per-plugin instance Tempo manipulation

[DeBased]

I like syncing delays to tempo, but I hate hard-syncing, I like them to drift off the beat slightly. Unfortunately none of the delay plugs I've seen support this.

I can set delay times manually to achieve this effect, but I need these to follow tempo automation (or just future tempo changes), including for live use where I may floor-tap a different tempo each night. So it would be much better if Reaper could 'lie' to a plugin instance with a modified tempo value to achieve this drift. That way all tempo-syncing plugins (not just delays) could be sync-drift enabled, and keep that feel across any tempo changes automatically.

Each plugin instance would get these Tempo Mod options:

- relative: bpm scale (eg. 0.95x)
- absolute: bpm offset (eg. -10 bpm)
- absolute: millisecond offset (eg. +50ms)

These mods would be applied to the current project tempo in real-time, and reported this way to the plugin.

[Jae.Thomas]

seems like a great idea for this type of thing. perhaps like a midi plugin?

[DeBased]

I looked into that a while ago. Plugs don't get the tempo from MIDI, but from the VST interface directly, so it cannot be modified by 3rd parties.

I actually coded the JSFX to modify the current tempo value and calculate a modified millisecond value to apply to a delay's 'time' parameter. The problem there is that effect parameters are usually in normalized 0.0 - 1.0 range (ie. not in milliseconds) and also typically use a non-linear range (to make their GUI dials nicer to use). So mapping my MS value to the parameter is tricky, it would have to be reverse-engineered for each plugin (as they all use different MS ranges and curves), so it's not a universal solution.

Modifying the tempo would 'just work' for everything.

[Judders]

Soundtoys' Echoboy has shuffle/swing and rushing/dragging knobs that you can use as well as sync'ing to tempo.

Is that the kind of thing you're after?

[DeBased]

Unfortunately not. IIRC Shuffle/swing changes the gaps between alternating repeats (I don't usually use it), but it doesn't change the timing overall (ie. even repeats might happen faster, but odds happen later to compensate).

'Feel' just affects the first delay, all repeats after are still hard-synced to tempo (saying that it's really handy too).

What I need is that the tempo is slightly different, that causes each repeat to drift a little more than the previous one. Basically like setting a time value that's slightly longer or shorter than it should be for sync (easy to do manually, but it doesn't follow tempo changes correctly).

[Judders]

Originally Posted by DeBased

Unfortunately not. IIRC Shuffle/swing changes the gaps between alternating repeats (I don't usually use it), but it doesn't change the timing overall (ie. even repeats might happen faster, but odds happen later to compensate).

'Feel' just affects the first delay, all repeats after are still hard-synced to tempo (saying that it's really handy too).

What I need is that the tempo is slightly different, that causes each repeat to drift a little more than the previous one. Basically like setting a time value that's slightly longer or shorter than it should be for sync (easy to do manually, but it doesn't follow tempo changes correctly).

Hmmm... I'm really surprised no-one has thought to include this in a plugin!

If you want it later you could add a sample delay before a delay plugin on an aux channel. Not sure how you'd get it sooner...

[DeBased]

Yeah right? It seems so obvious to me, I never liked hard-sync'ed delays.

Adding an extra delay before the main delay plug is what Echoboy's 'Feel' param essentially does, but it's not the same thing as all the remaining repeats are still hard-sync'ed, ie. the gaps between them are still at exactly the project tempo, the whole lot are just shifted slightly by the extra initial delay.

[Judders]

Just tried Waves Supertap, and it seems like this behaves the way you'd want.

You can set the taps to the grid, then set them to free and make small changes and these changes move proportionally to tempo changes.

[DeBased]

Originally Posted by Judders

Just tried Waves Supertap, and it seems like this behaves the way you'd want.

You can set the taps to the grid, then set them to free and make small changes and these changes move proportionally to tempo changes.

Cool, I'll have to check that out. But manually adjusting each tap is too much work, and I really want to use my preferred delays - so I've just reverse-engineered their time parameter dials, and can now do what I want with my JSFX plugin (for 3 plugs so far, including ReaDelay, Echoboy and Guitar Rig 5's QuadDelay). Let me know if anyone wants to try it.

But yeah, having per-plugin instance tempo modification in Reaper would enable this for any tempo-syncing plugin.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by DeBased

Cool, I'll have to check that out. But manually adjusting each tap is too much work, and I really want to use my preferred delays - so I've just reverse-engineered their time parameter dials, and can now do what I want with my JSFX plugin (for 3 plugs so far, including ReaDelay, Echoboy and Guitar Rig 5's QuadDelay). Let me know if anyone wants to try it.

But yeah, having per-plugin instance tempo modification in Reaper would enable this for any tempo-syncing plugin.

Yeah man, that would be cool!

[DeBased]

In the meantime I've got my workaround JS script doing this with 4 reverse-engineered delay plugins: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1846538