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Old 08-13-2014, 02:35 PM   #1
flipotto
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Default Firewire device i/o order, Presonus-daisy

Hey all,

How do I change the order of the i/o listing of devices in Reaper?

Win7 64, running reaper 4.71 32bit

I recently got some different interfaces.
I decided to go firewire.
I have 4 presonus devices now.
1. studiolive 16.0.2
3. presonus firestudio projects.
46 in / 46 out

So the 16.0.2 is going to be the main interface, that I will use most of the time.
They are all daisy chained together.
The all seem to work very well together.

The only problem is the firestudio i/o's are listed first in reaper i/o settings.

I really want to have the studiolive 16.0.2 listed first.
I tried changing the order of the daisy chain, this does not help.
I tried removing the driver and reinstalling it. Then connecting the studiolive first. No difference.

I need this as the studio live will be the most used and the central hub for outputs as well. At this point I have to scroll a long way down to get what I need.

Any suggestions or files I can edit.
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:18 PM   #2
Lawrence
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If (no personaal clue) Windows always list audio drivers in alphabetical order....like ...

F - Firestudio
S - Studio Live

You might be out of luck.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:06 PM   #3
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You daisy chained a bunch of FW boards and windows sees all the inputs fine?
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:53 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith View Post
You daisy chained a bunch of FW boards and windows sees all the inputs fine?
Yes. They are from the same company AND are designed to work together.

Lawrence - I guess I need to do more research, or live with it.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith View Post
You daisy chained a bunch of FW boards and windows sees all the inputs fine?
All from the same manufacturer.
When they write their drivers right, that's the way it should work.
(one of the reasons I bought my Motu, they daisy-chain too)
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:58 PM   #6
Lawrence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
I guess I need to do more research, or live with it.
Yeah. It may simply just be alphabetical. No idea. Having said that...

Software is under the total control of the developers so there's nothing really stopping a developer from allowing the user to have custom arraignments of lists like that.

Sounds like a good FR actually.

Anyway, in workstations that have dedicated mixer input channels like Cubendo, you can assign any input channel to any physical input and the lists you get in arrange menus for inputs follow those assignments, not the windows OS list order. No idea if there's a way to do similar in Reaper or not.

Last edited by Lawrence; 08-13-2014 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:23 PM   #7
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Here's what I meant above. Because dedicated input channels are intermediates between the driver and the software channels, any input channel can be connected to any driver input. They always list in numerical order like that 1 to X, but what they actually connect to can be anything. In that case you would just assign your SL inputs to the first 16 input channels or whatever and they'd be at the top of all the menus...



All the assignments are made on the input channels so they'll list in whatever order you assign them in...



Cubase works the same way via it's VST Connections screen, the driver I/O isn't hardwired to the list. It also uses dedicated input channels and dedicated sub-out channels as intermediates between the software and the hardware so you can order or configure those things any way you want.

In Reaper you can set a range of inputs but (afaik) you can't reorder them or pick random inputs that are not in sequential order, like use inputs 1-8, skip over inputs 9-16 not use them at all or have them even show up in the app, but still also use inputs 17-24.

Last edited by Lawrence; 08-13-2014 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
I really want to have the studiolive 16.0.2 listed first.
I tried changing the order of the daisy chain, this does not help.
I tried removing the driver and reinstalling it. Then connecting the studiolive first. No difference.
So that the I/O from the studiolive is first in the full I/O list right? (So project I/O assignments can stay put.) I do that too.

Connecting them in a different order and/or altering the firewire daisy chain would not have an effect here nor should it.

In OSX, when you make an aggregate device with Audio MIDI Setup, the first interface you add to the aggregate device (by checking the box next to it) becomes the first in the 'list'. The 2nd one... the 2nd, and so on. This aggregate device will stay in this device order regardless on which one is connected first or the daisy chain order.

I would try the same thing with with ASIO4ALL in Windows. It may work differently... I only know OSX.
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:43 PM   #9
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What Reaper really needs is a routing matrix for hardware I/O but because it doesn't have anything to assign that kinda stuff to but audio tracks, it wouldn't do any good in the current design. It's the matrix or similar that controls order and visibility.

Below, the hardware inputs would be up top and the "input channels" (the intermediates, not audio tracks) would be on the left and you'd just assign them any way you want. I think PT does this also.

When you have a potential 48+ inputs like I do (32 channels from a desk + other stuff feeding the 2408's), not being able to manage all that directly can make for a bit of a mess.



Note: Just to be clear, it's not - necessary - to have physical intermediate mixer channels for that. PT and Bitwig as shown below do it without using physical intermediate mixer channels. Input one below is actually using driver input four. It's a matrix also, the Bitwig I/O assignment screen. The I/O menus would list just like that, in that same order.

The only point is that the software inputs are disconnected from the hardware driver inputs, and freely assignable.



Last edited by Lawrence; 08-13-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Here's what I meant above. Because dedicated input channels are intermediates between the driver and the software channels, any input channel can be connected to any driver input. They always list in numerical order like that 1 to X, but what they actually connect to can be anything. In that case you would just assign your SL inputs to the first 16 input channels or whatever and they'd be at the top of all the menus...
The universal control may help me with this. I just need to figure out how to use it.
This may be an easier problem than I thought.
Though things don't usually go that way.
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:16 AM   #11
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Why not use Options Preferences Audio

Input Channel Name Aliasing/Mapping and
Output Channel Name Aliasing/Mapping

In there you can rename inputs and outputs and move their order
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4uk View Post
Why not use Options Preferences Audio

Input Channel Name Aliasing/Mapping and
Output Channel Name Aliasing/Mapping

In there you can rename inputs and outputs and move their order
Wow!
Sure enough alias and drag order, perfect design.
I should have known Reaper could do this, shame on me.
Thanks for the key I was looking for.
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:27 AM   #13
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Your welcome glad it does what you needed
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Old 08-14-2014, 06:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
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...glad it does what you needed
So am I. It's a rather klunky solution and design that kind of demonstrates the other "not cohesive" thread point but it works.

Thanks 4x4.

P.S. My earlier point about moving all that to a matrix still stands.

Last edited by Lawrence; 08-14-2014 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 07:21 AM   #15
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yep it works but I agree it is clunky
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #16
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Agreed, clunky.
Very tedious to drag items at the bottom, and it won't autoscroll up.
where to put a feature request and how to word it?
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Agreed, clunky.
Very tedious to drag items at the bottom, and it won't autoscroll up.
where to put a feature request and how to word it?
So, in Windows when you create the aggregate device, the individual device order doesn't stay the same as it was when you first created the aggregate device? It actually changes depending on the order of the cabling or order of powering up the individual devices? Did you try it and find it really didn't stick? (Not sure what the ASIO4ALL control panel looks like or if you have checkboxes like Audio MIDI Setup.)

When one of multiple devices in the aggregate is not connected, Reaper just skips that set of I/O. But the order of the remaining devices stays the same. For example, 4 devices with 2 inputs each = A1 A2 B1 B2 C1 C2. The 3rd input is B1. Remove device B but keep the same aggregate device attached to Reaper. Now the 3rd input is C1.

Now make this same aggregate device but select (check the box next to) C first and then A and then B. This aggregate device has input channel order C1 C2 A1 A2 B1 B2 and this stays the same regardless of the order the devices are connected or daisy chained.
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Agreed, clunky.
Very tedious to drag items at the bottom, and it won't autoscroll up.
where to put a feature request and how to word it?
Request a matrix like PT and most of the others. No point in re-inventing the wheel there...



Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Not sure what the ASIO4ALL control panel looks like or if you have checkboxes like Audio MIDI Setup.
Windows aggregate devices like with ASIO4ALL defeats the purpose of proprietary audio drivers with special functions.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
So, in Windows when you create the aggregate device, the individual device order doesn't stay the same as it was when you first created the aggregate device? It actually changes depending on the order of the cabling or order of powering up the individual devices? Did you try it and find it really didn't stick? (Not sure what the ASIO4ALL control panel looks like or if you have checkboxes like Audio MIDI Setup.)

When one of multiple devices in the aggregate is not connected, Reaper just skips that set of I/O. But the order of the remaining devices stays the same. For example, 4 devices with 2 inputs each = A1 A2 B1 B2 C1 C2. The 3rd input is B1. Remove device B but keep the same aggregate device attached to Reaper. Now the 3rd input is C1.

Now make this same aggregate device but select (check the box next to) C first and then A and then B. This aggregate device has input channel order C1 C2 A1 A2 B1 B2 and this stays the same regardless of the order the devices are connected or daisy chained.
Not using asio4all, which only sees 10 inputs of my 3 presonus firestudio's 30 inputs. No deal that way. My post to presonus forum result was the devices are listed based on serial #.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Request a matrix like PT and most of the others. No point in re-inventing the wheel there...
Hey - will you do it?

You have a much more articulate way of explaining it, I'll jump on board.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:55 PM   #21
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Sure, but my FR's here don't get much tracktion.

Done: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5314

Discussion Thread: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...44#post1390744

Last edited by Lawrence; 08-15-2014 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:40 AM   #22
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well I voted lawrence
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