing - If I lose focus from the Reaper window, and the media goes offline, when I go back to the window, it's lost the connection with the surfaces. I have to go into control surfaces, click on each & OK to get them back. ANy ideas on this?
Hmmmm. don't know, works fine here on Win 7 64 bit
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sorry you are having problems, you don't click on the Plug-In button to get the FX to work on the C4, you need to download the overlay (PDF) and then press the FX button on the MCU (I think it was the button labeled EQ on the original) -- you also need to click the Lock button on the C4 if you want to see the GUI's.
I usually can't even get that far. As soon as I enable the c4, reaper hangs,. If it doesn't hang, then as soon as I restart reaper, reaper crashes as soon as it gets to the "control surface" part of the boot sequence.

Basically, the c4 driver is making reaper hang.

I'm also using Win 7 64 bit.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mactac View Post
I usually can't even get that far. As soon as I enable the c4, reaper hangs,. If it doesn't hang, then as soon as I restart reaper, reaper crashes as soon as it gets to the "control surface" part of the boot sequence.

Basically, the c4 driver is making reaper hang.

I'm also using Win 7 64 bit.
The other thing I should mention is that it also makes my ASIO driver crash (?!)
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #21
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I guess I didn't ask - are there any settings I have to change to use the c4 (size tweak ?). I basically plugged it in, and set the c4 driver to the right midi input. anything else I have to do?
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mactac
The other thing I should mention is that it also makes my ASIO driver crash (?!)
Hmmmm... something definitely out of whack here, let's compare firmware versions:
MCU Pro v4.0.1
C4 Pro v3.0.0

Are you connecting the C4 MIDI to the MCU Pro MIDI Ports?

Do you have the SWS extensions installed as per the first message in this thread?

Quote:
You might need the right C++ redistributable from Microsoft
This usually isn't a problem but if you get any error messages referring to the C++ runtime, this is likely the issue.

Quote:
As soon as I enable the c4
What do you mean exactly by enable ?

A couple of last things to check --
Make sure you are using the (Wadd) versions of everything

Make sure the MIDI I/O for the C4 is disabled in the MIDI Devices section

Let me know -- we'll hopefully solve this together.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmmm... something definitely out of whack here, let's compare firmware versions:
MCU Pro v4.0.1
C4 Pro v3.0.0
Both of mine are 3.0

Quote:
Are you connecting the C4 MIDI to the MCU Pro MIDI Ports?
Yes

Quote:
Do you have the SWS extensions installed as per the first message in this thread?
Yes

Quote:
This usually isn't a problem but if you get any error messages referring to the C++ runtime, this is likely the issue.
No C++ error message. When I enable the c4 (ie go to options, control surfaces, and set the c4 to a midi port), reaper hangs, then crashes (ie "reaper.exe has stopped responding).

Quote:
What do you mean exactly by enable ?
See above

Quote:
A couple of last things to check --
Make sure you are using the (Wadd) versions of everything
Definitely

Quote:
Make sure the MIDI I/O for the C4 is disabled in the MIDI Devices section
I'm not sure what you mean by this - you mean in the preferences for control surfaces? How will it communicate with the computer?

Thanks!
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by this - you mean in the preferences for control surfaces? How will it communicate with the computer?
No, I mean in the "regular" MIDI section --

Options->Preferences->MIDI Devices (in the Audio section)

I also have "Restrict MIDI hardware output to one thread" checked -- don't know if this matters.

Quote:
When I enable the c4 (ie go to options, control surfaces, and set the c4 to a midi port), reaper hangs, then crashes (ie "reaper.exe has stopped responding)
Could it be something as simple as Input / Output reversed on the C4?
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
No, I mean in the "regular" MIDI section --

Options->Preferences->MIDI Devices (in the Audio section)
The MIDI section of preferences lists the midi interfaces, right? the C4 isn't a midi interface, so it shouldn't show up here (or am I confused?)

It doesn't show up there for me - I cannot assign it to a midi port in the control surfaces section, so reaper wouldn't know that it exists, right?

Quote:
I also have "Restrict MIDI hardware output to one thread" checked -- don't know if this matters.
same

Quote:
Could it be something as simple as Input / Output reversed on the C4?
NO, it actually works, because the c4 commander software works, telling me that it's hooked up correctly.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
The MIDI section of preferences lists the midi interfaces, right? the C4 isn't a midi interface, so it shouldn't show up here (or am I confused?)
You're exactly correct !!

What I meant to say was are the 4 MCU Pro ports disabled in the Input section as well as the Output section?

I am not sure if thie is strictly necessary, but I do have it set up that way.

Here's something to try, set up the system with the C4 turned off, I just tried that here and there seem to be no bad side effects.

If that works, power up the C4 and see what happens
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:45 PM   #27
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You're exactly correct !!

What I meant to say was are the 4 MCU Pro ports disabled in the Input section as well as the Output section?

I am not sure if thie is strictly necessary, but I do have it set up that way.
Yes, they all show as "disabled"
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #28
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I also tried the c4 on it's own separate midi port (not hooked up to the MCU pro) with the same result, FWIW.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:52 PM   #29
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Oh, also - the "yo Wadd" message doesn't appear on the c4 either. When I try to enable it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Oh, also - the "yo Wadd" message doesn't appear on the c4 either. When I try to enable it.
Yes, that never did show up on the C4 so that is expected.

I am using Win 7 64 bit with Reaper 4.14 64 bit, and of course the 64 bit DLL, what is your configuration?
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #31
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Yes, that never did show up on the C4 so that is expected.

I am using Win 7 64 bit with Reaper 4.14 64 bit, and of course the 64 bit DLL, what is your configuration?
Exactly the same
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:19 PM   #32
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Hmmmm... gettin' low on bullets here.

About the only thing that seems different other than the MCU firmware version is the number of extenders ( I have just 1 extender ).

Could you try removing 1 extender, and let me know what happens -- not holding my breath

You do have the PDF overlay in order to see the control remappings, right ?
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:26 PM   #33
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Hmmmm... gettin' low on bullets here.

About the only thing that seems different other than the MCU firmware version is the number of extenders ( I have just 1 extender ).

Could you try removing 1 extender, and let me know what happens -- not holding my breath

You do have the PDF overlay in order to see the control remappings, right ?
I've tried it with one extender and with no extenders.

I do have the pdf overlay, but it doesn't help, I can't even get to the point of being able to press any buttons usually - reaper hangs as soon as I enable the c4.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:27 PM   #34
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Hmmmm... gettin' low on bullets here.

About the only thing that seems different other than the MCU firmware version is the number of extenders ( I have just 1 extender ).

Could you try removing 1 extender, and let me know what happens -- not holding my breath

You do have the PDF overlay in order to see the control remappings, right ?
I don't think there is a way to try a new firmware without buying the kit from mackie, am I right?
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:33 PM   #35
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I found it strange that the ASIO driver crashes sometimes in all of this. I did try using reaper with a different audio driver, thought that might help - didn't
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:35 PM   #36
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I don't think there is a way to try a new firmware without buying the kit from mackie, am I right?
I think upgrading is easier now, and perhaps even free.

However I don't know if you could upgrade as the v4.x is for the new MCU's with the Alps faders, I think you have an older version with the P&G faders -- don't know if the firmware is even compatible.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:37 PM   #37
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I found it strange that the ASIO driver crashes sometimes in all of this. I did try using reaper with a different audio driver, thought that might help - didn't
That is extremely strange, don't have a clue as to how a MIDI device can affect the ASIO -- does your interface have MIDI as well?
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:44 PM   #38
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That is extremely strange, don't have a clue as to how a MIDI device can affect the ASIO -- does your interface have MIDI as well?
It does.

Here's something really crazy -

I turned off the MCU & extenders & hooked the c4 up to the midi interface on my audio interface. Same problem, crashes. But now reaper won't even boot, even after a computer reboot (!).

It crashes at "initializing control surfaces" as usual. This happened before, and I removed the DLL & it worked again, then I un-enabled the c4, and it worked again.

It's like if it tries to load the c4 portion, reaper crashes even before it loads.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:49 PM   #39
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Ok, as a test I suggest you try this:

Disable AND disconnect your interface (if it is FW / USB, etc. -- removing a card is likely a bit much for this test).

Set Reaper to your onboard soundcard, just to make it happy.

Now try the C4.

Just trying to eliminate unwanted interaction with your interface
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:51 PM   #40
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So, there we go. I took out the DLL, rebooted & got into reaper. Closed it down, re-enabled the dll & it boots again.

So, basically if reaper thinks there is a c4 & tries to initialize it (even if it's not ON), it crashes. Every time I try to boot after that, it won't startup & hangs on the "initializing control surfaces (i guess it still thinks there is a c4 there & tries to initialize it).

If I remove the dll, then reboot my machine, reaper then loads. I close it down, put back the dll & everything is fine (until I try to add the c4 again).

It doesn't seem like it's related to the MCU OS version, as it's not even hooked up to the MCU anymore, it's on the external MIDI port.

It sounds liek there is something in the initialization routine for the C4 that kills it, even if no C4 is turned on.

hope that helps.
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