Old 08-04-2011, 12:21 PM   #1
ScalerWave
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Default Geddy Lee - bass tone test

I've been working on getting a Geddy Lee tone for a cover of Red Barchetta and it's a bit harder than I thought it would be.

My Ibanez SR500 wasn't sounding right so I dusted off an old Fender J Bass and put new DiMarzio Area J pups (super quiet) and Rotosound steel strings on it.

Here is the latest experiment Version 6:

Peavey T-40 Bass with new DR High Beam strings
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943

Version 5
Peavey T-40 Bass with new DR High Beam Strings
http://www.box.net/shared/0mi77s5qullge72xsgnv

Fender J Bass MiM Version 4
http://www.box.net/shared/pv14pxk8l6kevamelarb

All input welcome...

Last edited by ScalerWave; 08-07-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:23 PM   #2
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Sounds darn good to me.... nice playing on your part as well.

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Old 08-04-2011, 12:45 PM   #3
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Sounds darn good to me.... nice playing on your part as well.

Jedi
Ditto that ^^^ ...

I don't have the best speakers to listen on at the moment but the 'bite' and 'roundness' seems to be there.

Cool stuff... HUGE Rush fan here...

D
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:19 PM   #4
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Dude !

How'd you get Geddy to sing on your demo ? :d
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:37 PM   #5
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too much overdrive. geddy's sounds like 'natural' overdrive in other words velocity sensitive. the harder he plays, the more fuzz is heard, and that fuzz tapers off on the decay of the instrument. that seems to be the problem with most digital overdrives, they don't have a velocity curve.

i know what its like to copy songs, its like building a model airplane or playing with model trains. been there.

but the best way to go i think is to go back to the seventies and get ready to chain smoke and do lots of drugs when theres time, crash out in front of the console. (just a wild guess lol)
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:57 PM   #6
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Okay, you've passed the first part of the test. Now let me hear you say: "Hello Toronto!" That's the one that separates the men from the boys, er, the Geddys from the...well, the non-Geddys.

But seriously, you've done a great job with that sound. Neil seems a little "off" today though.

[My opinion is based upon being a fan of the band and the song. I'm sure that a diehard bassophile might notice some nuances that I don't. I think it sounds pretty damn close.]
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:50 PM   #7
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Pretty damn close! I was just A/B ing with the original and I think it sounds great. It is really hard to tell if it is exact without the guitars interacting with the bass, but the little bits where the bass is a little more exposed in the original sound great.

You are the master of the lift, so it's expected that you get it pretty much perfect.

Nice! Looking forward to hearing the finished version.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:39 AM   #8
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Thanx for the input everyone

Ted, Geddy stopped over for lunch and we got talking about my demo

Kundalinguist, I'm not sure what happened to Neil ... ok ok they're midi for now. I have a drummer working on live tracks though.

Reapercurious, I do agree that it is a touch overdriven but that's just because Geddy didn't add enough drive to his setting heh heh

Kev, thanx man, I appreciate the in depth analysis. I wish I had a Wal to play or a nice Rick but eh... such is life. I almost bought a Geddy J Bass and still may get it... not sure. You're right about the mix with the guitar tracks added... no doubt there will be some tweakin to be done.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:06 AM   #9
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Here's a link to the original bass sound from the album to compare to...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3594604/Reap...0RB%20Bass.mp3


It seems like you are pretty damn close to me. It's probably more to do with your fingers and how he plays and where on the bass with his right hand than you would think at this point. It seems like you are compressing heavily like him also, I'm surprised at how much low end is taken out of the original bass line and it sounds awesome. I think you carved more mids out than his and maybe that would help. I doubt a different bass would help an awful ton honestly.

I think it's funny...sounds like Geddy hit a wrong note at 2:30/2:31. Too cool... Maybe I'll try a Geddy Lee tone later...this could be fun, BASS PLAYERS UNITE.

Last edited by camerondye; 08-05-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye View Post
Here's a link to the original bass sound from the album to compare to...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3594604/Reap...0RB%20Bass.mp3

I think it's funny...sounds like Geddy hit a wrong note at 2:30/2:31. Too cool... Maybe I'll try a Geddy Lee tone later...this could be fun, BASS PLAYERS UNITE.
Lots of fret buzz 5:20-5:33. Heard the tune a million times but never noticed that. Thanks for sharing that - making me realize to not sweat the small stuff...
(got a link for YYZ? )
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:18 PM   #11
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I have iso tracks to the whole Moving Pictures album in Mogg format.

If you're interested and I can upload it.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #12
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Man, once again I am overcome by gear lust....

Just bought a T-40 plain wood version in excellent condition... comes with molded case also in great condition.

Found it local too. I pick it up Saturday.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave View Post
I have iso tracks to the whole Moving Pictures album in Mogg format.

If you're interested and I can upload it.
Yes!
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jellotree View Post
Yes!
Here it is:

Moving Pictures: Isolated tracks

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hcvzn6




.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:57 PM   #15
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Thanks. Downloading now...while listening to Dam That River...like it...

EDIT Got it. Thanks mate! Gonna be analyzing this for weeks...have fun with the Peavey...

Last edited by jellotree; 08-05-2011 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:03 AM   #16
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I think Cameron has it spot on. The original is just a bit more compact. I guess in a busy song with a busy bass line you have got to think that the compactness lends to the clarity of the track.
Great tone SW however close it is to the original
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave View Post
Here it is:

Moving Pictures: Isolated tracks

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hcvzn6




.

Would like to get these tracks, but I had to download some kind of "codec" which installed unwanted toolbars, redirected my homepage, etc. Spent the last few minutes getting rid of it all. Is there a way to just download the files?

Bass tone sounds great. I agree with one comment that said it was a bit too distorted. But I think you're 99% there. I saw Rush when they had only two or three albums out. They were opening for Blue Oyster Cult. I thought Rush stole the show.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:12 PM   #18
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Just click where it says "Click here to Download from Sendspace" and the download window should open right up.

The files are in Mogg format but just load them into Reaper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer View Post
Would like to get these tracks, but I had to download some kind of "codec" which installed unwanted toolbars, redirected my homepage, etc. Spent the last few minutes getting rid of it all. Is there a way to just download the files?

Bass tone sounds great. I agree with one comment that said it was a bit too distorted. But I think you're 99% there. I saw Rush when they had only two or three albums out. They were opening for Blue Oyster Cult. I thought Rush stole the show.
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:40 PM   #19
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Quest for Tone - Update

I picked up the Peavey T-40 bass today, got it home and fixed it up. The bridge pickup was broken so I fixed that and put new DR HiBeam strings on it. The frets were tarnished so I shined them up and buffed the pick guard.

I tweaked the tone to get as close to a Rick 4003 sound as possible... lightened up on the overdrive and cranked the mids a bit...still going thru Gearbox.

http://www.box.net/shared/0mi77s5qullge72xsgnv
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:27 PM   #20
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I think you've made it really close to Geddy's current tone but not the one on MP. The T-40 seems to be closer, I'm surprised of that but it seems to have something closer to what you are going for. I think you also played it better on the T-40. Not sure if it's the bass or just luck but it seems a bit more energetic.

I just analyzed the Geddy Lee played line and his bass sound rolls off the highs starting out at right around 2.8khz and yours pretty much seems to have to whole highend ball of wax and maybe then some. Roll off the highs and see if that gets you better in the ballpark.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:53 PM   #21
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Yeah, I'm liking this T-40...strange to find someone local selling one. Too bad it wasn't the black model.

Ok, I rolled off the highs and tweaked a few other freqs. There is an airy quality to his tone that I have been wondering about... I added something this time to try and emulate that too.

See if you can hear what I'm talking about.

For this mix, I just played with the ISO tracks and muted Geddy's bass. This way you can gauge the mix of the tone better.

I really appreciate the extra ears man.

Version 6 - T-40 bass
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave View Post
Just click where it says "Click here to Download from Sendspace" and the download window should open right up.

The files are in Mogg format but just load them into Reaper.
Thanks! I got a different web page this time. Similar, but buttons in different places and a few other "re-arrangements." Found the one you mentioned.

I've used Mogg before in Reaper and, yeah, worked fine.

That tone you're getting is sounding mighty good!
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave View Post
Yeah, I'm liking this T-40...strange to find someone local selling one. Too bad it wasn't the black model.

Ok, I rolled off the highs and tweaked a few other freqs. There is an airy quality to his tone that I have been wondering about... I added something this time to try and emulate that too.

See if you can hear what I'm talking about.

For this mix, I just played with the ISO tracks and muted Geddy's bass. This way you can gauge the mix of the tone better.

I really appreciate the extra ears man.

Version 6 - T-40 bass
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943

Oh Yeah ! I really like that tone.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:51 PM   #24
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It's hard to tell how close it is to the original now because it's so loud in the mix, sad enough, but I'm guessing it's pretty close. Playing it well and like he did is a big part of it and you've done a good job on that too.
cam
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:37 PM   #25
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Damn good playing there Jim, and singing is superb as usual.

FWIW, I don't know the song and know very little of Geddy Lee, anyway you asked so I'll say my piece.

It's kinda hard to tell as the bass is loud on all tracks but I'd say I like the J bass best as a tone, and in isolation but the first one sounds much the best in the mix.

The other one sounded far too loud to tell, but it may well sound just as good in the mix at a lower level.

although I liked the J bass best I felt it was a bit too deep to achieve what I think you are aiming for so I'll go for the first track
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
It's kinda hard to tell as the bass is loud on all tracks but I'd say I like the J bass best as a tone, and in isolation but the first one sounds much the best in the mix.
You think it sounds like a better tone or more like the Geddy tone on my earlier post (#9)??? He's trying to match the sound Geddy Lee got on the album not necessarily the best tone on this one.

BTW - I was reading an article about an hour ago around the time Geddy put out his solo album and he said Tom Sawyer was on the Jazz but Red Barchetta was on the Ric...I thought the whole album was jazz bass (wrongly).
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye View Post
You think it sounds like a better tone or more like the Geddy tone on my earlier post (#9)??? He's trying to match the sound Geddy Lee got on the album not necessarily the best tone on this one.

BTW - I was reading an article about an hour ago around the time Geddy put out his solo album and he said Tom Sawyer was on the Jazz but Red Barchetta was on the Ric...I thought the whole album was jazz bass (wrongly).
Like i said, I don't know the song and am unfamiliar with Geddy Lee, so you have to take my comments with a large dose of salt.

My opinion was as stated, I thought it was important that the bass sat in the mix, and although I preferred the sound of the J bass I didn't think it sat so well in the mix.

I thought the first one sounded best in the mix, but that could all change if the levels changed.

Out of everything I heard I might try just tweaking the J bass. If he has a HPF on it I might try it a little higher with a wide curve and see how that sounds, but take no notice of me - I'm not even a bass player

It is said the bass is the hardest thing to get just right. I think it depends. I find acoustic guitar the hardest, but I play acoustic guitar a lot, so I would think that
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:58 PM   #28
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Tedwood - Thanks the input, Geddy just has this characteristic bass tone that sets it apart. Just the right amount of everything in it. Even with different basses, he gets similar sounding tones. The reason the bass track is louder is because I thought it would make it easy to analyze the tone as it sat in the mix. In version 6, all the parts are original isolated tracks from the studio recording except of course the bass track which I replaced. For this particular song I was going for Rickenbacker type of tone similar to what he used in the recording.

Cam - I could mix a version with the bass blended into the mix. Louder just worked better for me. I read something similar about the Rickenbacker in Red Barchetta. That's why I switched from using the Fender to the T-40. I'm still amazed at the quality workmanship in this bass...especially compared to the Fender. The T-40 is a Cadillac of an instrument... even weighs as much as one heh heh.

A lot of the fun in doing these collab projects is analyzing the song under a microscope.

TedR - thx dude

Mixer - glad you got the download problem solved.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
It is said the bass is the hardest thing to get just right. I think it depends. I find acoustic guitar the hardest, but I play acoustic guitar a lot, so I would think that
Interesting. Spending a lot of time with drums, I find the snare sound hardest to get just right. It can change the whole character of the song.

In reality, everything matters in a mix, I guess, and takes effort to get just right. That's why Rush sounds like Rush, and (insert name here) sounds like (insert same name here).

Except these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Kth...eature=related

Not sure what mixing principles are being applied here.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:56 AM   #30
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What Gearbox settings/preset are you using? Sounds great.
I think the T-40 is almost there, but needs to be low passed somewhat as has been previously mentioned. There;s something in the T-40 bottom end that seems better, but I can't exactly define it.
Peavey has had a bad rap for much of their stuff for years, but they've made quality stuff for years. I don't know if the trend to build product overseas will change that though.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:13 AM   #31
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nice job! My fav is the Fender J. A tad less overdrive will get it closer IMO if you must but I think it sounds great as is.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:32 AM   #32
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wow, cool tone. I agree it seems a bit too overdriven, but if it was lowered in the mix it might "fit" better.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:04 AM   #33
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Thanks fellas. Either of you have a Rick 4003 you could lend me?

Jellotree - I attached the pre set file that I used. I had to add .txt to the end so it would let me upload.
Attached Files
File Type: txt T-40 to Rickenbacker.l6t.txt (2.1 KB, 274 views)
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:51 PM   #34
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I guess you already considered this, but just in case:

Geddy's Rickenbacker 4001 had separate outs for each pickup, and Wikipedia says, in part: "The neck pick-up was sent to one amp and set for a clean, bass-heavy tone ... while the bridge pick-up was sent to the other amp ... with an exaggerated treble boost, and extra gain in the preamp..."

Later on, he split the mono output of other basses and still ran through two amp chains.

Geddy also plays kind of hard and wild, with fingers flying.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:53 AM   #35
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Hi. Sounds really good! Enjoyed your performance as well. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:10 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ScalerWave View Post

Jellotree - I attached the pre set file that I used. I had to add .txt to the end so it would let me upload.
Thanks Scaler. I took out the .txt, leaving it as a .l6t file, copied the Line 6 Tone into my Gearbox preset folder, but it doesn't recognize that patch - 'unsupported patch type'. Any ideas to get it recognized?
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #37
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Not sure why it didn't work. It seems to work both in POD Farm and Gearbox.

I could try mailing it to ya.

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jellotree View Post
Thanks Scaler. I took out the .txt, leaving it as a .l6t file, copied the Line 6 Tone into my Gearbox preset folder, but it doesn't recognize that patch - 'unsupported patch type'. Any ideas to get it recognized?
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:26 PM   #38
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One other observation. It sounds like you are using a pick. Geddy uses his fingers. Part of the distortion that Ged gets is from how he slaps down on the string. He got a lot of classic Ric sounds that way (Cygnus, etc)

That is an amazing sound you got from that T-40. I had a 4003 years ago with the Ric-O-Sound through 2 amps. It was amazing. Your playing is very good and Barchetta was the first Rush song I fell in love with in 5th grade.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:02 AM   #39
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Bass Tone Update:

Here's a live mix of "Lime Light" that we did... no vocals on this one. We had a guest vocalist from the audience that night but I figured I would make two separate mixes... one with and one without vocals. The tracks were recorded on a laptop and I later mixed them in Reaper.

https://www.box.com/s/955f815fcefa168353e4

The bass is a Squire J Bass I bought recently.

[IMG]http://img259.**************/img259/9076/21612jbass.jpg[/IMG]

Uploaded with **************

Last edited by ScalerWave; 05-06-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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