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Old 09-01-2014, 02:50 PM   #1
JohnnyMusic
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Default Help with setting up a new machine for Reaper

Hello All,
This is my first post on this forum.
I am about to build a new machine (parts are on the way) for running Reaper, which is new to me, and I am hoping you guys can get me off to a good start. I mainly am looking for advice on the latest advice on setting up and tweaking the machine to start off so I am working with as optimized a system as possible. I will read the user guide to learn use of the program itself and post here if I get stuck.
If the info I am asking about is on the forum or website somewhere, I'll gladly go read it on my own if you point out where to find it.
I am currently using an ensoniq paris system on an XP machine. It is the only DAW i've ever used. I want to have more flexibility and routing and am ready to move beyond the limitations of my old system.

The use of the new DAW will be for tracking real instruments, drums, guitars, and vocals, drums, keyboards, then mixing in reaper, maybe mastering in reaper as well. I don't do midi at this time. Use real guitars and drums. So, limited need for amp sims etc. My plan initially is to focus on using and learning mostly the stock effects etc before trying a whole lot of extra vst plugins and so on, but will try a few if what I need is not available in reaper.

My new build:
AMD fx 8350 8 core 4.0 ghz, CM 212 hyper evo cpu cooler
ASUS mobo M5A97 LE R2.0 970
Windows 8.1 64 bit
32 gb ddr3 1866 ram, mushkin
VGA card MSI n210-MD1GD3H/LP GEForce 210
SSD 256G, crucial MX-100
HDD 500 gb seagate barracuda SD500DM022 7200 rpm 7.2 K 16MB C
Ext Hard drive for back up, WD BUZG0010BBK-NESN RT (usb 3.0
DVD RW ASUS
Rosewill PSU 630W
Upgrading case fans to Noctua NS-S12A pwm (plan to have 1 intake lower front of ATX case and one at upper back exhausting, in addition to cpu cooler.)
Unless there is a glaring issue with my components, I want to use these as they are already ordered.

Interface: Motu 828x expanded with a Motu 8 pre via ADAT.

What I have been able to find for set up:
1) Update drivers for the MOBO chip set
2) Turn off troublesome power management in BIOS:
APM, amd turboboost, cool n quiet, C1E
3) Preferences, buffering, deselect "autodetect number of threads needed in audio processing" set to 4. Have also seen advice to set to "1". I read a few threads where this was a problem with amd 8350 in windows 8.1, anyone have updates on this?
4) disable anticipative effects processing
5) prefs, audio, buffering, uncheck "allow on tracks w/o effects"

Further questions:
6)should the case fan, cpu cooler set up I am plannig be ok to cool the machine?

7)I mostly have read that the best set up would be to have os, programs on SSD and data to HDD. SSD for quick boot, which I don't particularly care about. Is this the case? For playback performance I would have thought that accessing the audio files from the data drive faster would be more important but I don't know enough about drives to fully understand this- Any comments or advice here? I will be backing up my data on the external drive and again boot speed doesn't matter to me too much. Would I be ok doing the opposite and running the os and programs from the HDD? Data from SSD?

8)Are there specific things, in addition to what I posted above, that I should do with Windows 8.1 to optimize that would apply to all systems or this system specifically if anyone has a similar setup (this will be an audio only computer, I may download the needed driver updates, but then will disconnect the internet and update things through usb as needed). I read about a "batchfile" that disables a number of un-needed services in 8.1, is this a good idea? (If I understand correctly, I don't need to be overly concerned about latency because I am going to monitor through my interface for tracking and not reaper).

9) What are the buffer settings that I need to adjust and be aware of? Again if latency in reaper is not an issue for me because I live monitor through my interface, My understanding is that I can have this on the higher side for stability.

10) Could I use my old windows xp computer for an effects farm? It has an amd athlon X2 and 2 gigs ram. How, in general would this be done and how much would it boost my effects processing power?
I don't know if I'll need this, but I am hoping I can render a project of 40-50 tracks, most with 3-4 bands of eq, 1 compressor each, some reverbs or delays and other occasional "special effects", some editing and comping of takes.

Thanks in advance for your help, and again, anything that is nicely summarized elsewhere that I haven't found, just point it out and I'll read it myself. Hopefully I can build and launch this thing without too many nasty surprises!
John

Last edited by JohnnyMusic; 09-01-2014 at 02:55 PM. Reason: add a detail
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:38 PM   #2
styzer
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HI JohnnyMusic,

Not sure if this could help, or if Jim would have time but I'd suggest you get a hold of him.

Jim Roseberry : jim@studiocat.com

I bought 2 machines from him, and he sets everything up to maximize whatever use and software you'll use.

Hope this helps, or at least maybe he could direct you to resources...

regards,

styzer
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:59 PM   #3
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Default Thanks Styzer

Thanks for the tip Styzer, I'll see if is willing to help or give suggestions.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:29 PM   #4
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You're welcome! All the best, this is a major project...
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #5
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Default machine built .. but

I built my machine and it is up and running.
However, I haven't been able to test and get to know reaper because I can't get my interface software to run without locking.
I have a new motu 828x and a motu 8 pre.
The cuemix fx software is crashing with an appcrash error in windows 8.1.
Anyone having this issue? (i realize it has nothing to do with reaper).
I have contacted motu and so far their suggestions haven't worked and I'm waiting to see if they have more help for me.
More to come...
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:46 AM   #6
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Sry the only tipp i can give is:
if you have such problems with your new system right from the start, wrap the cord around the Motu interfaces and dispose of the manure in the bin
or bring the stuff at Motu on the table.

On Win Systems, Motu drivers always unstable. I've never seen a Motu product, since 1998 or so, that runs rock stable.
SRY Motu but this is the fact.

-and a good audio system has to run rock stable, otherwise it would be a horror, especially for live recordings or similar.

I know, not cheap compared to other manufacturers, a well-known German manufacturer, but you get rock stable products for the prise...and should it be necessary once but for some reason, a support of all first cream.

Last edited by ELP; 09-25-2014 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:51 AM   #7
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there is nothing to maximize with Windows. Win 7 or 8.whatever runs stable. (I am not a microsoft-fan, but that is fact.)

so, if there is any problem on a machine running W7/8 out of the box occuring after you made sure Win7/8 is running smoothly you know: its the other thing, in your case the Motu or its drivers or something.

there is no need to get it to a "specialist". if there is something not working smoothly, one or more components are faulty. that intelligence doesnt need a "specialist" to be figured out. the last thing you add to chain formerly working is the faulty one and you should get rid of it.

if you find some "specialists" workarounds these issues, you can be sure, that bigger issues appear sooner or later, most sooner. :-(( a system hold together with "specialists" duct tape isnt really a working system. its a time bomb and a time waster.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:16 PM   #8
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Default Thanks for the input

Thanks for chiming in everyone.

As far as the computer before I added the motu software. It is a new system and it seemed to be running fine and still does. Its just that cuemix crashes. However I hadn't really used the computer for anything that would tax it. I did have to tweak some BIOS settings at the suggestion of ASUS to get the system to run my RAM at 1866 (which is what the ram was spec'd to run at), and had to move the graphics card to a different Pci-e slot because I was getting electrical buzzing noises when I would move the mouse cursor. But after that, every thing seems fine. Again I've really just run firefox, internet explorer, and cuemix and reaper. Haven't really used reaper though as I've been trying to get cuemix fx working.

I wanted a system that could do 12 channels or so for full drum kit recording. For the money, there aren't a lot of choices like this 828 with the 8 pre connected via ADAT. Focusrite 18i20 is similar, with maybe an octopre added?. Anyone used one of those on windows 8.1 (I read somewhere the focusrite wasn't playing nice with windows 8.1 either)? Any other suggestions for what I am looking for? What about roland studiocapture?
I don't have the budget for an rme system that would get me that many channels, or I would consider it. How about 12 or more channels of converters without preamps? I have 4 outboard channels and a mixer, so could possibly go that route, but I haven't found much that is in my price range.

Toss out suggestions if you have em. I'm still in the return window for guitar center, so this motu stuff is going back if I can't get it running. Any suggested system needs to be able to run stable on win 8.1.
Thanks!
John
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:59 PM   #9
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Whatever you do: !!! DO NOT OVERCLOCK YOUR SYSTEM !!! no matter whatever anyone here might suggest !!! DO NOT OVERCLOCK YOUR SYSTEM !!!

you could use your old PC for an effects farm, but i think your new PC is so powerfull, you wont need it!
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:20 AM   #10
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Especially when it comes to Ram, the hook is often in the detail.
Especially since your Mushkin Ram is not specified by Asus as QVL ,
32GB (4 * 8GB? Red / Black?)
For the board represents 32 GB the upper limit and the 1866 are also maximum timings.
Ram faults often very insidiously noticeable. Here is a crash, there even a crash, 7zip, zip, etc. pp files can not unpack clean, sporadic driver crashes, depending on which space is being used. etc., etc..

But that does not mean that your Ram is not running with the timings and full 32 GB.
But if a board is set the max spec of 1866 not automatically, you should be very careful and such a system only after various stress tests declare as
"it works".

I would advise you to leave the prime stress test run times for some time.
http://www.mersenne.org/download/

emphasis on full 8 Core and much Ram test.
So .. Blend or Custom, 8 Threats, full Ram.


Quote:
For the money, there aren't a lot of choices
I don't have the budget for an rme system that would get me that many channels
Only conditionally:
How it looks with this?
----------
Motu cost:
Motu 828x ~777
Motu 8 pre ~549
~1.326€
---------
New system:

1*RME HDSPe RayDAT 36 Ins / 36 Outs /2 MIDI I/O ~569 €
2*OctoPre MkII Dynamic ~521 €
~1.611€

dif only ~285€

you get no "time waster" , stable driver, one rock solid audio system and of course
one famouse RME Card Interface with great Software like Total Mix and Digicheck (for ultra low latency PCI-E is much better than over USB or Firewire)
With 2 OctoPre MkII Dynamic you have now 16CH Mic(Line)Pre´s over 2*ADAT at 44.1-48 or 16CH at 88.2-96 over 4*ADAT.
Sync over ADAT or BNC and you can use the Focusride Pre´s also for DA Monitoring/Mixing over ADAT to Line OUT
=16 Mic(Line)Pre Ins & 16 Outs 44.1 to 96.0 kHz
or you can use AES/EBU/SPDIF
The quality of the Octopre MkIIs Dynamic is really excellent.
(For the money you are looking for this elsewhere in vain.)

and no I am not working for RME..
but I am one stress free user; since 1999.

Last edited by ELP; 09-26-2014 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:19 AM   #11
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Default questions on overclocking, testing.

I appreciate the input of you guys with experience setting up a PC.
ELP and rmm:
1) Am I technically overclocking when I did what ASUS told me to do, which was to set the RAM speed manually in the BIOS? I kinda wondered about that. But wanted to get the most out of the RAM possible. Would I be better off just letting the bios auto set the ram speed even if it is a little slower than the max spec? I'm not sure how much more performance I am getting anyway? (I admit I wasn't aware of the QVL for the asus board when I bought the RAM).

2)Could pushing the ram too fast be causing a driver crash? I will say the crash is not "here and there" but every time I try to use cuemix fx. It runs for a few minutes then the menus freeze. Every time. It seems fine until it crashes. I did uninstall and reload the cuemix application, but that didn't solve it.

3)This is the exact ram I have: (another model of mushkin is what was bundled with the system (silver line 2 x 4 GB)
I would really like the RAM I have to work because it was expensive and I can't return it at this point.
Model
Brand
Mushkin Enhanced
Series
Essentials
Model
994132
Type
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Tech Spec
Capacity
32GB (4 x 8GB)
Speed
DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
Cas Latency
13
Timing
13-13-13-32
Voltage
1.5V
Multi-channel Kit
Quad Channel Kit
Recommend Use
High Performance or Gaming Memor

4) How does this plan sound:
a) If you agree that going from ram speed of 1333 to 1866 isn't a significant difference, I could try letting the bios set the ram speed and try running cuemix.
b) If that doesn't work, I could test the ram. Should I test it at the auto set speed or the 1866 speed set manually? If there isn't going to be a big performance difference, I will just let it auto set it.
c) I will look at that system you cited ELP. For this Motu system, beside simultaneous track count, I like the phantom power for each individual channel. Also the features of cuemix are just fine for my needs if it would just work. I am fine monitoring through the interface only, so latency with host computer software isn't a big concern. I would rather avoid having to tweak to decrease latency through the computer.

Thanks so much for your input and suggestions!
John
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:41 AM   #12
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Only a few applications benefit from the faster memory modules and the benefits fall is very low.
For exampwe Intel sets with DDR3-1066 and DDR3-1333 Primarily on stability, as above DDR3-1333 assembly with four modules is extremely problematic.
And the same for AMD
Greater 1333 max 2 module

Test your 1866 and the 1333 system with prime.(but not only a few minutes) And test if the motu software runs with the 1333

But my statement remains the same as before: I've never seen a Motu system on Windows that is really rock stable.

However, Windows is clearly the most stable and better system. To times
to spark a discussion.


And if you look at the Motu website and you see far and wide only MAC Screenshoots, at the latest you should be keen-eared.
Whether doing some kind of strategy behind it, who knows.

But I would also be taught a better

Last edited by ELP; 09-26-2014 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:39 PM   #13
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If you set the timing to short the memorycell/bank will not be charged fully before the cpu might want to read it and that will cause a erromessage/programmcrash that will sate something like: the action read could not be done. same goes for the write process.
i think the automatic setting would be the best choice, since your hardware is very quick anyway.
you can mix many more then 200 tracks (including reapers own plugins on many of those 200+ tracks) with your current hw-konfiguration.
well if some vst/vsti suck: that Ram tweaking wont help much, not worth the effort in my oppinion. i would rather go for good vst/vsti plugins that do not suck and dont use such stupid copy protection like iLok and worse.

Last edited by rmm; 09-27-2014 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:56 PM   #14
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i must add if the ram is not detected as a 1866mhz Ram then someone did pull you over the table. if you have 1866mhz ram installed then by any means set the speed to 1866mhz and enable dualcannel or tripplechannel(that is only intel i guess) or quadchannel configuration . the higher the better.

Last edited by rmm; 09-26-2014 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:08 PM   #15
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Default sorry had a small typo

if not ... then someone did pull you over the table!
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Old 09-27-2014, 02:58 AM   #16
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Hi,

it is generally hard to guess, why Cuemix crashes. It could be several sources of your problem.
- MOTU software (similarly like other posters, i've also find MOTU software for Windows isn't particularly great in terms of stability, but it can changed over years as it my experience from past)
- improper setup of software compatibility issue with another running program on your system (sometimes it could be outdated system library or chipset driver), this is very hard to spot without tedious experiments with updates.
- hadrware issue (RAM, MB..)

I would concentrate at last point before asking MOTU support.

I usually built dedicated computers for audio and haven't to think about casual Call of Duty there, so stability and reliability is always most important thing to me. So generally said, i'm not so big fan of AMD boards and enthusiast PC components in general. Reason for first, besides lower speed and higher TDP of their CPUs, is hardware compatibility. Most audio and video manufacturers develop and primarily test their products with Intel chipsets, USB controllers and their driver stacks. So it is very common, that support guys in case of problem never tried particular configuration and will be very reserved, when they find, you have AMD setup.
Reason for second is that enthusiast components (MBs, memories) are usually designed for speed and flashy feature sets over reliability and marketed primarily for gamers. Unfortunately neither AMD or Intel currently make their own new boards (so i usually come to Supermicro for professional boards and Kingston RAM, because of their great availability and compatibility selector at their page).
Enthusiast boards commonly have some kind of stupid autotweaking Windows tools and features in BIOS or at least very aggressive default settings for memory timings and PCIe. To bump its feature set, there is commonly added lots of unnecessary components like additional subpar SATA controllers, WiFi chips etc.
I'm not talking about that for primary discouragement of you. It can be built reliable system with AMD and such board, but it might takes some time with setup (and maybe hardware replacements and swaps) to proceed there.

My tips.
- get memtest+ ISO http://www.memtest.org , burn it to CD and test your current setup with few passes. It is great as it doesn't depend on installed OS and reliable test almost all of your memory. In case of any errors with test.
- deactivate all of autotuning craps or overclocking profiles in BIOS (leave everything at rated values for components)
- lower your memory clocks to 1600 or 1333 (i have also found, that this is sensitive thing especially with larger memory modules).
- slightly increase memory voltage in BIOS
- it can be also faulty particular memory module, so you can test it one by one to exclude faulty one

- after memtest do mentioned stability tests with Prime

So far it was just tests for general stability of your computer, if you proceed there, you just excluded basic issues.
Then i would also try to use different USB port. USB 2.0 ports are handled by AMD chipset and 3.0 ports are handled by auxiliary ASMedia chip, so there could be some difference.
If it still won't run good, i would ask MOTU support for assistance.

Regards,

Michal
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm View Post
if not ... then someone did pull you over the table!
Sometimes detection fails only at particular combination of MB and memory. It depends on BIOS and its handling of extended profiles.. It is one of most common issue addressed in BIOS updates besides adding of new CPU models. So same memory module can runs well with automatic detection in another computer.
Sometimes just slight increase of RAM supply voltage can do the trick for stability at higher clocks.

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Old 09-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Sometimes detection fails only at particular combination of MB and memory. It depends on BIOS and its handling of extended profiles.. It is one of most common issue addressed in BIOS updates besides adding of new CPU models. So same memory module can runs well with automatic detection in another computer.
Sometimes just slight increase of RAM supply voltage can do the trick for stability at higher clocks.

Michal
that sometimes happens only if you buy RAM that is much newer then the board and has a higher jedec specification (version number), wich is not supported by the mainboard and i must say "muskin" is a company that always produces such chips. i prefer the company "corsair" and "samsung"

most of the time BIOS-Updates cant fix the jedec problem, the chipset just does not support it and if you really wanted the higher spec., you would have to buy a new board.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:05 AM   #19
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I've used MOTU interfaces for a long time and they have always been very stable and reliable. I use Cuemix all the time and never had a crash of any kind. That includes the ability to shut off the interface with Cuemix inadvertently left open, pull the firewire cable, plug it back in later and turn it on, realize Cuemix is still open, and... it just connects and works like I did nothing wrong. Disclaimer: I have not used the new 828x! I have 2 828mk3's and an 828mk2. It looks like the 828x is basically the mk3 converted to thunderbolt (+ USB).

Take that data point for what it's worth...

Are you using it with thunderbolt or USB? I would guess that there are restrictions on the USB option vs. thunderbolt but that's speculation. At any rate, based on my experience with the firewire models, this new data connection option would be my first suspicion.

My hard drive tip is much easier!
SSD for OS/apps/audio*

* This is your 'high performance' audio work space. Do this for very high track count sessions or live sound mixing while simultaneously recording multitrack to disc.

The advice of using multiple drives to separate OS from audio applies to HDD's. A single SSD is much higher performance.

Last edited by serr; 09-27-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 06:12 PM   #20
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i overlooked something:

2) Turn off troublesome power management in BIOS:
APM, amd turboboost, cool n quiet, C1E
3) Preferences, buffering, deselect "autodetect number of threads needed in audio processing" set to 4. Have also seen advice to set to "1". I read a few threads where this was a problem with amd 8350 in windows 8.1, anyone have updates on this?
4) disable anticipative effects processing

Those tips will slow down your system and cause a electric energy bill that will blow up your arse.

dont follow those advices!
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:07 PM   #21
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Advice of setting audio processing threads to 1 may have come from me.

And it's correct when the anticipative effects processing feature is disabled (globally in preferences).

It can be difficult to determine optimal settings sometimes because with smaller projects Reaper will perform flawlessly with even worst case wrong preference settings!

You can get significantly increased processing ability by turning anticipative effects processing on in preferences/audio/buffering. Then disable it on any track with 3rd party vst or au plugins inserted by right-clicking the track and selecting Track performance options > Prevent anticipative effects.
Note: If you turn anticipative effects processing on with a project open, you need to close and reopen it after clicking apply. If you don't, you'll think this just made things worse.

If you have anticipative effects processing enabled in preferences/buffering, you can get further significantly increased processing ability by setting audio processing threads to the number of CPU cores available (you can use the 'auto' setting). You need to have anticipative effects processing enabled first or this setting will have the opposite effect and shut you right down!

Setting the media buffer to 200ms (default was 1200ms) in preferences/audio/buffering also helps a lot. (As if this buffer gets in the way of itself for larger projects.) I believe the higher setting is a workaround for slower hard drives.

Well that's what I think I know anyway. Reaper seems to have no limits whatsoever with very large projects since I've arrived at this.

Last edited by serr; 09-27-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Setting the media buffer to 200ms (default was 1200ms) in preferences/audio/buffering also helps a lot. (As if this buffer gets in the way of itself when that large for larger projects.) I believe the higher setting is a workaround for slower hard drives.
if you have the files on a ssd 200ms may be enough, but that setting can also increase cpu load, especialy on high track counts.
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm View Post
if you have the files on a ssd 200ms may be enough, but that setting can also increase cpu load, especialy on high track counts.
I found the opposite, especially at high track counts. If you have the project on a reasonable drive, 200ms is more efficient. (Reasonable means not 5400rpm and not external USB.)
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:20 PM   #24
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ok, if you say so. then you have not reached the limits of your ssd wich is very dificult since a good one does 500MB/s wich means like 2800 tracks in CD-Quality.
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:39 PM   #25
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ok that 2800 track doesnt cut it fully.
it also depends on the number of IOPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOPS) the SSD can do.
what i was trying to say, if your SSD reaches the limit you will see a increase of CPU-Load and or dropouts caused by waitsates the OS cannot compensate. it may be, that reaper would already cause a CPU-Load of 100% before you start to play or record because the OS cannot deliver the requested performance. (im speaking about windows, dont know about mac that much)
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:30 PM   #26
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what i was trying to say, if your SSD reaches the limit you will see a increase of CPU-Load and or dropouts caused by waitsates the OS cannot compensate.
That would certainly be the case.

You can actually get plenty of performance from a 7200rpm HDD on a SATA bus in most cases even with large HD projects. Using a SSD basically makes the I/O performance so high that it never needs CPU time.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:39 PM   #27
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Default RAM settings, other questions.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try some of them and report back. Swapping out components would be a pain in the arse and a last resort as it is really not in the budget. So I will try some other things first:

A few things:
-The 828x is connected via USB 2.0

-The cue mix freeze occurs even if reaper isn't open. The program continues to show audio on the meters for a mic connected to the interface. Its just that all the menus lock. Windows indicates an appcrash error that specifies the motu driver (the error is message is posted below). The computer otherwise seems to run fine, but again, hasn't been stress tested.
-I bought the RAM new from new egg, I trust the specs, but...

-I thought I had the BIOS set up ok but, after you guys mentioned it I did a bit more research. It appears that the 8350 perhaps cannot handle quad channel at 1866 (or something to that effect. So I will try letting the bios auto set the RAM speed at a lower rate and see if that helps, since I have 4 sticks in there. Could this cause the error I am getting?

-If that doesn't make any difference I will do some testing of the memory and processor and go from there.

- I'll check the software set up to make sure everything is set correctly. As far as other programs, there isn't much to conflict as this is a dedicated audio machine. I have turned off the internal sounds. Anything else that I should make sure to disable in windows 8.1 that might conflict with the software?

Thanks again for your suggestions everyone.
John

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: CueMix FX.exe
Application Version: 4.0.5.9644
Application Timestamp: 52c5de94
Fault Module Name: MSVCR100.dll
Fault Module Version: 10.0.30319.1
Fault Module Timestamp: 4ba1dbbe
Exception Code: 40000015
Exception Offset: 0008d635
OS Version: 6.3.9600.2.0.0.768.101
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 6415
Additional Information 2: 6415ddddab80b6d9f5b3208d0a1538b6
Additional Information 3: 7346
Additional Information 4: 73464ea1e0e282522fb0707067395b37
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:52 PM   #28
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MSVCR100.dll
is part of the microsoft visual c 2010 runtime.
maybe there is a servicepack or a other update for the runtime.
check that out.
im shure there is a servicepack 1 (SP1).
find out if it is installed in your system already or not.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:01 PM   #29
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Did you check the following things:

Firmware Updater v1.0.4 | Aug. 12, 2014
http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/a...28x104_win.zip

Latest Driver v4.0.5.9644 | Jan. 20, 2014
http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/a..._Win_59644.zip
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:08 PM   #30
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Just found:
The Versionnumber of the SP1 is: Version 10.0.40219.1
The Version you have installed is: Version 10.0.30319.1
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
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-If that doesn't make any difference I will do some testing of the memory and processor and go from there.
^^^^^^^
It is actually reversed.
Start with this as first step before messing with anything else. If you leave memtest successfully running for few passes without any reported error, you are fine and it won't be necessary to do any further steps with hardware.
I usually recommend to do this after every change of memory setup, that means another settings in BIOS, adding or reordering modules in slots.. etc.

Also memory related issues usually affects multiple applications and leads to weird general problems. As you told, only CueMix is crashing, so it couldn't be necessarily memory issue, but it is definitely better to prove it by tests and know, that this is fine especially if it is brand new computer.

And to software issue.. you can also try older version of driver, just to see if anything changes. Maybe they have some regression there.
http://www.motu.com/download/downloa...?product_id=21

Good luck!

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Old 09-28-2014, 06:12 AM   #32
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Yeah, don't test your ram by trial and error running an app!

Run a proper ram test and loop it to run for 24 hours or something.


I would focus on that usb connection next. I know it would be restricted vs. the thunderbolt connection but it shouldn't just lock up. They have an error message that will display in the control panel if you exceed the bandwidth of the data connection. It doesn't just crash. I suspect that, based on my experience with the unit with firewire (it just works) and then based on the steady stream of issues people experience with usb.

Do you not have a thunderbolt port on such a newer build?
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Yeah, don't test your ram by trial and error running an app!

Run a proper ram test and loop it to run for 24 hours or something.


I would focus on that usb connection next. I know it would be restricted vs. the thunderbolt connection but it shouldn't just lock up. They have an error message that will display in the control panel if you exceed the bandwidth of the data connection. It doesn't just crash. I suspect that, based on my experience with the unit with firewire (it just works) and then based on the steady stream of issues people experience with usb.

Do you not have a thunderbolt port on such a newer build?
OP has no Thunderbolt port as he has AMD setup, personally I've never seen TB port on any AMD board. Anyway TB ports on Windows PCs are very rare and biggest issue is currently with manufacturers and software support. Hardware (audio interfaces, video I/O cards) commonly don't have Windows driver for TB operation. It is chicken-egg situation. Apple is basically monoculture, so when models of their computers ditched firewire and started to release models with TB. It was clear message for manufacturers - if they want to use their high performance hardware on Apple platform, they has to adopt TB. On general PC platform situation varies much more.

But I personally don't think, that TB so critical for most uses with USB audio interfaces and stable USB driver is very reliable solution. Bandwidth is really not an issue for most cases (i reliable captured whole MADI signal through USB without any hiccups). TB has edge in lower CPU utilization and more reliable timing of transfers, so buffers can be shorter and you've got lower latency. But difference between TB and good USB implementation will be something like 5ms in total latency. So unless one is using computer as real-time audio processor (I know you are mixing through it.. this is different situation), it doesn't matter for normal tracking/mixing. Especially if there is available something with DSP mixer like Motu CueMix or RME TotalMix, which comfortable solves any required cue mixes for artists.

And in OP's particular case, i don't guess USB connection will be culprit. He recently described (at least I've got it), that CueMix crashes, but audio is running, meters in Reaper are alive. If there will be USB issue (like intermittent disconnections), he will most likely lost sync in DAW, there will be buffer overflow and sometimes it is also accompanied by endless repeat of last buffer at audio interface (tdtttdtttdtttdtttdtt) sound.

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Old 09-28-2014, 07:37 AM   #34
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Yeah, what you say is all reasonable.

Just throwing all that out there to consider.
I ask what changed? (between the 828mk3 & the 828x)
Answer: no firewire
I know USB uses CPU time to function vs. firewire and now thunderbolt.

That's the line of thinking.

I'm still using firewire here. Both my computers are pre-thunderbolt (by 1 year!). I'll probably evolve into that in a couple/few years when a new interface would give me new features/abilities and not just be a sideways move.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:07 AM   #35
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I know USB uses CPU time to function vs. firewire and now thunderbolt.
...
I'm still using firewire here. Both my computers are pre-thunderbolt (by 1 year!). I'll probably evolve into that in a couple/few years when a new interface would give me new features/abilities and not just be a sideways move.
Yes, there is still very slight (i would say negligible in terms of current computers power) overhead for USB transfers vs Firewire. This is actually very thing which gave USB soundcards bad name at its beginning. During normal operation this difference usually doesn't matter, but when someone pushed weaker computer to knees by processing, and if there wasn't really carefully chosen system process priorities or there were some user messup (eg. user forced to run whole DAW app with real-time priority), problems occurred.
Thunderbolt is (with simplification) handled like PCIe with additional functions for hot-plugging and device discovery. Most of further functionality for signal encoding and low level communication is handled by hardware chips. So it could achieve same practical performance as internal PCIe interfaces.

I think is reasonable idea to swap your firewire interfaces together with your next computers. In your case (mentioned live mixes), I believe, you really appreciate lower latencies.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:08 AM   #36
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Default Cuemix crashes

Hi Jonny,
did you use the USB 2.0 connection on the Asus? The black ones not the blue ones (USB 3.0). Heard of some trouble regarding downward-compatibility of Win8 USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 and MOTU cuemix.
Regarding your Ram. Isn't the Asus mobo for Dual-Channel Ram and you have 4-Channel Ram?
Greetings from Hamburg
Vinod
P.S. Don't do any Overclocking before your Systems runs with the dafault Settings.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:28 AM   #37
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Default Trouble shooting error.

Hello,
1) msmucr: I think I get what you are saying, but, my reasoning for resetting the ram speed before testing the memory is because I have found out that my processor doesn't support running 4 sticks of ram at 1866, so I intend to let the bios auto set it at a lower speed anyway.(its almost like I am overclocking it right now, which is not what i want to do, I want to be more conservative and go for stability). So why test the memory at a higher speed if I don't intend the run it that way. That way if it happened to solve the issue, I would not need to look any further. that said, I still intend to test the memory.
a)regarding RAM channels I am a little confused but from what I understand: my board supports only dual channel operation, but it supports 32 gb of ram as well. The ram doesn't determine the channels the Mobo does. Any ram with run in dual or quad, but the mobo has to support it. So each channel controlling 2 of the sticks should be a normal set up.

2) rmm thanks for the heads up. I had already updated the bios/mobo firmware, and the motu drive is the latest (perhaps, as suggested, reverting to an earlier driver would help?).

3) So the msvcr100.dll error could be related to a windows runtime issue? I'll see if I have the latest windows service pack. I should though because it is set to auto update right now, but I'll check it.

4) From what I have gathered, bandwidth with USB should not be a limitation. Maybe stability for whatever reason, but not bandwidth. plus I am only testing 1 channel at a time when it crashes. I'm pretty sure I connected to a 2.0 port but I'll double check and even try a different 2.0 port as part of the trouble shooting.

5) as stated below, very few amd boards, if any, with thunderbolt, I think there is a pci-e card adapter, but would have to confirm USB is the problem before messing with that. I intend to monitor through the hardware, not tweak the daw for latency. Again going for stability if possible.

You guys are really helpful. Thanks for discussing this and giving me ideas on troubleshooting.
I'll post an update after I try some of this stuff.
John
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMusic View Post
3) So the msvcr100.dll error could be related to a windows runtime issue? I'll see if I have the latest windows service pack. I should though because it is set to auto update right now, but I'll check it.
Hi Johny,
msvcrt100.dll is actually shorthand for Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime 10.0 . dynamic loadable library.
You don't need operating system service pack, you'll find updated (SP1) library there:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl....aspx?id=26999

Practically almost all programs developed in Visual C++ use it. And in most cases third party developers include it in setup file as required dependency, so it commonly updated before software is installed.

When issue is software related (eg. bug), memory address (offset) reported during your crash, tells where something went wrong, it can be, lets say, buffer overflow or incorrect pointer handling, program there for instance could incorrectly overwrite memory part with some executable code.
And operating system prevents further execution of code at that address by shutting process down. Programmer then can use so called debugging symbols (special file, which isn't usually distributed to clients), which, simply said, translates memory offsets to known items at source code.. So it will basically guide him to part, which needs to be fixed. Sorry for slight derail..

I personally don't bet, it will affects your issue, but you can try it, it is quite quick installation.

Michal
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:19 PM   #39
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Default question for msmucr

thanks for the response,
So are you saying this error I'm getting is for sure a problem with the driver that needs to be re written or fixed? Or could it be something else?
Also for any motu/cue mix fx users, assuming the program ran long enough to save my settings, can I run the 828 for recording to reaper without having cuemix open? (I of course want cue mix to run correctly, but at least could use the interface while I am trying get cuemix working).
Thanks

John

Last edited by JohnnyMusic; 09-28-2014 at 12:25 PM. Reason: added question
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:31 PM   #40
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regarding:
a)regarding RAM channels I am a little confused but from what I understand: my board supports only dual channel operation, but it supports 32 gb of ram as well. The ram doesn't determine the channels the Mobo does. Any ram with run in dual or quad, but the mobo has to support it. So each channel controlling 2 of the sticks should be a normal set up.

answer: YES
if your board does not support quadchannel then dualchannel is the choice.
if your board supports quadchannel at 1333Mhz it may be quicker then dualchannel at 1866Mhz
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