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Old 08-20-2013, 05:47 PM   #81
hamish
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Originally Posted by LugNut View Post

My other partition died...and i couldnt renumber my forum password..AND i couldnt get the site to resend me my pass^^...and so on...

Guido...er Lug
Damn, bad luck, my condolences on your partition. I was hoping it wasn't something so painful... and your punctuation gave you away ^^ (as well as your style with REAPER MIDI)
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:47 PM   #82
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Default Ignore Project Tempo

Hey,

I'm wondering if anyone knows a trick for recording Midi so that it's written as an item already set to 'ignore project tempo'.

On projects where the last thing you do is tempo map, using SWS actions to select all your midi and set it to 'ignore project tempo' and then go about mapping seems to lead to to fairly stable results. If however, you record Midi on an already tempo-mapped song, 'ignore project tempo' will destroy the original timing.

I thought maybe I could create a blank midi item, set it to ignore project tempo, and then overdub Midi into it. Unfortunately, this doesn't quite work.

There are some instructions on this thread that can work for after the Midi has been recorded, but at the moment it seems a bit lengthy a process to run on multiple takes. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=118061&page=3

I've voted for the FR mentioned earlier in this thread, as that would solve this more elegantly.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:04 PM   #83
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@benben i suppose you could enable alternate recording actions and then make a macro to stop recording and apply ingore project tempo to all recorded items (it should only affect the MIDI ones).

i still can't understand why MIDI and audio items can't both just follow the tempo map and timebase correctly. obviously that's the way it should be. instead, MIDI items have their own rules that are unpredictable and defy logic.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:31 PM   #84
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@benben i suppose you could enable alternate recording actions and then make a macro to stop recording and apply ingore project tempo to all recorded items (it should only affect the MIDI ones).
Just to clarify: setting a Midi item to ignore project tempo if the Midi was recorded after the project has been tempo mapped will destroy original timing. On the forum I linked to above, Breeder gives some instructions on how to avoid this, but it seems like it would be hard to turn into a macro:

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Mark tempo markers around said item and select it
Run SWS/BR: Delete tempo marker and preserve position and length of selected items (including MIDI events)
Run SWS/BR: Enable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items (use tempo at item's start)
Copy the item
Undo to before deleting tempo markers
Delete selected item
Paste your item in it's place
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:09 PM   #85
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Surely the Midi timebases should behave in exactly the same way as the audio timebases, ie.

- Beats (position, length, rate) - stretches the item when the tempo is changed and retains its position on the beat based grid

- Beats (position only) - item is not stretched by tempo adjustment and retains its position on the beat based grid (the snap offset dictates which part of the item retains its position)

- Time - The item's snap offset will occur at the same time regardless of tempo settings and will not be stretched by tempo adjustment

This is how midi items should behave, I was quite worried when I discovered that they don't

I think the original tempo thing should probably be implemented into the item properties menu for both midi and audio (and video) items
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:21 PM   #86
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Surely the Midi timebases should behave in exactly the same way as the audio timebases, ie.

This is how midi items should behave, I was quite worried when I discovered that they don't

I think the original tempo thing should probably be implemented into the item properties menu for both midi and audio (and video) items
i agree. biggest and most overlooked problem in reaper since i started using it. took me some months of investigation and frustration to even pinpoint the source of the problem and even then almost no one would chime in on it.

guess using midi, audio and tempo maps together is still considered "fringe" and not a critical thing to fix. go figure.

i gave up on tempo maps because of this. i just adjust the playrate envelope instead. it's actually better anyway because the tempo envelope can't do any curves and so it's hard to make it sound natural@.

@benben - i think it's going to be a hard workaround. what i would do is just render the project temporarily and record in a new project without a tempo map. hopefully you can just insert the recorded midi without problem. and until it's fixed i'd recommend using the playrate envelope while working. at the end you can convert it to a tempo map (i think?). you can just use tempo markers for time sig changes, since too many tempo shifts over the length of an item will screw things up. otherwise you probably need to chop your midi items so they start an end at tempo markers.

Last edited by foxAsteria; 07-15-2014 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:01 PM   #87
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Default ignoring tempo for midi items

People on the Reaper forum have been complaining about this for at least two years and nothing's been done yet on the devs side. Thanks to Breeders for is new SWS actions. After years of frustration, finally something helpful.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:57 PM   #88
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Default Where are all the people that would get mad

I came from cubase, and I don't recall ever having much issue with midi, and audio working together properly. Only reason I stopped using it was because it was difficult to import tempo maps into cubase (you couldn't just drag them in).

I'm curious if this is a big problem for 2 years, where are all the people that prefer the midi tempo changes messing all the audio up.

I wonder if they prefer it like this?
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:31 PM   #89
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i don't think many understand timebase or try to combine audio, midi and tempo maps yet. otherwise, i'm not sure why so few complain about this glaring problem. at least it's manageable now.

just not sure why it's not default for midi items. bit of a pain to remember to run that breeder action when you need to and if you forget it can be a huge hassle to fix. also have no idea in what situation the current behavior would be desirable or expected.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:10 PM   #90
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Did you see, in the Pre forum, that they kind of put their foot down on this? They also changed the items to be purely Beats(plr) behavior unless you check the box, or use SWS or whatever. No one said "woot."
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:04 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by FnA View Post
Did you see, in the Pre forum, that they kind of put their foot down on this? They also changed the items to be purely Beats(plr) behavior unless you check the box, or use SWS or whatever. No one said "woot."
i did notice that but i couldn't tell how it was beneficial. we still need to manually change the item properties for every midi item to respond to timebase changes.

i'm glad it's getting attention from the devs, but all we need is an option to enable the "ignore project tempo" setting for new midi items. so far i haven't heard an argument against that.

you can still wind up with a serious mess if you aren't constantly vigilant about it. happened to me again last week and i had to spend about 4 hours fixing hundreds of midi item positions by hand. i just don't see the point in the current behavior or how this option would be impossible to add.

point is: the "ignore project tempo" option fixes the problem. midi items and audio will both respond correctly and consistently to timebase. so why isn't it enabled by default for new MIDI items?
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:38 PM   #92
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i did notice that but i couldn't tell how it was beneficial.
No one did, at least not to the extent that was hoped for. Maybe it eliminates a portion of the confusion in having 3 behaviors, two of which didn't work right. I haven't studied the new behavior enough to comment on it. See, I use Beats(PLR) projects to start projects. (Personally speaking) Most of the MIDI should adapt to tempo there. I use time timebase tracks to record audio. I'd like to have Time or Beats(PO) timebase MIDI tracks/items that behave like corresponding timebase audio. Maybe it's too radical to change.

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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
i'm glad it's getting attention from the devs
I got the impression that it won't necessarily be getting any more. Maybe...

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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
but all we need is an option to enable the "ignore project tempo" setting for new midi items. so far i haven't heard an argument against that....

...

...point is: the "ignore project tempo" option fixes the problem. midi items and audio will both respond correctly and consistently to timebase. so why isn't it enabled by default for new MIDI items?
They would not respond correctly to Beats(PLR) if it was global. Position might, but length and rate wouldn't. Maybe the majority would accept a global option. I don't think I would enable it. On Time and Beats(PO) tracks only(or default in those project timebases) maybe.

I don't want to sound opposed to improvements. Maybe we can get some kind of options. Even if you got what you say above, I guess it wouldn't HURT me really. I think...

Also, I don't have a case ready to present at the moment, but I think there's problems even with the Ignore Tempo feature. Things that cross time sig changes and so on.
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:48 PM   #93
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I think there's problems even with the Ignore Tempo feature. Things that cross time sig changes and so on.
i think that might actually be one thing the fix fixed. seems to be working correctly with gradual tempo changes and tempo changes mid-item. if i set midi items to ignore project tempo i can change the project timebase and they respond just like audio for any timebase. i just don't like having to do it manually; i'm constantly creating new midi items and sometimes i forget. too much room for error.

i think before the change they were locked to beats (position only). so the change is definitely an improvement. not quite there yet though...

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Old 04-24-2015, 10:47 PM   #94
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Yeah, I've been doing kind of simple things lately. Not totally on top of current developments. I do get nutty with the MIDI sometimes.

"too much room for error." I can't argue with that. Well, Don't put the torch away just yet, I suppose.
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