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08-22-2008, 11:36 AM
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#161
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
Zee is right folks Reaper does sound like shit.
My dog had a shit earlier today and I recorded it. When I play back the recording of the shit through my hifi and disco speakers, and then listen carefully to the turd in an isolation chamber I can state that they sound so similar as to be indistinguishable.
The evidence is irrefutable.
Just to make certain It was not psycho-acoustics or pilot error I made another recording of the shit on another track and reversed the phase, sure enough when I pressed playback guess what - nothing, the two shits nulled - proving that Reaper does indeed sound like shit.
How bout that?
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HAAAHAAAA HAAAHAAAA!!! that's some funny shit!
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08-22-2008, 01:14 PM
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#162
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee
Just like you guys aren't sound engineers...
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Talk is cheap - care to link us to YOUR masterpieces?
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08-22-2008, 02:34 PM
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#163
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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If you look at Zees status, you see he won't. Could this idiotic thread not just die now?
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08-22-2008, 02:39 PM
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#164
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
If you look at Zees status, you see he won't. Could this idiotic thread not just die now?
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oh, im sure he will be back.
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08-22-2008, 02:50 PM
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#165
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
If you look at Zees status, you see he won't. Could this idiotic thread not just die now?
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I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were being forced to read this thread!
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08-22-2008, 02:53 PM
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#166
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themensch
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were being forced to read this thread!
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this thread is just bad vibes hehe
i love it.
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08-22-2008, 03:57 PM
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#167
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
this thread is just bad vibes hehe
i love it.
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Aww, I wasn't trying to give bad vibes, I was trying to convince the reader to be responsible with his time and not read things that the reader wouldn't want to read. It's easy!
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08-22-2008, 08:20 PM
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#168
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 61
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I may need a new guitar
Hi folks,
I just discovered this post, and I'll have to say I've learned more here by accident than all the other posts combined. But I have a question I need some help with. I decided to put some of things I've read here to the test. So I recorded my guitar (into Reaper of course), then recorded a different tune (again, into Reaper of course). And I'll have to admit, they didn't null out well for me at all.
So, what do you think? New guitar ? New amp? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the mic. It's a '57, and I've used it before. I'm sort of leaning toward a new guitar, but I'd really like some expert advice on this. So what say you???
Cheers
Jim
Last edited by jim111; 08-22-2008 at 08:24 PM.
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08-22-2008, 11:32 PM
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#169
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim111
Hi folks,
I just discovered this post, and I'll have to say I've learned more here by accident than all the other posts combined. But I have a question I need some help with. I decided to put some of things I've read here to the test. So I recorded my guitar (into Reaper of course), then recorded a different tune (again, into Reaper of course). And I'll have to admit, they didn't null out well for me at all.
So, what do you think? New guitar ? New amp? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the mic. It's a '57, and I've used it before. I'm sort of leaning toward a new guitar, but I'd really like some expert advice on this. So what say you???
Cheers
Jim
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zee,
i think you are misunderstanding what nulling is all about
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08-23-2008, 12:57 AM
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#170
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
Zee is right folks Reaper does sound like shit.
My dog had a shit earlier today and I recorded it. When I play back the recording of the shit through my hifi and disco speakers, and then listen carefully to the turd in an isolation chamber I can state that they sound so similar as to be indistinguishable.
The evidence is irrefutable.
Just to make certain It was not psycho-acoustics or pilot error I made another recording of the shit on another track and reversed the phase, sure enough when I pressed playback guess what - nothing, the two shits nulled - proving that Reaper does indeed sound like shit.
How bout that?
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Oh, man, I think I just peed myself...
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08-23-2008, 02:47 AM
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#171
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim111
Hi folks,
I just discovered this post, and I'll have to say I've learned more here by accident than all the other posts combined. But I have a question I need some help with. I decided to put some of things I've read here to the test. So I recorded my guitar (into Reaper of course), then recorded a different tune (again, into Reaper of course). And I'll have to admit, they didn't null out well for me at all.
So, what do you think? New guitar ? New amp? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the mic. It's a '57, and I've used it before. I'm sort of leaning toward a new guitar, but I'd really like some expert advice on this. So what say you???
Cheers
Jim
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this post really highlights the need for us to have one central place all guys can go to for a complete list of reasons we can give to our wives for buying new gear.
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08-23-2008, 03:00 AM
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#172
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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Just out of curiosity, i had a look at the project files he posted.
For the record...in both files, there were different levels on different tracks...so obviously he had made some basic user errors in setting up his test.
Also, there was no reverb plugin inserted in either one( or even named).
So far, this would have to be the easiest one to dismiss just by looking at the presented evidence.
Nothing unexpected here, just simple user error (again).
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08-23-2008, 08:56 AM
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#173
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 61
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I confess
Posted by Till:
lol. come on, guys! are you still not reading his stuff?
man, this is hilarious.
.........................................
Hi folks,
OK, I confess, feeble attempt at a little humor. :>), completely busted by pipelineaudio. Yesterday was my first time reading thru this post and I about split a gut. Several times. lol.
BTW, to pipelineaudio, Love your videos, man. Keep up the good work.
...................................
Oh, my personal favorite: (close call, many good ones)
Zee - "Did it turn out as a good album ?"
Nightscope - "It nulls OK."
Cheers to everyone.
Jim
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08-23-2008, 09:32 AM
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#174
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,758
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In retrospect, I think I might actually understand the basic misunderstanding that started this thread. I don't think this was about the "mixing engine" or nulling or whatever. I think the misconception was that a DAW somehow converts sample data into audio, missing the point that the sample data IS the audio. Hence the protests about "nulling within the same program" and so forth.
So, for the record, every audio program outputs sample data. It's the output converters, which are part of the hardware and not part of the DAW, that convert the sample data to an analog voltage to drive the speakers. If the sample data output from two programs is identical, the resulting audio will be the same, if played o the same hardware.
(Apologies if somebody already said this in the foregoing pages of agita.)
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08-24-2008, 10:41 PM
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#175
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 61
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schwa done went and done it !!!
Hi folks,
Jeez schwa, I just discovered the hilarity and now you've totally busted it. lol.
Ok, let's review phase reversal for a second. Let's look at a byte of digital info, let's say it's 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1. That's the byte of information to be sent to the the da converter at the correct time, to be converted back to an analog signal. Now you tell your daw to reverse the phase of a second identical track. Your daw does not reverse the phase of any audio at this time as indeed it cannot. What it does do is reverse the bit order of your audio sample, so the the above byte now becomes 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0. Now before you feed this to the the da converter, these two bytes get put together like this. If you have two zeroes in the same time slot, either track, then you get a 0. If you have two 1's in the same time slot, either track, you get a 1. But if you have a 0 in either track and a 1 in the other, you always get 0! And since you told your daw to reverse the phase of the whole track, that's going to be true for every byte of digital information in that second track. So--let's exclusive or the above together and see what we get.
1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1
---------------
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 <- That's what we're feeding the da converter. And that's why schwa said what he said.
Oh, but before I go. I'll have to say that, in the future, I plan on matching the right daw to the right voice. That means I'll be using Reaper exclusively for one of my friends. You see, his voice has a certain do-doey quality, and as reaper had been proven, (scientifically, in a double blind test), to be the very best at....ok,ok,ok,OK I'll shut up and pick my guitar now.
Gosh, youz folks are a tough audience!! :>)
Cheers
Jim
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08-27-2008, 08:50 PM
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#176
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 506
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Jim, I think I'm about to fall into your trap.
So for everyone else reading this (like me) who doesn't get your subtle parody:
Quote:
Now you tell your daw to reverse the phase of a second identical track. Your daw does not reverse the phase of any audio at this time as indeed it cannot. What it does do is reverse the bit order of your audio sample...
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The DAW actually does reverse the phase. It uses the mighty phase reversal algorthm:
newsample=oldsample*(-1)
that is, to simply multiply all the samples by negative one!
This is not the same as reversing the order of bits according to the mathematics of any universe that I am familiar with.
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08-28-2008, 01:17 AM
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#177
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the all new rob
If the food coming out of your kitchen tastes like shit, do you complain about the utensils or appliances? Seems just about as logical to me.
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Couldnt agree more
By the way your ID ZEE sounds like shit
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08-28-2008, 05:58 AM
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#178
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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I did a tiny bit of binary at college some years ago but i have forgotten most of it, but I seemed to remember some thing like 1 + 1 = 0 and 0 + 0 = 0
I looked it up and I was nearly right, but i had forgotten to carry one. So this is what I found on the Interwebs.
Adding binary numbers is very similar to adding decimal numbers, first an example:
adding binary numbers
Let's look at the above example step by step:
1 + 1 = 0 (carry one)
1 + 1 (+ the carry) = 1 (carry one)
0 + 1 (+ the carry) = 0 (carry one)
1 + 0 (+ the carry) = 0 (carry one)
1 + 0 (+ the carry) = 0 (carry one)
0 + 1 (+ the carry) = 0 (carry one)
1 + 0 (+ the carry) = 0 (carry one)
Meaning that 0 + 1 does not equal 0
1 + 0 doesn't equal 0 either - rather obviously they both equal 1
Nor is there any such thing as -1 to my understanding, so while you might think 0 - 1 equals -1, it can't because there is only 0 or 1 to choose from.
So there
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
Last edited by Tedwood; 08-28-2008 at 06:13 AM.
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08-28-2008, 06:07 AM
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#179
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,758
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I'd prefer French Existential Philosophers of the 12th Century for $200, please.
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08-28-2008, 06:15 AM
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#180
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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It's alright for you Schwa - you know what your talking about
None of us do - or should that be: 0 of us do
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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#181
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire. Where men are men and sheep are very afraid.
Posts: 65
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Way to waste my afternoon chaps.
I first saw this post when it went up and ignored it.
How it's grown. I just spent the last hour reading from start to finish and went through the whole gammut of emotions from anger at his abusiveness and bad manners to laughing like a drain at some of the answers.
I did however find one of zees posts from 05-11 which says
Hi
This software is very close to being perfect
The sound is just great !
I think there are some very tolerant users here who have spent time trying to reason with this guy. If he had been a Tracktion user and in KVRs Traction forum he would have been burned 5 pages back.
At no point has he mentioned what his setup is. Might be a soundblaster and some Creative speakers. If that's the case should I throw my Genelecs and Delta card away and make my tunes sound like mp3s too?
Nulling. One of the most annoying buzzwords I've come accross.
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08-28-2008, 09:00 AM
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#182
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire. Where men are men and sheep are very afraid.
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I'd prefer French Existential Philosophers of the 12th Century for $200, please.
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Satre: Is the glass of milk half full or half empty?
Zee: It's sour.
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08-28-2008, 10:16 AM
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#183
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radox The Green
Nulling. One of the most annoying buzzwords I've come accross.
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Yes, I prefer the term: Phase Cancellation BS Discrimination Test,
that is: PC(BS)DT
love those nested acronyms! (hope it catches on)
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08-28-2008, 10:25 AM
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#184
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radox The Green
Satre: Is the glass of milk half full or half empty?
Zee: It's sour.
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Descartes: I think, therefore I am not sure.
Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that milk does not prove anything.
Magritte: This is not a glass of milk.
Zeno: Hey, did it just move?
Kant: Hmmm, it' reasonably pure, but that's not an imperative.
Einstein: Depends on how fast it is.
Socrates: I know that I don't know that. You tell me.
nightscope: It nulls OK.
gofer: Now it's empty, thanks.
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08-28-2008, 10:32 AM
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#185
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire. Where men are men and sheep are very afraid.
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guod3
Yes, I prefer the term: Phase Cancellation BS Discrimination Test,
that is: PC(BS)DT
love those nested acronyms! (hope it catches on)
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STOP NOW!!!!
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08-28-2008, 10:35 AM
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#186
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire. Where men are men and sheep are very afraid.
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
Descartes: I think, therefore I am not sure.
Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that milk does not prove anything.
Magritte: This is not a glass of milk.
Zeno: Hey, did it just move?
Kant: Hmmm, it' reasonably pure, but that's not an imperative.
Einstein: Depends on how fast it is.
Socrates: I know that I don't know that. You tell me.
nightscope: It nulls OK.
gofer: Now it's empty, thanks.
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Buddha can you spare a dime.
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08-28-2008, 10:41 AM
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#187
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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JC: Don't nail me on that
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08-28-2008, 10:57 AM
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#188
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire. Where men are men and sheep are very afraid.
Posts: 65
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Mayor of Hiroshima: What the fuck was that bang?
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08-28-2008, 11:06 AM
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#189
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Shakespeare: That's not the question.
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08-28-2008, 11:50 AM
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#190
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Spike Milligan: I told you I was ill
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__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-28-2008, 12:13 PM
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#191
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Clark Kent: Aaarrghhh, it's Kryptonite!
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08-28-2008, 12:24 PM
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#192
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Superman: So what's the big deal with the Kriptonite Clark?
,
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-28-2008, 12:33 PM
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#193
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Clark Kent: So am I half you or are you half me, Supie?
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08-28-2008, 08:12 PM
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#194
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 223
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Hi guys
Missed me ?
I had to make sure that what I said was fully justified, so I used the time I was banned from this forum to do a little more daw audio output quality research...
Despite that I don't think I'll retract myself from anything I said about reaper's sound, I'll add to this thread that ''sound vs tools'' , reaper is probably by far the best choice around.
I won't trash this daw's audio engine no more if you guys accept me back
Awwww so cute
Last edited by Zee; 08-28-2008 at 08:16 PM.
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08-28-2008, 08:26 PM
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#195
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee
I won't trash this daw's audio engine no more if you guys accept me back
\
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ummm you trashed reapers audio engine? I dont remember that?!?!?
I think that is the least of your worries, friend.
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08-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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#196
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
ummm you trashed reapers audio engine? I dont remember that?!?!?
I think that is the least of your worries, friend.
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Is that how you percieved what I said ?
Cause it was my only worry... truly
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08-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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#197
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee
Is that how you percieved what I said ?
Cause it was my only worry... truly
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no, seriously, i didnt think you were trashing reaper at all actually.
i just thought you were delusional about the hosts sounding different thing.
Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 08-28-2008 at 08:37 PM.
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08-28-2008, 08:31 PM
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#198
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 223
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Deleted by me (ZEE)
Last edited by Zee; 08-28-2008 at 09:17 PM.
Reason: Forum bug posted twice the previous post
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08-28-2008, 08:33 PM
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#199
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
no, seriously, i didnt think you were trashing reaper at all actually.
i just thought you were delusional about the hosts sounding different thing.
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Don't get me started again.... I wasn't delusional... I surrender to it is all.... I can't allow myself to do nothing while progress steps in...
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08-28-2008, 08:36 PM
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#200
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee
Don't get me started again.... I wasn't delusional... I surrender to it is all.... I can't allow myself to do nothing while progress steps in...
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where is this progress you speak of?
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