Music to Murder - The Presence of Loa (Reprise)

[kindafishy]

Well, I wasn't originally going to post this here because I've already subjected you fine folks to what... 3 versions of this song (albeit a long time ago)?

Then I figured, what the hell... maybe I can get some helpful feedback for this version. Plus, I haven't posted anything in a while. Plus, I don't think anyone else other than REAPER users listen to our tunes. Gotta get on youtube one day... We are actively working on two new songs right now and I am remixing our second song (Cold Soul). Might re-post that one too... not sure yet.

Many of the guitars have been redone, the drums have been polished up and reworked in some places, and the mix was redone from the ground up.

This is the first song Sammy and I did together, as some of you may potentially recall. I was never happy with the guitar tracks for the most part. It was the first song I recorded on a DAW (started in pro tools and moved to REAPER). The old version (which has been taken down from everywhere) featured my scratch tracks that I figured were good enough... well, I ended up regretting that and always intended on going back and redoing them.

My OCD finally got the better of me, so here is the new version for better or for worse.

Box.net (higher bitrate) -> https://www.box.com/shared/kt3mfl8mvq
ReverbNation -> http://www.reverbnation.com/musictomurder

Mix comments are welcome and appreciated. Same goes for arrangement, structure, writing, performance, etc, etc. Anything goes. It's nice to have thick skin. Any level of feedback is great. Mix tweaks are possible based on feedback.

[shangsean]

Great track. I'm not listening on good enough speakers to really comment on the mix, but it sounded good to me. I don't think a mix has to be technically perfect to work well anyway, especially for this type of music. I've heard some of Sammy's stuff before and I think this is the sort of stuff where his vocals sound the best. He almost sounds like modern day Steve Walsh on this. That's a good thing. The guitar work is smooth and there's a nice groove happening and I love the bass tone. I haven't heard the original version as far as I know, but this version is very good.

[monolith]

Nice track! Love the organic feel of the song. Loving the vox, Sammy!!

[Sambo Rouge]

Hey Fish,

Very nice. It has a decidedly Cream feel to it and I do like the new guitar track very much. Nice vox harmony.

Technically, I love the presence/old school feel of the recording.
Lots of work in here --- I especially like the peripheral voice
stuff left and right.

Drums cut through just enough without being oppressive.

All in all, a really nice work --- full marks to Sammy and the Fish!

[kindafishy]

Originally Posted by shangsean

Great track. I'm not listening on good enough speakers to really comment on the mix, but it sounded good to me. I don't think a mix has to be technically perfect to work well anyway, especially for this type of music. I've heard some of Sammy's stuff before and I think this is the sort of stuff where his vocals sound the best. He almost sounds like modern day Steve Walsh on this. That's a good thing. The guitar work is smooth and there's a nice groove happening and I love the bass tone. I haven't heard the original version as far as I know, but this version is very good.

Thanks! Yeah, I love it when Sammy belts out greasy rock vocals. Sammy gots the mojo. Thanks for the kind words on the rest of the production, too. Really appreciate that you listened and took the time to comment.

Originally Posted by monolith

Nice track! Love the organic feel of the song. Loving the vox, Sammy!!

Thanks man! Love the 'organic' description. Exactly what I think we always hope for.

Originally Posted by Sambo Rouge

Hey Fish,

Very nice. It has a decidedly Cream feel to it and I do like the new guitar track very much. Nice vox harmony.

Technically, I love the presence/old school feel of the recording.
Lots of work in here --- I especially like the peripheral voice
stuff left and right.

Drums cut through just enough without being oppressive.

All in all, a really nice work --- full marks to Sammy and the Fish!

Mucho appreciation, Sambo.

Some people get quite cantankerous when they are compared to successful bands/artists, but I think it's great. Our influences shape us in such fundamental ways as musicians, that it's only natural to let it out. Plus, I think that when someone says "hey, it sort of reminds me of band x", that can only be a good thing because you already have a connection with "band x" and now you're extending that to what you're currently hearing. It's a beautiful thing. It's a little odd when "band x" is not a direct influence, but common influences or at least genre influences can likely be traced.

Thank you (!!!) for the comments on the production as well. You noticed a lot of the stuff we focused on (I push the faders, but Sammy and I share the 'producer' and 'engineer' hats, really).

[sammydix]

when i first heard this version, i thought it sounded like Sly does Presence. i said, "who's that funky Canadian?" brought a fresh feel to the song, i thought.

[mschuster]

Love it man! nasty, nasty groove.. diggin it!! love the 70's overtones in everything from the guitars, bass - and singing.. for some damn reason i kept thinking Boz Scaggs.. i suppose a few similarities.

my only comment would be a little more umph from the kit would have helped elevate this baby to another whole level. great tune and groove though as is.. nicely done!

[sammydix]

...BOZ!

[Sinner]

First, I like this song. If it came on the radio, I'd turn it up.

i had to take a listen on some good speakers but there is nothing technically wrong with the mix to me.

Stylistically, and it is totally a subjective concern..

I feel like the guitar and lead vox are 'dirtier' than some of the other elements. Drums, backup vocals. I'd dirty the other elements more (saturate them more, or tube or tape sim) up a little to make them seem a little more in sync. In other words, the drums in particular are too pristine for me. Talking a small difference here. 10 - 15% difference.

Incidentally, are the lyrics referring to Loa's here, as in Voodoo?

Now I am probably one of the few people that even would catch that if so having dated/lived with a Haitian for some years, but it is in fact pronounced Luh-Wah. Sometimes spelled in Haitian Lwa. Haitian can be quite phonetic and lacks standardized spelling, or at least wide usage of standardized spelling.

[carbon]

I like the song very much.
I agree with Sinner though dirtier drums would fit better with the rest.

The guitar and vocals seem to be coming from the same place in stereo field - it's interesting, it grabbed my ear.

[kindafishy]

Thanks for all the really helpful feedback! I updated the mix. Same links in the first post.

Originally Posted by mschuster

Love it man! nasty, nasty groove.. diggin it!! love the 70's overtones in everything from the guitars, bass - and singing.. for some damn reason i kept thinking Boz Scaggs.. i suppose a few similarities.

my only comment would be a little more umph from the kit would have helped elevate this baby to another whole level. great tune and groove though as is.. nicely done!

The Boz! That's awesome. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being trapped in the 70's. If one is not able to let go of the past, at least it can be centred around the greatest time in rock and funk music history.

I think I know what you mean by umph. You want it to hit you in the chest a little more. I added some in the form of some additional distorted transients that sit under the kick and snare. I already had a parallel compression bus, so I took more advantage of it, and I like where it went. This was a great call, thank you very much for that. I feel it quite a bit more now.

Originally Posted by Sinner

First, I like this song. If it came on the radio, I'd turn it up.

i had to take a listen on some good speakers but there is nothing technically wrong with the mix to me.

Stylistically, and it is totally a subjective concern..

I feel like the guitar and lead vox are 'dirtier' than some of the other elements. Drums, backup vocals. I'd dirty the other elements more (saturate them more, or tube or tape sim) up a little to make them seem a little more in sync. In other words, the drums in particular are too pristine for me. Talking a small difference here. 10 - 15% difference.

Incidentally, are the lyrics referring to Loa's here, as in Voodoo?

Now I am probably one of the few people that even would catch that if so having dated/lived with a Haitian for some years, but it is in fact pronounced Luh-Wah. Sometimes spelled in Haitian Lwa. Haitian can be quite phonetic and lacks standardized spelling, or at least wide usage of standardized spelling.

Thanks Sinner! What a cool thing to say.

I am getting the feeling that both you and carbon are onto something similar to what mshuster was onto with the drums. Maybe not exactly, but in the same sphere. The increase in the distorted transients did the trick I think. I really like the sound of the kick and snare now. They are punchier and just a touch more saturated sounding (not with saturation, but with a really distorted compressor).

Loa. Yes, well... sort of. I wrote the music to this song before Sam and I started collaborating together. I also had a set of lyrics, and the song title was originally 'Presence of the Loa', not 'The Presence of Loa'. The previous lyrics did centre around the Voodoo religion, and were darker than the current lyrics, but in a tongue-in-cheek way because it was commentary on how misunderstood it is. When Sam and I decided to do this collaboration, my lyrics went out the window because... well... Sam rules... but I told him the name of the song, and that's where the chorus came from. So, I guess you can say that the word Loa came from Voodoo, but no longer holds that meaning within the context of the song. Kind of cool, eh?

Originally Posted by carbon

I like the song very much.
I agree with Sinner though dirtier drums would fit better with the rest.

The guitar and vocals seem to be coming from the same place in stereo field - it's interesting, it grabbed my ear.

Thanks carbon! Do you like how the drums sit now? I do, for sure. At this point in the mix, it's all very subtle, but I think it gels pretty well now.

Great observation on the vocals/guitars. I didn't think anyone would notice that level of detail. You have a really discerning ear. I tried to position both the vocals and the guitar in the centre and near the 'front of the stage', but with the vocals 'on top' of the guitars, so if you can imagine a spot in front of you, the guitars would be coming from a place in front of you, between your eyes, but sort of near the top of your forehead. The vocals are supposed to sound like they are the same distance, but coming from above your head. The guitar accents in the chorus are supposed to live around ear level.

[Sinner]

"'Presence of the Loa', not 'The Presence of Loa'. The previous lyrics did centre around the Voodoo religion, and were darker than the current lyrics, but in a tongue-in-cheek way because it was commentary on how misunderstood it is."

Loa can be plural of loa so the earlier change shouldn't matter.

but really if it is tongue in cheek it might actually make sense to say it that way.

The 'watch me run' goes really well to me with the Loa reference. Again, I don't suppose there are many people like me that have actually been to Voodun temples, or have much other than the extremely skewed Hollywood version, but they have this concept that the loa can ride them, like horses. Not dissimilar to evangelical churches with 'gettin the spirit' I think. But the horse reference is unique and I think of horses running principally.

Sounds really good to me now.

[suleiman]

Great tune n good mix ! Had no clue you had the juju blues in ya !

Minor squibbles :

- vocals : too low n the layered / chorus deal not workin for me
- guitars : need more bite... Some screeching n feedbacking
- drums : more fills n thump

Listening back, it appears my mods would probably kill the whole point , so nevermind.

Rock on bro !

[kindafishy]

Originally Posted by Sinner

"'Presence of the Loa', not 'The Presence of Loa'. The previous lyrics did centre around the Voodoo religion, and were darker than the current lyrics, but in a tongue-in-cheek way because it was commentary on how misunderstood it is."

Loa can be plural of loa so the earlier change shouldn't matter.

but really if it is tongue in cheek it might actually make sense to say it that way.

The 'watch me run' goes really well to me with the Loa reference. Again, I don't suppose there are many people like me that have actually been to Voodun temples, or have much other than the extremely skewed Hollywood version, but they have this concept that the loa can ride them, like horses. Not dissimilar to evangelical churches with 'gettin the spirit' I think. But the horse reference is unique and I think of horses running principally.

Sounds really good to me now.

Thanks again, Sinner. Appreciate the follow up, and the original tip.

It's beyond cool that you found a personal reference in the song, and that you have a unique interpretation of the lyrics. Thanks for sharing that bit of information on the Loa. Makes me want to learn more!

Originally Posted by suleiman

Great tune n good mix ! Had no clue you had the juju blues in ya !

Minor squibbles :

- vocals : too low n the layered / chorus deal not workin for me
- guitars : need more bite... Some screeching n feedbacking
- drums : more fills n thump

Listening back, it appears my mods would probably kill the whole point , so nevermind.

Rock on bro !

Cheers, suleiman! We've both found that we have all kinds of different influences from all kinds of genres, some of which overlap, and some of which don't. That's a big part of what makes our modest little writing and recording partnership so fun and fresh, but at the same time so cohesive to us.

I appreciate your squibbles. I think though, and it looks like you kind of alluded to this as well, that they would take the mix in too much of a modern sounding direction, and we're pretty happy with where it sits right now. There's always the potential to revisit it again at some point in the future from another point of view, but for now, and to the best of our abilities and ears, it has the esthetic that we want it to have.

Thanks a lot for the good vibes, man.

[carbon]

Originally Posted by kindafishy

Thanks carbon! Do you like how the drums sit now? I do, for sure. At this point in the mix, it's all very subtle, but I think it gels pretty well now.

Sounds great, more cohesive.

[zoso2]

The kick is very punchy, almost too much. While the rest of the mix is organic, and excellent by the way, the kick seems to be on a different level of production in a sense. Maybe the toms could be brought up just a touch so you really feel the groove throughout the intro and outro. Just my two cents. Love the tune!

[plgrmsprgrs]

Late to the party as usual.

Great groove. Love the drums, and the guitar work is stellar. The whole thing just moves like a beast! I'd like to hear sammy bumped up a bit though. On these cans I find myself frustrated that he sounds buried in the mix. Great work. OCD deserves some good press here.

Kyle

[kindafishy]

Originally Posted by carbon

Sounds great, more cohesive.

Thanks carbon. You guys were right .

Originally Posted by zoso2

The kick is very punchy, almost too much. While the rest of the mix is organic, and excellent by the way, the kick seems to be on a different level of production in a sense. Maybe the toms could be brought up just a touch so you really feel the groove throughout the intro and outro. Just my two cents. Love the tune!

Argh! Well, the current kick is where it is as a result of earlier comments on the mix, so I'm not sure where to go with this. I listened back with an ear for what you are saying and I can appreciate what you're talking about. I like the current punch, but I'm open to experimenting with the mix a bit more. I like the suggestion on the toms too. I'm working on another mix right now, but I might go back to this one for a couple further small tweaks in a few weeks.

Thanks for the suggestions. Stoked that you like it!

Originally Posted by plgrmsprgrs

Late to the party as usual.

Great groove. Love the drums, and the guitar work is stellar. The whole thing just moves like a beast! I'd like to hear sammy bumped up a bit though. On these cans I find myself frustrated that he sounds buried in the mix. Great work. OCD deserves some good press here.

Kyle

Thanks, Kyle! "Moves like a beast..." Best. Compliment. Ever.

For the vocals, do you mean from start to finish, or just in some sections. On every system where I have listened, he is coming though really well. The vocals are 'in the mix' rather than being 'on the mix', but perhaps they are too deep. Is what you are hearing seem to be a frequency mask, or just a level issue? I do hear that there is opportunity to ride the faders a bit and bring him up during certain sections, like the "can't get a damned thing done" parts maybe, for example.

Your thoughts and the listen are really appreciated.