Old 08-22-2011, 06:16 PM   #1
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default Source-Destination Editing

Hi all,

For those interested in Source-Destination editing with Reaper, I've attached the macros I've built for this purpose. If you'd like to change the workflow and/or add features feel free to edit the macros to your liking (and share them back with us).

Things you need to do:

1. Install the latest version of Reaper.

2. Install the latest version of SWS extensions.

3. Copy the "reaconsole_customcommands" file to Reaper's resource path folder (Options > Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder)

4. Import the provided actions into Reaper.

5. Watch the following video:

http://**************/clip/my-videos/819/vbq.mp4/

- Gembez
Attached Files
File Type: txt reaconsole_customcommands.txt (33 Bytes, 490 views)
File Type: reaperkeymap Source-Destination Editing.ReaperKeyMap (1.2 KB, 417 views)
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 06:23 PM   #2
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
Default

this is interesting but I'm not sure of the purpose without narration in the video.

What would one use this editing mode for?
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 06:33 PM   #3
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

I thought about narrating over the video but then decided captions would be easier on your ears. :-P

Source-Destination editing is mostly used in classical music editing. There are a bunch of threads on this forum about it, try searching for classical music editing and 4-point editing.
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 06:42 PM   #4
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Nice work! I will try this out tomorrow - thanks for sharing
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:19 PM   #5
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez View Post
I thought about narrating over the video but then decided captions would be easier on your ears. :-P

Source-Destination editing is mostly used in classical music editing. There are a bunch of threads on this forum about it, try searching for classical music editing and 4-point editing.
To summarize from my estimation:
Creating a multi-track comp from very long multi-take recordings that are continuous rather than on separate playlists.
You select the parts you like, hit the key command and it copies and pastes to a new set of tracks at the beginning of the session the returns you to your selection. The next time you do this the pasted portion goes immediately after the previous one.

That's what it looked like to me.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:23 PM   #6
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
To summarize from my estimation:
Creating a multi-track comp from very long multi-take recordings that are continuous rather than on separate playlists.
You select the parts you like, hit the key command and it copies and pastes to a new set of tracks at the beginning of the session the returns you to your selection. The next time you do this the pasted portion goes immediately after the previous one.

That's what it looked like to me.
Exactly. :-)
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:26 PM   #7
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
Default

What you figured out was cool.

Faced with the challenge, I would probably make regions for the bits that I like then ctrl+drag the regions to a new location in the order I need.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:29 PM   #8
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

I guess that would work too. I come from Pyramix so I was trying to replicate Pyramix's workflow in Reaper.
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 02:09 AM   #9
PianoMan5080
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 18
Default

Fantastic work gembez,
and thank you for sharing....
Is a great opportunity to see how you experienced guys use Reaper for classical music editing...
You, Art Evans and panphonic have helped me so much in the last days...
This is a great community for sure...
And as you suspect I'd be very interested in the crossfade auditioning macros you mention at the end of your video...
:-)
PianoMan5080 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 03:16 AM   #10
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

This works well
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 07:14 AM   #11
Nick Morris
Human being with feelings
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
Default

I like it. Pyramix is where I came from too. Not as elegant but useable for sure.
Nick Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 04:22 PM   #12
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

Very elaborate and rather elegant.

Of course this is assumes a lot of things, but if those conditions are met, it's quite wonderful, and certainly a good demo of why this would be great to have natively.

Gembez, you might want to write down exactly what those conditions are for folks who will use this.

AFAIK the tracks grouped, then duplicated. The duplicate tracks are cleared of items.

The reason you see tracks flashing in and out of existence with the edit action is because the tracks must be visible in order to copied from and pasted to. Am I right in assuming that ?

Gembez, it might be time that you and all your music-editing collegues write down the basic requirements of 3 & 4-point editing.

With requirements the devs can design something that works within the Reaper universe and perhaps come up with something far more useful that what everyone is used to.

Thus, it will pay off to also describe methods used so far, but only the ones you yourself have used.


I'll give it a try(always do). See what you think.

The Split View

A split view of either the same project or another project tab will be used to access different source and destination locations at the same time.

If the same project is displayed in two arrangement views(above one another if possible), controls in the track manager or elsewhere shall exist to designate tracks to be in the A or B view.

This could take the form of an extra column in the track manager. An "A" or a "B" would be shown.

Source and destination selection
There shall be a toolbar with a toolbar button that toggles the state of the views as being either the source or the destination. This prevents ambiguity as a symbol can be designed that quite simply points up or down for example. It could be colour-coded as well for quick recognition.

It may even be a good idea to colour-code part of the views themselves to illustrate which function they are carrying out at the moment. These visual indicators coudl be the selection boundaries/overlay/markers and of course the toolbar button itself. It should obstruct the editing process as little as possible but provide an easy to see way to know which view is which.
Playback
A tough one.

For simplicity's sake I suggest that only one playback control be used that works on ONE view.

The user chooses which view is played with a toggle control, also visible onscreen in some way. A colour-coded highlight eminating from the transport controls could work.

Surrounding the timecode readout of the transport would probably be the easiest to both implement and spot since the transport control are very rarely hidden.

This of course is nasty for people who want lightning access to either view, but those folks can simply make a macro if they want functions to play the Source view and so on. Thus actions need to be available that focus either the source or the destination view, or toggle between them.

Commands

The following commands need to be available, in a toolbar for starting out. Once the user knows which commands are available, shortcuts can be assigned.

"Set/clear IN" (same for OUT)

Why "Set/Clear" and not just "Set" ?
Three point editing requires only three points, the user needs to be able to clear those designations.

It works as a toggle depending on where the user is with his/her edit cursor. The Source IN/OUT and Destination IN/OUT designations will now be referred to as markers.

If the edit cursor is not on the marker in question the marker is set to the new position.

If the edit cursor is on the marker in question the marker is cleared, i.e. deleted.

That's it.

The consequence is that you have two functions, one for each marker type(IN/OUT) can be used to set or clear any of the markers. The view designation (source or destination) and view focus(clicked in to) determines makes four commands, two for source markers and two for destination markers, unnecessary.

Thus, to set an IN marker you click somewhere and "Set/clear IN".

To delete the IN marker, you click either on the IN marker and "Set/clear IN" twice, or click anywhere but the IN marker and "Set/clear IN" once.

I can think of two editing commands so far for 3/4-point editing.
3/4-point edit: Copy source and paste to destination (ripple)

3/4-point edit: Copy source and paste to destination (Insert)

That second command(the insert one) performs a SPLIT at the Destination IN marker and then an insert. Reaper can after all automatically create crossfades at splits, which has to be taken in to account, so it can't just be a simple paste I assume.
All these commands need to be available on that toolbar.
The Toolbar
Simply stuffing these functions in to the action list won't do. A toolbar introduces functions better and it enables the developers to design a simple GUI to this elaborate function set without having to create yet another new set of GUI functions, which the arrangement split view does require. No need to pile on.

And there only needs to be one toolbar displayed, preferable between the arrangment views I'd imagine.

Here once more is the list of commands, including the toggle command to engage or disengage the split view
  • Toggle Arrange Split view on/off (enables 3/4-point commands)

  • Assign selected tracks to view A

  • Assign selected tracks to view B

  • Focus on 3/4-point SOURCE view

  • Focus on 3/4-point DESTINATION view

  • Toggle focus between 3/4-point SOURCE and DESTINATION view

  • Set/clear IN

  • Set/clear IN

  • 3/4-point edit: Copy source and paste to destination (ripple)

  • 3/4-point edit: Copy source and paste to destination (Insert)
All in all, a simple set of features with a somewhat complex arrangement view split and a toolbar that may require the introduction of a new toolbar slot.
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 08-24-2011 at 04:28 PM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 04:57 PM   #13
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default


The split view has other applications as well.

If you use two projects, not just one, you can keep lots of complex sequences around in a second project from which you can then draw for use in your first project. Or use one project as a scratchpad. Thus we have a preview editor .

I suggest that the user be able to switch between project tabs in each view at will. A dropdown menu of some sort perhaps.

What does everyone think about all these (not new) ideas ?
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:24 PM   #14
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Gembez, you might want to write down exactly what those conditions are for folks who will use this.
Off the top of my head, only two conditions:

1. The Source track should be the first non-folder track in the project (same for the Destination track)

2. This only works when all of the tracks in the project are going to get edited together (like in a multi-track classical recording). It doesn't work if you have a project with drums, guitars, vocals, etc. and want to edit only the drum tracks this way.

Quote:
AFAIK the tracks grouped, then duplicated. The duplicate tracks are cleared of items.

The reason you see tracks flashing in and out of existence with the edit action is because the tracks must be visible in order to copied from and pasted to. Am I right in assuming that ?
That's correct. In the earlier versions of the macro and I had everything visible, but found that too distracting.

Quote:
Gembez, it might be time that you and all your music-editing collegues write down the basic requirements of 3 & 4-point editing.
Your descriptions are clear and thorough as always, I would just add the following:

As I've mentioned earlier, I come from Pyramix, so I'm trying to make Reaper behave the same way. I don't know much about the work flow in Sequoia, Sonic etc. But if we set Pyramix as our model, we won't need that many new features to have 3/4 point editing in Reaper. In Pyramix, this is mostly done via track grouping.


-> In Reaper, we're gonna need a more complete track grouping with the following options:

1. Full track grouping, i.e., any action (performed with mouse or keyboard) on one track/item is mirrored to the rest of the tracks/items in the group. Even if they are hidden.

2. The ability to tag/label a track as Source or Destination. If a grouped track is labeled, the rest of the tracks in the group will get the same label.

3. The option for dedicated Zoom, Horizontal/Vertical scroll and auto-view scroll for groups. This way, the Source timeline could be at, say, minute 40 while the destination timeline is at minute 5. This is how Pyramix deals with the 'Split View' issue. Similar to frames in HTML.

4. Dedicated timeline and Play/Edit cursors for groups would be welcome, but not necessary. The necessary thing is to have Reaper enable playback only on the track/group that is selected (when Source and Destination tags are used). So if I click in the Source track's timeline to audition a take, the Destination track is automatically disabled/muted.


-> Apart from the enhancements to track grouping there's only one more thing needed which is Gate-in and Gate-out markers. These markers work exactly the way Time Selection-Start and Time Selection-End work for copying (and pasting). Except that Time Selection-End (i.e. Gate-out) doesn't have to be set all the time. In the case that there's no Gate-out present, it simply means that the copy/paste point starts at Gate-in and ends at the end of the project.

Of course, there should be the option for dedicated Gates for each track group. Also, gates in Source tracks/groups always work as Copy points and in Destination tracks/groups as Paste points.

Last edited by gembez; 08-24-2011 at 10:45 PM.
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:02 PM   #15
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

Here's a shot of Pyramix's track grouping options:


[img]http://img856.**************/img856/5603/unledwsi.png[/img]
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 05:07 AM   #16
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez View Post
-> In Reaper, we're gonna need a more complete track grouping with the following options:

1. Full track grouping, i.e., any action (performed with mouse or keyboard) on one track/item is mirrored to the rest of the tracks/items in the group. Even if they are hidden.
This is referred to as edit groups, which Reaper has yet to aquire. The feature request for this has been in the issue tracker for over two years now and is only second to Area Selection in number of votes(335 vs 455 atm).

Vote for it here.



Quote:
2. The ability to tag/label a track as Source or Destination. If a grouped track is labeled, the rest of the tracks in the group will get the same label.
Looks to me like we'd be better off assigning that label to groups themselves. Protools has a small group list underneath its track list manager, which gives one quick access to groups. Reaper only has a group matrix which already provides too much detail to allow quick access to each and every one of the groups, becauise it's horizontal, and not a vertical list.

I'm assuming workflows now and am trying to incorporate the much better idea of using groups instead of manual track assignment.

All this assumes that only a split view is used to perform these kinds of 3/4-point editing operations. That would make a lot of things a lot easier. I'll get in to the track visibility further down.

Say you want to edit from another group of tracks on to your destination tracks. It's the editors responsibility to setup the correct number of tracks to get a clean edit, so X number of tracks in the source matches X number of tracks in the destination group.
Important stuff
Instead of having to manually assign tracks for view A and B as proposed above, groups can be assigned to the views in three ways.

First, with a switch in the group matrix, where a new checkbox is added. That checkbox has three states, as do some of the others in the group matrix. Clear, "A" or "B", which refers to the views.

Second, by setting the "A" or "B" flag by clicking in to the "View assignment" column proposed above, which also cycles between the same three states, i.e. clear, A and B. When one track of a group is set to any of these states, all members of a group follow.

The flexiblity here is that the manual assignement of tracks to the A or B view is still possible, even for group members if groups are disabled temporarily or permanently.

Third, each view has a small dropdown menu that shows the following:
  • Custom

    This refers to the manual custom setup if the user has chosen anything but a single group for the view.

  • All Groups

    This is provided, since all groups may not include all tracks, which is an additional layer of flexiblity.


  • All Tracks

    With ALL tracks selected the consequence of this is that users could copy or paste from the entire project or to the entire project, but selectively copy from or paste to select groups or tracks within the same project.

    Also, this enables assembly ala Virtual Katy in a manual way, which refers to keeping source materail in one area of the project and the destination in another and simply copy/pasting all tracks.


  • Group name with submenu to all single groups

    This allows the user to quickly switch groups in the A/B view. In fact, the user may never have to open the track manager or group matrix to pick the group to be assigned to any of the views. If mulitiple groups are to be selected this needs to be done in the track manager or group matrix.

  • Tracks , opening to a submenu to select all or any of the single tracks. Group behaviour applies of course.

  • Other project tabs (one entry per open project tab), which presents a submenu for itself and its groups in the very same way.

    This would look like this:
    • Other Project Tab Name /
    • / All tracks (alternately the Other Project Tab Name already selected all tracks)
    • / list of groups within that project
    • / track submenu

Damn this is getting complicated. Let's spell out the menu structure for that little dropdown menu one more time. The current project is referred to as PROJECT.
Code:
Custom
All Groups
All Tracks
Group -> group1 (submenu of groups)
         group2
         group3
         group4
         group5
Track -> track 1 (submenu of tracks)
         ...
         track x

Other Project Tab 1 -> All Groups        (picking the project entry already
                       Group -> group 1   picks all tracks)
                                ...
                                group x
                       Track -> track 1
                                ...
                                track y


...                    
Other Project Tab y ->
This is the first idea.


Not having to see all tracks to edit with them

This is the really tough one for the devs in my opinion. You now need ANOTHER entry in the group matrix for this to work.

It could be a dropdown as Pyramix does it, but then the entire matrix would need to be changed completly. I'll presume that the developers may wish to keep the structure intact unless there's very much a need to change it.

Thus, it could be just another checkbox with three states.

The matrix would indicate it with a box containing a letter. "A" for all. "S" for a single track, selected in the properties or "C" for custom track selection. This could be cycled with a simple click on the matrix entry, as it can already be done for the master, slave, none in the other group boxes.

The group properties window would show more detail and enable the user to make a custom selection of which tracks are to be visible when using the Split View.

"A" for all tracks is obvious. Need no further configuration.

"S" for single group member track defaults to first member of the group, but can be changed in the Group Properties window.

"C" for custom group member track selection defaults to the first track of the group and must be configured in a pop-up box of group members to check off, or something more elegant :P .

Quote:
3. The option for dedicated Zoom, Horizontal/Vertical scroll and auto-view scroll for groups. This way, the Source timeline could be at, say, minute 40 while the destination timeline is at minute 5. This is how Pyramix deals with the 'Split View' issue. Similar to frames in HTML.
That is already implied through the split view. Each view would have its own zoom and croll controls. Any zoom or scroll commands triggered with actions would apply to the focused view, which would thus need to be highlighted in some unobtrusive but visible way.


Quote:
4. Dedicated timeline and Play/Edit cursors for groups would be welcome, but not necessary. The necessary thing is to have Reaper enable playback only on the track/group that is selected (when Source and Destination tags are used). So if I click in the Source track's timeline to audition a take, the Destination track is automatically disabled/muted.
This is implied through use of the split view and the group/track/project dropdown menu on each of them.

Important rule I failed to state before
Any playback of a view will exclude any tracks not present in that view from being played. It would mute the other tracks, which may present a problem with more complex routing. Perhaps solo'ing the tracks in the view being played is preferred. There is potential for the editor to screw things up if he wishes to have a reverb effect present for example, and that effects has not been solo-safed(if solo'ing the current view is done instead of muting all others).

Muting all other tracks will shut down any routing between the tracks in the current view and the master. Only a direct connection to the master track through the master/parent switch would then work. Such is mute.


Quote:
-> Apart from the enhancements to track grouping there's only one more thing needed which is Gate-in and Gate-out markers. These markers work exactly the way Time Selection-Start and Time Selection-End work for copying (and pasting). Except that Time Selection-End (i.e. Gate-out) doesn't have to be set all the time. In the case that there's no Gate-out present, it simply means that the copy/paste point starts at Gate-in and ends at the end of the project.
The IN and OUT designations for each view are exactly that, but you may be implying that these designations/markers should be saved with the group present in the view itself. Thus if you change what the view contains to another group for example, and later recall that group again to another view, those IN and OUT designations/markers would be restored. Is this a correct assumption ?

This would imply that the user cannot put anything BUT single groups in to the views, though a history of previous view contents could be kept along with the IN and OUT designations/markers for that.


Quote:
Of course, there should be the option for dedicated Gates for each track group. Also, gates in Source tracks/groups always work as Copy points and in Destination tracks/groups as Paste points.
This is much less flexible than the proposed approach as we can change the destination or source attribute in the views themselves, but not in the groups.

-edit-
Looking at this mockup it may not be a good idea to have two transports and timecode displays. Will post a better mockup.


-updated the image to include the dropdown menu for each view and an area for the timeruler which I'm too busy to fill with goodies right now.
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 08-25-2011 at 09:44 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 09:46 AM   #17
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

One transport control, and an attempt to show the default toolbar and where the view content selectors could sit.

__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 08-25-2011 at 09:54 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #18
gembez
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post

The IN and OUT designations for each view are exactly that, but you may be implying that these designations/markers should be saved with the group present in the view itself. Thus if you change what the view contains to another group for example, and later recall that group again to another view, those IN and OUT designations/markers would be restored. Is this a correct assumption ?

This would imply that the user cannot put anything BUT single groups in to the views, though a history of previous view contents could be kept along with the IN and OUT designations/markers for that.
Not sure I'm following you here, could you elaborate?
gembez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 04:54 AM   #19
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

In Pyramix it seems that the Source and Destination attribute is chosen in its group list view. Everything is fairly static in this regard.



In Reaper, or rather in the proposal above, a view assignment (A or B) would be assigned in a dropdown list, as seen in the mockup.

In Pyramix you set whether a track group will behave as a source or destination for a 3/4-point editing mode.

In the proposal for Reaper that designation cannot be made because the user can switch the source and destination at will, which in the mockup is depicted with an orange downward arrow. Up, down, up, down and so on.

Thus the proposal calls for a custom window to pick what each view, A or B, will contain.

The contents of views A and/or B can contain any number of tracks, or any number of groups, or any number of tracks from another project tab, or any number of groups from another project tab. It is the sole purpose of this custom window to pick multiple entries from such a pool of groups or tracks.

If all you wish to work with in a single view, is a single group, or track, or all tracks, or all groups(can be different from all tracks), then the dropdown menu in each view would be used.


To clarify my statement you'd like elaborated, each entry chosen by the dropdown menu would also carry an IN and an OUT marker, which is what you called GATE IN and GATE OUT iirc.

This means that you can change what the view is showing from one group1 to another group2, and the IN and OUT markers of group1 will be saved.

Thus if you then change the view back to group1, the same IN and OUT markers that you had used before will reappear. The IN and OUT markers are saved for each group.

The question is, what happens to single tracks in the view. Should the IN and OUT be saved for them as well ? What about custom views that contain a number of tracks, or a number of groups ? Is that even necessary ?
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 11:42 AM   #20
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

What does everyone think then ? Should this request be put in to the issue tracker or at least be discussed further in the feature request forum ?
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 01:37 PM   #21
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

I've posted the complete idea in this thread in the feature request forum, where we can discuss it further and decide when we'd like to post it in the issue tracker:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=86853
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2012, 03:51 PM   #22
pelleke
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19
Default

While the idea of getting your great plans working natively will probably not be implemented by tomorrow, I am very happy to report that I used the macros above to edit my classical recording, they have proven to be of very much help. I had to change my workflow a bit though:

1. I normally put multiple sources vertically aligned (approximately) on multiple source tracks (groups) so that switching between takes is easier. I think though that support for this by altering the macros is not impossible. I may have some time to play around with this over the next weekend.

2. I am not sure how easy it will be to change edits together with the musician, but I think that is where 'Edit (insert)' will come in handy.

As I am using this stuff more, I am really getting motivated to get involved in the further development, and I may well put some efforts into playing around with ReaScript and the APIs in the near future to see what less limitations we have compared to the ReaConsole + SWS. This may be a good reason for me to start learning python as well.

Great work!
pelleke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 04:45 AM   #23
Jodles
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Default

gembez: Coming from Pyramix myself, this is awesome! Would you mind sharing those audition macros as well, as I have become addicted to those in Pyramix too.
Jodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 05:13 AM   #24
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

I made a simple ReaScript version of 3 point editing a while ago, based on what I remember Samplitude being like last time I used it.

It would be great if people with more experience with this kind of editing were interested in testing and offering suggestions for improving the actions

There's not really any set-up needed (apart from tagging your tracks), and no conditions apart from that source and destination tracks must all be next to each-other, i.e.

- anything you want
- source
- source
- anything you want
- dest
- dest
- anything you want

At the moment, it's not clever enough to deal with something like this (pretty sure it's not feasible to deal with without a new reascript paste function):

- dest
- source
- source
- dest

It should work in existing projects without messing anything up or requiring track hiding etc like some of the other versions I've seen.

Here's a slightly fumbly demo ... http://screencast.com/t/A8I0tmeQ

Last edited by timlloyd; 06-27-2012 at 05:25 AM.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 05:30 AM   #25
Jodles
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
Default

timlloyd: I'd love to try out your script on one of my current projects! It looks very neat, and I like how the setup is so simple. I'm new to Reaper, but I'm guessing it's easy to create keyboard shortcuts for those buttons (e.g. I'm used to [, and ] for edit in/out).
Jodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 06:12 AM   #26
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

If you don't have Python installed and enabled for ReaScript, then you'll have to spend a few minutes doing that before using these. There's some info on the ReaScript Wiki. I'm using them with OSX.6.8 with cPython3.2 fwiw. Once this is set up, using ReaScripts is really simple.

If you're using the default theme, this shouldn't apply, but one caveat to these scripts is that the markers are very specific colours, and if there are any other markers in the project with exactly those colours, they won't work. I can change this, but I felt it was a better solution than having to save edit points to a text file, and then reading them back in for each edit (that was how it worked originally) - perhaps the original way is better*. The colours are:

- dest in: (red) 0x1b40000
- source in: (white) 0x1ffffff
- source out: (white) 0x1fffffe

Here's a zip on the stash

Hopefully they all work (most complex scripts I've shared so far). But please don't use them on un-backed up projects/project files, just in case something odd happens If I've been bad and there are lots of issues, probably better to PM or move discussion to a new thread. Something I know needs to be sorted asap, is proper handling of errors when actions are run without source/dest tracks and/or missing i/o markers.

The scripts use the crossfade length from Preferences/Media Item Defaults for paste overlaps.

* actually thinking about it now, it's almost definitely better to save/load from a text file - why did I change it . No restriction on theme at all, and the runtime won't depend on how many markers are in a project ... I will change it back as a new version

EDIT - apologies to anyone who downloaded - please make sure you have the SWS extensions installed, and have the following preference OFF:

Preferences/Editing Behaviour/"If no items are selected, some split/trim/delete actions affect all items at the edit cursor"

I will try and make the scripts independent of this pref asap

Last edited by timlloyd; 06-29-2012 at 06:22 AM. Reason: added thoughts ... edit2 - replaced link
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:33 AM   #27
ivomarkovic
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
Default

Hi from Argentina!
Thanks for sharing this, i was llooking to something similar to Pyramix and this is really getting closer.
I'm having troubles importing the actions. It seems that the file "Source-Destination Editing.ReaperKeyMap" it isn't been recognized. When i downloaded it it becomes a .txt file, should it? anyways i changed the extension and still doesn't work, so i'm kind of stucked there.

Anyways, It's almost there but it would be nice to have different timelines!

thanks!
ivomarkovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:51 AM   #28
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivomarkovic View Post
I'm having troubles importing the actions. It seems that the file "Source-Destination Editing.ReaperKeyMap" it isn't been recognized. When i downloaded it it becomes a .txt file, should it? anyways i changed the extension and still doesn't work, so i'm kind of stucked there.
There isn't a keymap file, just a menu set file. Just assemble a toolbar from scratch, or:

- find the number of the toolbar you want to use (i.e. from 1-8)
- open the .ReaperMenu file in a text editor
- change the toolbar number in line 1 to the number you want
- save (the extension should be ".ReaperMenu")
- in reaper, open that toolbar in the menu/toolbar editor
- import ...

Kind of a pain. And only do the above after moving/copying the icons to Resource Path/Data/toolbar_icons.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 04:50 AM   #29
PianoMan5080
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 18
Default

To gembez: Any news on the crossfade auditioning macros development? I use your editing macros and I must say they're great! Wonderful work... For me no need to upgrade to Pyramix or Sequoia...
If I only could have a pre-auditioning of possible crossfades it would be perfect...
:-)
PianoMan5080 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 10:23 AM   #30
babag
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,227
Default

are there actions for the media explorer for copy/paste? i'd like to
do something like this, though simpler, to make a selection in the
explorer and paste to selected track at the cursor position.

thanks,
BabaG
babag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:38 PM   #31
pelleke
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19
Default

For all interested people: I've created new custom actions. Spent one week getting them actions to work and creating a demo video. I plan on spending more quality time on it after your comments!

Here are the new custom actions to play around with! See http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1100627

Last edited by pelleke; 01-08-2013 at 10:24 AM.
pelleke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 12:29 AM   #32
studer58
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 281
Default

Could using a method similar to this (imagine translating multi-track drum mics to multiple mics on a classical music ensemble) mean that you would have all of your takes layered on top of each other and you would be able to split and do crossfades between takes without necessarily requiring source-destination at all....as long as the take segments were of similar length ?

Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIF8vx-dJJI

Alternatively, would this be a better approach ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9n5AQetfI

I'm interested to hear your comments, critiques etc
studer58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 08:55 PM   #33
studer58
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 281
Default

ReaPack offers new hope for getting a streamlined set of commands up and running to emulate the Source-Desination/4 point editing of Pyramix, Sequoia/Samplitude, Sadie, Soundblade et al...but it's going to require someone who can write scripts and translate these DAW's capabilities to Reaper scripts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjoDu_32ljI

and
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177978
studer58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 05:55 AM   #34
fabi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez View Post
Hi all,

For those interested in Source-Destination editing with Reaper, I've attached the macros I've built for this purpose. If you'd like to change the workflow and/or add features feel free to edit the macros to your liking (and share them back with us).

Things you need to do:

1. Install the latest version of Reaper.

2. Install the latest version of SWS extensions.

3. Copy the "reaconsole_customcommands" file to Reaper's resource path folder (Options > Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder)

4. Import the provided actions into Reaper.

5. Watch the following video:

http://**************/clip/my-videos/819/vbq.mp4/

- Gembez
I can´t open the video file.
fabi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.