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Old 03-03-2014, 09:10 AM   #1
nickm
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Default Vintage, mellow/beefy snare sound... I can't haz

I've been stumped by this for years, and it hit me again just recently in a remix. I can't seem for the life of me to recreate this sound. Here's what I'm looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQ4reLS8Lo

Dat snare...

So the obvious thing is that they're slicing off a significant amount of high end from the entire kit. But it has a certain girth, beefiness to it that I just can't create with compression and EQ. I've tried to pitch down the snare track, I've tried tape emulation, nothing seems to make that sound. I tend to end up with a muffled pop or some other crap.

I'm starting to think it is wholly a recording step thing or even a drum kit thing, both of which I'm not terribly versed in. I just heard Real Estate get this sound on their live set on SiriusXM (which led to much shouting and cursing at the radio). Is it a big wide 14" snare? Is it detuned in some way? Are they recording under the snare? Close mic or distant mic? Is the drummer just playing it really lightly?

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm View Post
I've been stumped by this for years, and it hit me again just recently in a remix. I can't seem for the life of me to recreate this sound. Here's what I'm looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQ4reLS8Lo

Dat snare...

So the obvious thing is that they're slicing off a significant amount of high end from the entire kit. But it has a certain girth, beefiness to it that I just can't create with compression and EQ. I've tried to pitch down the snare track, I've tried tape emulation, nothing seems to make that sound. I tend to end up with a muffled pop or some other crap.

I'm starting to think it is wholly a recording step thing or even a drum kit thing, both of which I'm not terribly versed in. I just heard Real Estate get this sound on their live set on SiriusXM (which led to much shouting and cursing at the radio). Is it a big wide 14" snare? Is it detuned in some way? Are they recording under the snare? Close mic or distant mic? Is the drummer just playing it really lightly?

Any thoughts?
I don't hear much studio trickery in that sample. My mentor on the drums had a walnut-shell Gretch snare (14" x 6.5") snare that sounded a LOT like the one on the recording you posted. The cross-stick sounded AMAZING, but that's besides the point . . .

He had it tuned in such a way that it sounded a lot like the one on the recording. To me, it's more a matter of tuning and hitting the drums VERY lightly. It kinda sounds like he's hitting the snare with the butt end of a stick or is using large-diameter sticks.

Also, it could be the low-quality of the recording, but it SOUNDS like the drums were mixed in mono. So, there isn't a lot of stereo space happening there.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:31 PM   #3
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I don't hear much studio trickery in that sample. My mentor on the drums had a walnut-shell Gretch snare (14" x 6.5") snare that sounded a LOT like the one on the recording you posted. The cross-stick sounded AMAZING, but that's besides the point . . .

He had it tuned in such a way that it sounded a lot like the one on the recording. To me, it's more a matter of tuning and hitting the drums VERY lightly. It kinda sounds like he's hitting the snare with the butt end of a stick or is using large-diameter sticks.

Also, it could be the low-quality of the recording, but it SOUNDS like the drums were mixed in mono. So, there isn't a lot of stereo space happening there.
Cool, that's what I suspected -- not something I can do in post but have to do in the recording process. Just a big-ish deep-ish snare detuned until it sounds lovely.

Incidentally, listening to Beck's new album, same snare sound, maybe a shade brighter, but still beefy and mellow. LOVE.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:59 PM   #4
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Back in the day (some 30 years ago) we just laid a tea towel over the snare to get that kind of sound. Did the same on toms on occasion.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:47 AM   #5
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OP is in the USA. Those imported tea towels cost a fortune in the US.
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:33 AM   #6
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Ah one of my favourite drum sounds ever. The whole Virgin Suicides album is just brilliant.

As people have already said, it's all about having a nice old drum kit, tuned and dampened, and a decent drummer. A dry room and close mics will also help.

The real nightmare comes when you try to recreate this badboy using software.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:06 AM   #7
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OP is in the USA. Those imported tea towels cost a fortune in the US.
Full disclosure, I did have to google "tea towel"...

Great idea regardless.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:21 AM   #8
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Ah one of my favourite drum sounds ever. The whole Virgin Suicides album is just brilliant.
Totally. My second favorite Air album after "Moon Safari". So much groove.

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As people have already said, it's all about having a nice old drum kit, tuned and dampened, and a decent drummer. A dry room and close mics will also help.
Let's say I was an electronic musician who's only experience with drums and drummers is through helping them move their kits offstage before I play... And I mean that in the most loving way possible... So I know nothing. How would I build that kit for that sound for my studio?

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The real nightmare comes when you try to recreate this badboy using software.
Exactly my frustration, even using a fancier tool like Jamstix. This was about the closest I could come in software, and even here the snare is waaaaay too bright and crispy:

https://soundcloud.com/endlessblueba...t-endless-blue
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Last edited by nickm; 03-04-2014 at 07:25 AM. Reason: I can grammar.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:09 AM   #9
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Yep, old kit heavily dampened and a soft touch from the drummer.

If I had to try to get that sound just with software I'd look at Slate Digital and in particular their Steely Dan kit, you'd have to keep the velocities low and roll some high end off but it could get you in the ballpark. A tape sim to round off some transient would help too.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:29 AM   #10
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I use BFD drums, and the closest I've gotten was using an old kit (I forgotten which, one of the free kits that came with the software), then lowering the velocity and pitch of the drum. There is also a "damp" dial, so you can control some of that.

After that I would use various tape sims (usually Toneboosters Reelbus) to get closer to that sound.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:25 PM   #11
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How much is the bottom snare mic mixed in? Or is it all a top-snare mic? I'd be interested in knowing how it was mic'd, as I like this sound a lot, too.

FWIW, I agree that BFD does these sounds better than EZ - although Vintage Rock EZX is pretty much designed for this sound!
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm View Post
I've been stumped by this for years, and it hit me again just recently in a remix. I can't seem for the life of me to recreate this sound. Here's what I'm looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQ4reLS8Lo
I only listened to this on my computer speakers but from what I could tell there's nothing fancy about how that snare sounds.

There's been talk of laying a tea towel on the snare, heh heh, in my day we had the drummer just lay his billfold on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm View Post
Exactly my frustration, even using a fancier tool like Jamstix. This was about the closest I could come in software, and even here the snare is waaaaay too bright and crispy:

https://soundcloud.com/endlessblueba...t-endless-blue
That actually doesn't even sound close. Even the Big Mono snare would be a lot closer than that.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=132576

Last edited by Tod; 03-04-2014 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm View Post
I've been stumped by this for years, and it hit me again just recently in a remix. I can't seem for the life of me to recreate this sound. Here's what I'm looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQ4reLS8Lo

Dat snare...
It's not tape emulation or any "effect", although there is probably a lot of processing at work. I suspect we are hearing more than one point of recorded sound, here.

It's a snare with a deep shell, probably wood, played gently with some kind of damping, possibly something like a t-shirt stretched over the top of the snare head and/or some kind of cotton or gauze taped around the edges of the snare head.

I also suspect that we might be hearing only a bottom-head mic and/or room mic with a triggered sample in the mix. I hate to say it, but it might even be an old-school drum with rubber snares.

One thing you could you might try is running your snare track through a reverb or through a speaker recorded in the room, and then using a gate with a side-chain such that you only capture the ambient effect of the snare hit, without including any of the direct sound, if that make sense.

Alternately, just try wrapping the drum-stick in gauze or some such. The linked video sounds like we are getting the "puh" sound of the drum internals expanding without the "tap" of the stick-hit.

Yet another approach might be to try using the snare-hits to trigger a gate that opens a filtered white-noise track (an old 80's trick for "big snare"), and then omits the actual hit, either by muting the track or using a second delayed gate that only opens on the decay, to let the "snares" in, but not the drum-hit.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:31 AM   #14
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Never heard of rubber snares! Gut, yes. Rope, yes. Fascinating - tell us more?
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:43 PM   #15
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Sounds like what you get with Coles 4038 overhead..
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