midi unwanted notes

[dmoss74]

i tried posting this in compatibility, but got no answer. i thought i'd try here instead:

this is happening with reaper with midi instruments from time to time. this particular example (around 14 seconds) happened with kirk hunter strings, using kontakt 5 as a host in reaper, but it occasionally happens with other vsti's as well. and the bum notes occur at times, jump around from time to time, or occasionally play without this issue. it can be random. very frustrating.

the note isn't written that long. where can i begin to troubleshoot these issues?

https://app.box.com/s/5asz1fxl5u7pc2dbphn6

thanks for looking.

pc, win 7 64, reaper 64, i5 processor, 8 gigs ram.

update:

i didn't mention that the notes were all played live on a keyboard. i wanted a human feel to the strings. however, i went back and just wrote them in in the midi editor. the stray note thing went away, but it ends up sounding robotic (like i feared. now i'll have to alter specific note length and velocities to get something that sounds more real.

but now, i have another problem (surprise). i hand wrote in a 4 bar section, and then just wanted to copy/paste. but when i do, some of the notes don't line up exactly like their copied counterparts. it's very weird. i have the marker set at the exact location i want the notes to be copied (started). again, it's random notes that drift. very weird stuff. this midi thing may be too much for me.

[Tod]

I don't know if this is your issue or not but when you render midi it's always a good idea to render with Online Render. Otherwise funny things can happen to midi.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't know if this is your issue or not but when you render midi it's always a good idea to render with Online Render. Otherwise funny things can happen to midi.

that's weird, because when i do that, i oft times get clipping. this also happens in playback (in reaper), at random times, even before rendering...and again, with various vtsi's. i thought i had plenty of ram/cpu/hdd to keep stuff like this from popping up, but maybe not.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

that's weird, because when i do that, i oft times get clipping. this also happens in playback (in reaper), at random times, even before rendering...and again, with various vtsi's. i thought i had plenty of ram/cpu/hdd to keep stuff like this from popping up, but maybe not.

Hi dmoss, I always use a light limiter on the Master to avoid any clipping. Clipping can be random due to reverbs, choruses, ect, or if any of your VSTis are using Round Robins.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi dmoss, I always use a light limiter on the Master to avoid any clipping. Clipping can be random due to reverbs, choruses, ect, or if any of your VSTis are using Round Robins.

sorry, i got offline, and online, confused.

i don't want to seem like it's the clipping i'm worried about. it's this thing where notes randomly play beyond where they are supposed to. and again, it happens when playing in reaper, even before i render the files.

i guess this has never occurred before, although i seem to remember having something like this happen years ago, when i had another pc setup to record (with another daw).

it's totally annoying, but i guess i'll just have to deal with it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

the note isn't written that long. where can i begin to troubleshoot these issues?

So it's because notes are playing longer than they should?

Have you possibly got any CC64 in the Midi, that is a sustain pedal and if it has a value above 64 the it would make a note play until it reaches a a value below 64. That would be a possibility and you'd find that in a CC64 Lane at the bottom of the Midi Editor.

but now, i have another problem (surprise). i hand wrote in a 4 bar section, and then just wanted to copy/paste. but when i do, some of the notes don't line up exactly like their copied counterparts. it's very weird. i have the marker set at the exact location i want the notes to be copied (started). again, it's random notes that drift. very weird stuff. this midi thing may be too much for me.

Copy and Pasting midi in Reaper can be a little tricky. If the first note what I want to paste is not right on the grid I'll put in a TEMPORY note that is ahead of the first note and place it right on the grid. That way when I copy and paste I make sure the TEMP note is right on the same grid that I put it on when I paste it. Then I delete the TEMP note.

Also it's important if you have any CC controllers that you turn on the Button that allows you to copy/paste the CC controllers too.

There is also an action to Paste preserving position in measure with a shortcut of Ctrl+Shift+V.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

So it's because notes are playing longer than they should?

Have you possibly got any CC64 in the Midi, that is a sustain pedal and if it has a value above 64 the it would make a note play until it reaches a a value below 64. That would be a possibility and you'd find that in a CC64 Lane at the bottom of the Midi Editor.



Copy and Pasting midi in Reaper can be a little tricky. If the first note what I want to paste is not right on the grid I'll put in a TEMPORY note that is ahead of the first note and place it right on the grid. That way when I copy and paste I make sure the TEMP note is right on the same grid that I put it on when I paste it. Then I delete the TEMP note.

Also it's important if you have any CC controllers that you turn on the Button that allows you to copy/paste the CC controllers too.

There is also an action to Paste preserving position in measure with a shortcut of Ctrl+Shift+V.

i actually found an old forum thing about the copy/paste midi in reaper thing, that you had written in.

i'm not quite getting the c64 thing. here's a screen shot of the midi editor opened with one og the tracks i'm having problems with. and again, i just played it back three different times in reaper. two times different notes did the sustain thing, and one time it played through properly. i am--to say the least--very flummoxed.

thanks for the help, though. i'll probably just stick to real instruments from now on. these things weren't cheap though, but whatever.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

i'm not quite getting the c64 thing. here's a screen shot of the midi editor opened with one og the tracks i'm having problems with. and again, i just played it back three different times in reaper. two times different notes did the sustain thing, and one time it played through properly. i am--to say the least--very flummoxed.

Hi dmoss, I don't see any CC64 in this picture but that is some pretty strange midi for violins. In fact I'm not sure what you might be trying to do here.

Could you just make an mp3 of the just this midi track. That could explain a lot. Based on the picture you shouldn't hear anything but staccato notes.

Also one of your problems could be just a matter of polyphony. It's really hard to tell or know from that midi. An mp3 of just that track would help a lot.

thanks for the help, though. i'll probably just stick to real instruments from now on. these things weren't cheap though, but whatever.

Don't give up, you got this far and it looks like you might have some nice instruments. I know I will do what ever I can to help you and there are others on this forum who would say the same thing.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi dmoss, I don't see any CC64 in this picture but that is some pretty strange midi for violins. In fact I'm not sure what you might be trying to do here.

Could you just make an mp3 of the just this midi track. That could explain a lot. Based on the picture you shouldn't hear anything but staccato notes.

Also one of your problems could be just a matter of polyphony. It's really hard to tell or know from that midi. An mp3 of just that track would help a lot.



Don't give up, you got this far and it looks like you might have some nice instruments. I know I will do what ever I can to help you and there are others on this forum who would say the same thing.

there's a link to the portion of the track that has the error in my first post. it occurs between 14 and 16 seconds. i'll try to get a slice of just the violins and post it.

edit; here's the two violin sections. one hand played (for humanization, the other written). there was the obligatory long note in there somewhere, but like i said, it varies each time i do a playback.

https://app.box.com/s/3zm37un7rgcrpsdg6hd3

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

there's a link to the portion of the track that has the error in my first post. it occurs between 14 and 16 seconds. i'll try to get a slice of just the violins and post it.

edit; here's the two violin sections. one hand played (for humanization, the other written). there was the obligatory long note in there somewhere, but like i said, it varies each time i do a playback.

Okay, are you talking about the very last notes played in that mp3? If so is it supposed to be a staccato like the rest of the staccatos?

We hear such a small little part of that on the end that it's hard to tell. Also what I hear all through is a little different than what I see in the picture of your midi item above.

What articulation are you using for that, it has a sort of staccato attack but it's certainly not a staccato articulation unless you're using keyswitchs?

How are you setting up your midi tracks? Are they separate from your Kontakt VSTi track? If they are separate, check your Kontakt VSTi track while it's in the TCP arrange area to see if there's maybe some extra midi notes on that track. There shouldn't be if you're using separate midi tracks.

How many total midi tracks do you have?

How many different nki instruments do you have in that instance of Kontakt?

If all else fails, can you post your project file with all your midi tracks along with the Kontakt VSTi and it's outputs? I won't have your nki files and samples of course but I do have some others that might work.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Okay, are you talking about the very last notes played in that mp3? If so is it supposed to be a staccato like the rest of the staccatos?

no, it happens at around the 14 second mark.

Originally Posted by Tod

What articulation are you using for that, it has a sort of staccato attack but it's certainly not a staccato articulation unless you're using keyswitchs?

on the kh solo stgrings, the articulation is marcato, with connect bowing. on the other strings, they are just the whole note tab.

Originally Posted by Tod

How are you setting up your midi tracks? Are they separate from your Kontakt VSTi track? If they are separate, check your Kontakt VSTi track while it's in the TCP arrange area to see if there's maybe some extra midi notes on that track. There shouldn't be if you're using separate midi tracks.

How many total midi tracks do you have?

How many different nki instruments do you have in that instance of Kontakt?

okay, i'm a midiot...i'll own that. i'm not sure of all these options. i have four midi tracks. track one is an addictive drums track (already rendered that to wav. track 2 is the kh strings. track three is another kh strings, but is a cello (solo). track four is spitfire solo strings.

i load an instance of kontakt per track. that's probably wrong, but i just got this and dove in. i'll probably have to rtfm to know what i'm doing wrong here. i also set each track to (my keyboard..if played) on all channels. the drums i do as midi/all channels, since it's drag and drop beats.

Originally Posted by Tod

If all else fails, can you post your project file with all your midi tracks along with the Kontakt VSTi and it's outputs? I won't have your nki files and samples of course but I do have some others that might work.

again, being a midiot, i don't know how to do that.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

no, it happens at around the 14 second mark.

Heh heh, Okay, I thought you'd intended that because it flows rather nicely.

on the kh solo stgrings, the articulation is marcato, with connect bowing. on the other strings, they are just the whole note tab.

Okay, I understand, a marcato can sound like this. I'm not sure what you mean by "on the other strings, they are just the whole note tab"

okay, i'm a midiot...i'll own that. i'm not sure of all these options. i have four midi tracks. track one is an addictive drums track (already rendered that to wav. track 2 is the kh strings. track three is another kh strings, but is a cello (solo). track four is spitfire solo strings.

i load an instance of kontakt per track. that's probably wrong, but i just got this and dove in. i'll probably have to rtfm to know what i'm doing wrong here. i also set each track to (my keyboard..if played) on all channels. the drums i do as midi/all channels, since it's drag and drop beats.

No, this doesn't mean you a midi idiot. Even though you've set it up to do it this way doesn't mean it's wrong, even though I would advise you to do it differently.

The thing is, there are a lot of things that could be causing this and obviously something must be.

If you solo the track or mute all the other tracks does it still do it. Obviously you either soloed this strings track or muted the other tracks in order to get that mp3, or did you do that in some other way?

Heh heh, I recently spent a whole afternoon trying to track down why I had extra notes playing where there were none, that resulted in this thread.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=143935

Things like this can be hard to track down. One thing you could do since you've got the midi on the VSTi track, add another project tab and give it the same BPM as your project. Then copy/paste that Kontakt VSTi track and any outputs if there are any to that project. That will isolate that track and instrument so that if it still happens then it's within the way you've got that instrument setup.

Heh heh, with things like this you have to be persistent.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Heh heh, Okay, I thought you'd intended that because it

Things like this can be hard to track down. One thing you could do since you've got the midi on the VSTi track, add another project tab and give it the same BPM as your project. Then copy/paste that Kontakt VSTi track and any outputs if there are any to that project. That will isolate that track and instrument so that if it still happens then it's within the way you've got that instrument setup.

Heh heh, with things like this you have to be persistent.

thanks tod, i'll give that a try. the whole random spasms is what concerns me, but i will give that a try. just perusing the kontakt manual made me think a little differently already. it looks like setting the main parameters to "omni" may help some. i still have no clue what can happen when i load "multis" into kontakt. i've been doing them all as individual tracks, with separate kontakt examples on each track.

i probably need to study more. i was just in a manic writing mode, and forgot to know the tool, before trying to hammer.

i appreciate all the efforts you've made in trying to help me solve this puzzle.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

thanks tod, i'll give that a try. the whole random spasms is what concerns me, but i will give that a try. just perusing the kontakt manual made me think a little differently already. it looks like setting the main parameters to "omni" may help some.

When you're using a single instrument in a single instance of almost any VSTi including Kontakt, Omni is probably best because that sort of covers all your bases. It's possible to end up with notes and/or CC controllers on different channels.

i still have no clue what can happen when i load "multis" into kontakt. i've been doing them all as individual tracks, with separate kontakt examples on each track.

i probably need to study more. i was just in a manic writing mode, and forgot to know the tool, before trying to hammer.

i appreciate all the efforts you've made in trying to help me solve this puzzle.

So it sounds like you have the full version of Kontakt, is that right?

You probably also have the manual for the Kirk Hunter Strings, that should also tell you what you have available for CC controllers and other important information about the library itself.

Let me know how you're getting along.

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Hi Dmoss!

Continuing with Tod´s idea, would you mind posting a project with only the problematic track? I don´t own those Kirk Hunter strings, but if you verify that the problem persists in the isolated track and you post it here, we could take a look and discard possible causes...

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria

Hi Dmoss!

Continuing with Tod´s idea, would you mind posting a project with only the problematic track? I don´t own those Kirk Hunter strings, but if you verify that the problem persists in the isolated track and you post it here, we could take a look and discard possible causes...

i'm sorry, but i don't know how to do that. is there a specific page in the um that deals with that? and it happens randomly, on either of the string tracks. i can post both, if i figure out how to.

thanks

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

i'm sorry, but i don't know how to do that. is there a specific page in the um that deals with that? and it happens randomly, on either of the string tracks. i can post both, if i figure out how to.

thanks

Hi dmoss, Just save your project under a temporary name. Then delete everything except the two midi tracks along with their associated Kontakt tracks, and re-save the temporary track.

Then you can load the rpp file as an attachment down below Attach Files>Manage Attachments.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Then you can load the rpp file as an attachment down below Attach Files>Manage Attachments.

you got me until this point. i'm lost.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

you got me until this point. i'm lost.

Hi dmoss, when you're in the Reply to Thread mode, replying to my post for instance, you should be able to see a box marked Additional Options, underneath where you type in your mesage. In side that box you will find Attach Files>Manage Attachments.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi dmoss, when you're in the Reply to Thread mode, replying to my post for instance, you should be able to see a box marked Additional Options, underneath where you type in your mesage. In side that box you will find Attach Files>Manage Attachments.

oh, d'uh!

great. the file won't upload. i give up. i'll quit bugging you guys. thanks for the help. i have to go out of town for a week for work anyway. i'll address it again when i get back.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

oh, d'uh!

great. the file won't upload. i give up. i'll quit bugging you guys. thanks for the help. i have to go out of town for a week for work anyway. i'll address it again when i get back.

I'm sorry your having this trouble dmoss, perhaps if you put it in a ZIP file it would load.

Also since you're having the trouble may I suggest using Reaper's Stash.

https://stash.reaper.fm/

You'll have to register but then you can upload pictures and what ever. Stash is mainly meant for pictures and things like themes but when the attachments don't work that is an option.