ReaInsert setup

[Mark Jones]

Ok I'm not expert (I have to admit), I don't know how MIDI technology works etc. Probably I'm going to look like a fool...
But I was making some experiments with ReaInsert, so I set it up to put in connection my DTX-Multi12 (drumpad) and master keyboard (Nektar LX49).
I don't have any MIDI port on the mixer (MG12XU), so I connected the drumpad with USB cable to the Pc and jack cables to the mixer.
So I thought, now playing my keyboard I will listen to the drums samples... not exactly. If I play the keys some strange sounds come from the drumpad (a piano, a synth very similar to a moog, etc.).
What the hell is going on?

No vst (except for ReaInsert) are on the track, so the sounds come from the pad.
Is it possible to play the drums samples through the keyboard or not?

[SonicAxiom]

no need to use ReaInsert - remove it. You have already chosen the Nektar as MIDI input device of the track, that's fine (all MIDI channels). You have to select the drumpad as the MIDI output destination in the track's sends menu (clicking on "sends/receives") so that MIDI data generated by the Nektar is forwarded to the drumpad by setting it as the track's MIDI hardware output device. Track has to be set to record armed and track monitoring to on to pass through MIDI data in real-time while you are playing. Alternatively, you can play back the MIDI data already recorded on the track and it should also produce a sound coming from the audio output of the drumpad, provided that the correct notes are played (note-wise mapping of the drum sounds inside the drumpad).

[Mark Jones]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

no need to use ReaInsert - remove it. You have already chosen the Nektar as MIDI input device of the track, that's fine (all MIDI channels). You have to select the drumpad as the MIDI output destination in the track's sends menu (clicking on "sends/receives") so that MIDI data generated by the Nektar is forwarded to the drumpad by setting it as the track's MIDI hardware output device. Track has to be set to record armed and track monitoring to on to pass through MIDI data in real-time while you are playing. Alternatively, you can play back the MIDI data already recorded on the track and it should also produce a sound coming from the audio output of the drumpad, provided that the correct notes are played (note-wise mapping of the drum sounds inside the drumpad).

It works but I can only play what I think is the GrandPiano from GM Voices.



This drumpad has good samples and it will be convenient for me to play that with keyboard (I'm not a drummer).
Anyway, it seems it can only play the drums samples through the analog output.

[SonicAxiom]

When you press keys on the Nektar with the setup I described are you hearing the drumpad device reacting to the keystrokes or are you hearing Nektar's sound?

You might need to set hardware MIDI output channel in the track's send menu explicitly to MIDI channel 10 and not to "sent to original channel" to access drum sounds.

[Mark Jones]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

When you press keys on the Nektar with the setup I described are you hearing the drumpad device reacting to the keystrokes or are you hearing Nektar's sound?

You might need to set hardware MIDI output channel in the track's send menu explicitly to MIDI channel 10 and not to "sent to original channel" to access drum sounds.

The sound is from drumpad, I'm sure of that.
I'll try to send on the ch 10. Thx.

[SonicAxiom]

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

The sound is from drumpad, I'm sure of that.
I'll try to send on the ch 10. Thx.

OK, so you already have a MIDI connection to the drumpad then. Is the GM sounds chart you posted for Nektar or drumpad?

Very often, MIDI channel 10 is used especially to trigger drum sounds. When you hit a key on the Nektar meant for triggering the drumpad, Nektar will most probably send MIDI on channel 1 and not channel 10. By setting the MIDI hardware output of the track to channel 10 you make sure that any MIDI data arriving from the Nektar is mapped to channel 10. Drumpad's manual states that you can configure wether it accepts incoming MIDI on channel 10. You might need to re-read this section of the manual.

To re-map incoming MIDI data to a desired MIDI channel on-the-fly and before the data even gets recorded as a MIDI item, you could put something like "JS: MIDI Channelizer" or the VST Piz midiChannelize (http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi) into the track's input fx.

[Mark Jones]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

OK, so you already have a MIDI connection to the drumpad then. Is the GM sounds chart you posted for Nektar or drumpad?

Very often, MIDI channel 10 is used especially to trigger drum sounds. When you hit a key on the Nektar meant for triggering the drumpad, Nektar will most probably send MIDI on channel 1 and not channel 10. By setting the MIDI hardware output of the track to channel 10 you make sure that any MIDI data arriving from the Nektar is mapped to channel 10. Drumpad's manual states that you can configure wether it accepts incoming MIDI on channel 10. You might need to re-read this section of the manual.

To re-map incoming MIDI data to a desired MIDI channel on-the-fly and before the data even gets recorded as a MIDI item, you could put something like "JS: MIDI Channelizer" or the VST Piz midiChannelize (http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi) into the track's input fx.

It is ch. 10!
Now I can hear the drums.
Thank you very very very much!!
You're right... I'm too lazy to read the manual, sorry.

Now my problem is solved, but my brother (the drummer) asked me if it was possible to record DTX12M directly through USB(MIDI) (to have a MIDI track instead of a wav track).
As far as I know this is not possible (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=174689).
Do you think it can be done in other way?

[SonicAxiom]

Glad it works, Mark

As long as the DTX12M is activated as a MIDI input/output device (which it is according to your screenshots) its MIDI data can be recorded without any problem. Just create another track, set its input to record MIDI -> DTX12M -> all channels and the data should get recorded. Configure this track's output in the same way you did with the track we discussed before to make MIDI data be routed back to the DTX12M, then save it as a track template for later use.

Sidenote: If you want to use the drumpad's trigger pads to record MIDI data (with track monitoring on), you'll have to change the DTX12M's LOCAL setting to OFF to avoid MIDI feedback (i.e. "double notes"). If you leave LOCAL on in this case, the drumpad would play back the sound as you hit a pad AND - a few ms later - play the same sound coming through the DAW as a monitored MIDI signal.

[Mark Jones]

Sorry, I did a stupid question.
The MIDI track is created by the Nektar.
I was asking if I could play the drumpad like a VST, but I don't think it's possible.
MIDI is only a protocol for messages; if I don't assign wav samples to MIDI notes, I won't never hear anything.
I always need to record in analog mode if I want to use the DTX12M samples.
I don't understand why we still have to use these relics of the past (MIDI) when new protocols are already available.

[SonicAxiom]

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

I was asking if I could play the drumpad like a VST, but I don't think it's possible.

It's an external hardware device, so it is not designed to work as a VST plugin (though, there actually exist some hardware devices that can be inserted like VST plugins). Unfortunately, a USB port on the back of a device doesn't always mean that the device can transfer digital audio through it.

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

I don't understand why we still have to use these relics of the past (MIDI) when new protocols are already available.

The limitation in your case lies in the limited audio connectivity features of the DTX12M (being from 2010). It only offers analog audio outputs. Maybe you should look for a more recent device that is capable of transfering audio via USB or firewire, keeping the signal in the digital domain. Or you might want to replace the external device per se by a VST instrument for even more convenience: everything happens inside the project and all features are automatable. Espacially as you are only using the internal sounds of the DTX12M and not the hardware part of it, an adequate VST may be a favorable replacement.

MIDI is still very common and also very useful for a no. of tasks in pro audio environments. I'm using MIDI to control Reaper with my digital mixing console and to sync transports of multiple computers and other devices. It's a very simple, cheap and reliable technique. Obviously, depending on the task or situation, you'd better choose something else and not opt for MIDI.

Once set up, I imagine that you can have some fun using the DTX12M.

[Mark Jones]

After upgrading the firmware and/or kits on drumpad, the trick doesn't work anymore.
No way to play drums through the keyboard.
Modern technology is really pathetic...