Direct Monitoring Revisited?

psingman · 11-29-2011, 07:36 AM

H'lo. So, I use a mixer which I send into my firewire interface, then into the computer, back to the firewire interface, then back to the mixer. What is the best setup to monitor all of this while recording? I mean, do you have to click on monitor input ( using older version 3.13), seems you do.

I guess what I am asking is, what method will yield the best results with the lowest latency. If you have had great success with a certain flow, please reply back, so I can get my little studio hooked up properly, to begin recording, OK. Thanks, psingman

davidandmary1 · 11-29-2011, 08:04 AM

Decide how you want to monitor. If you use the Interface's mixing applet, then you can get a low latency headphone mix. You would not be using the mixer in that scenario. You would have the REAPER input monitoring off as you would be using the app from your Interface. The upside of this approach is low latency without taxing the PC, but you are limited regarding effects while recording. RME and the app TotalMix is a famous example of this approach.

If you route everything through the REAPER engine, then you want Input Monitoring on for sure. The upside to this is that you get the effects in the mix and you use your mixer for everything after the signal gets through your Interface. The downside of this approach is that you have latency headphone mixes. The stronger your PC, the lower the buffers, the lower the delay in your Headphone mix. It does tax the PC, but if you can get to 64 for the buffer setting, you should be good. Remember, Firewire Interfaces have an "extra" or hidden buffer and that is just the nature of the beast with Firewire. Try both, and enjoy making music!

psingman · 12-05-2011, 08:29 AM

Hmm, firewire has an extra or hidden buffer, please explain. OK, what should I set my buffering and sample settings at, that wouuld be usable but not freeze up the works. I think it says 13 on asio at top mow, is that too low or what would be better for recording and playback? I am having trouble editing with AA 3.0 for some reason, the cursor keeps locking up but the rest of the stuff works fine, another hmmm, well, keep the informing going, appreciate it, DR

davidandmary1 · 12-05-2011, 10:55 AM

You are looking good as I understand from your previous post. With your mixer, you have options. I say try to monitor through REAPER in software land first. Then, if that doesn't work for you, go Hardware only and bypass the monitoring within REAPER.

To clarify, I will say that you cannot get as low a latency (roundtrip from source, to AD conversion through the drivers and mix engine and then back out through drivers and mix engine to DA conversion to headphones) on a firewire interface as you can on a PCI interface. There is a hidden buffer. But, it is not an issue really.

Basically, if you have a PCI card Interface set at 64 buffer and a Firewire Interface set at 64 buffer, they will not have an identical latency. The PCI interface is a bit tighter. The hidden buffer of firewire interfaces is built in and happens in addition to the setting you put on the card. Again though, it is not usually a deal breaker...

I have two interfaces. One is the PCI card Lynx Two-A 4 x 4 Interface and one is the RME FF 400 Interface. I use both without a hitch.

What I like to do is set my buffer on both to 64 buffer and record monitor through REAPER. That is close enough to realtime for me. I love the routing capabilities of REAPER. I can send to an EQ, a couple of compressors, a VERB, a DELAY and so forth in software and cannot do that in hardware.

I can close my eyes and have the feeling that I am in a bigtime studio, even though it is a room in my home. I say, monitor like you were saying in your previous post and enjoy the flexibility that brings.

I wouldn't try to get the buffer above 128. The latency distracts you when it gets above 128 buffer. If your PC gets pops and clicks when running at 64 buffer or 128 buffer, then you need to go the Direct Monitoring through hardware and use REAPER as your tape deck if you will. There, you use your mixer to provide the recording source headphone mix.

d. gauss · 12-05-2011, 12:37 PM

monitor all recording inputs directly from your hardware mixer. no latency at all.

planetnine · 12-05-2011, 03:12 PM

Yes, through the mixer. I try not to monitor through REAPER unless I'm using VSTi plugs live...

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psingman · 12-05-2011, 10:21 PM

Ok, how do you monitor through the mixer....wouldn't do it for me? I had to hit monitoring on the track. I have my miser hooked up correctly as I used it for my last CD. Somehow I get all mixed up when I get back into recording and always need about 10 days to iron out all the stuff I thought I had figured out. So, if you can show me how to monitor with a mixer and not use the input monitoring in Reaper, fine, I am listening, thanks for assisting, DR

P.S. Also how to set buffers to 64, another need, thanks!

d. gauss · 12-05-2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psingman

Ok, how do you monitor through the mixer....

as long as your speakers/headphones are hooked up to the mixer, you will be monitoring from the mixer. bring in the output of reaper on 2 channels of the mixer for playback and you are good to go.

planetnine · 12-05-2011, 11:55 PM

It does depend on your mixer, but I use the LR outputs to go into REAPER for recording, and use the aux outputs for monitoring (headphones).

Any already recorded track that I need to listen to while recording is routed from REAPER's output into channels on the mixer, but either deselected in its output routing or the fader pulled down, and monitored, again, from the aux.

There are other ways of routing it; you could use the auxes as record sends and monitor through the mixer LR output via headphones. You could use any direct outs on your mixer as record sends (what I do when recording live events to multitrack recorder). Depends on your mixer -have a playaround and you'll work out what suits your workflow.

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psingman · 12-06-2011, 01:14 AM

Well, I think I figured out, actually I was overthinking it, but that is what I always do when I get overwhelmed. I send the main outs from my mixer to the inputs on the firewire interface, out to the computer, the outputs from the firewire interface back to the tape ins and then press in control room to tape and then I can hear it all through the headphones and control room outs to monitors.

You do have to select monitoring within Reaper, right, that is what I was not sure of, as I couldn't get it to record with the track playing without doing that. I believe that a lot of what gets misconstrued, is the wording of when someone is assisting you or explaining a setup. For example, zero latency monitoring implies not using the software for that purpose, but you have to select that in Reaper or its no go, correct? I will diagram a setup for some just starting out when I get a few things done with my music as there are some minor sticking points about setting up a small home studio that can throw a starter off track, hehe, don't want to go there, offline now, DR

d. gauss · 12-06-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psingman

You do have to select monitoring within Reaper, right,

no, just use the hardware mixer for everything.

psingman · 12-07-2011, 01:20 PM

That's what I thought but it doesn't work, can't hear anything without hitting that button....so, must be something set up wrong. Any advice mucho appreciated. I mean how can the tracks that are recorded be played back and another recorded one added without hitting the monitor input button. OK, this is why I have been asking this question in here and on Home Recording forum, but noone seems to know how this is done. Hopefully someone will get a Eureka moment and say, oh, did you do this, haha, wish I had all the don'ts I did, assistance needed, DR

P.S. as long as your speakers/headphones are hooked up to the mixer, you will be monitoring from the mixer. bring in the output of reaper on 2 channels of the mixer for playback and you are good to go.

So, do I have to bring the reaper channels into a track 5 or 6, for example, or can I bring it to tape ins?

carvingCode · 01-16-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetnine

Any already recorded track that I need to listen to while recording is routed from REAPER's output into channels on the mixer, but either deselected in its output routing or the fader pulled down, and monitored, again, from the aux.

Could you, or someone, go into a bit more detail or point me in the right direction on this?

Let's say I have two tracks recorded and want to monitor those while recording a third. Tracks are VSTi's controlled via USB controller. Can I do this all from within Reaper?

Thanks in advance.

psingman · 03-27-2012, 08:24 PM

HI, well regardless of what anyone tells you, you have to hit a monitoring feature in Reaper. I don't know how recording this new track can be done while listening to the others without doing that. I tried every scenario and they all require a monitoring check to hear the recorded tracks. If someone knows another scene then please chime in, appreciate all, psingman

DBMusic · 03-27-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psingman

HI, well regardless of what anyone tells you, you have to hit a monitoring feature in Reaper. I don't know how recording this new track can be done while listening to the others without doing that. I tried every scenario and they all require a monitoring check to hear the recorded tracks. If someone knows another scene then please chime in, appreciate all, psingman

If your audio interface will support it, just send the tracks you want to listen to while recording to one or more hardware outs that are routed to your mixer. From there create a headphone mix.

DB

Tim my · 03-27-2012, 10:09 PM

I think the missing piece of info here may be that you have to actually start recording to monitor through Reaper.

ie just hitting monitor on an armed but not actually tracking/recording track you will get no effects. at least thats how mine is setup/default?

psingman · 03-28-2012, 08:58 PM

I think I am recording correctly, because my tracks are coming out nice and my mixes quite good. I am just trying to understand the flow of sound from voice through mic to mixer, guitar through effects box to mixer, out from mixer to interface to puter, from puter back through interface to mixer and how you listen to the recorded tracks, then record the next track, with or without input monitoring selected on the track being recorded. The last phrase is the snag, you have to choose a monitoring method, OK, psingman

pw3 · 03-29-2012, 03:12 PM

You need to get the mixer channel you're sending to Reaper into the 'phones too. Turn on 'Tape to Control Room' and 'Mix to Control Room'. Sounds like you're using a Beringer mixer?

planetnine · 03-29-2012, 03:28 PM

I think you've got three threads running on this, psingman, my friend.

I think you need to set this up without your audio interface so you know your mixer. Once you've got what you expect coming out of the appropriate outputs of your mixer I think you can progress....

Which thread do you want to continue in?

Way to get NO Latency when monitoring live? Hard to play in time.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=94966

Still not getting the monitoring choices?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=98962

Direct Monitoring Revisited?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=92346

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psingman · 04-01-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pw3

You need to get the mixer channel you're sending to Reaper into the 'phones too. Turn on 'Tape to Control Room' and 'Mix to Control Room'. Sounds like you're using a Beringer mixer?

YUP, right on all counts. I keep responding to the threads to see if anyone has some input that can answer my inquiries. I guess I should just keep on,keeping on, but one final time. You cannot listen to your track being recorded without choosing an input monitoring choice...if you can, then I will fly you to my house in upstate NY and you can show me how, hehe. Well, if I could afford that I would buy a different studio setup. Thanks and kudos to all reaper forumites who have assisted me in my recordings, ps

danfuerth · 04-02-2012, 11:18 AM

Send me your drivers and I will see what I can do.

I have an Edirol FA101 10 in 10 out that I have used to play some shows ( guitar backing) live without using an amp, just reaper or nuendo 2 running Guitar Rig 2 and Amplitube 1.2 ( still my all time favourite)

the Latency I get with the stock drivers is 5ms at best
With the modified drivers and reg hacks I get 1.2 ms which is pretty close to fx units. This Edirol is hooked up to a desktop pc running windows xp sp2 with Nuendo 2 and Reaper 4 on the Edirol firewire interface.

I will look up your drivers and see what I can do

psingman · 04-05-2012, 01:29 PM

Danfuerth, that is very interesting. See, if I knew about that I would have or still could get the same interface and it would work as streamlined as you say. This is how we can all help each other out on this forum. Can you message me at p man@hotmail.com with song between the p and the man and elaborate, thanks so much, appreciate it. psingman