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Old 11-24-2014, 11:22 AM   #1
samsome123
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Default crashes... songwriting drums?

is it a good starting point to figure out where the crashes will be?
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:28 AM   #2
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and the main thing are crashes, splash and china right?

is the splash used in rock also or its mainly for acoustic?
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:30 AM   #3
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also some comment on crashing the ride would be helpful
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #4
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also the larger the crash cymbal is, is the pitch going higher or lower?
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:51 AM   #5
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Yes, splashes are used in rock. A lot is down to personal preference - some prefer to get a wide range of sound from just a hat and a crash, and keep the kit as simple (and clean sounding) as possible. For programmed drums, it's easier to use a variety of cymbals.

I usually start with kick and snare. Establish the back beat early.

Then hats or ride. You won't always need both.

Closed hats on the off beat...
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
Open hat at the end of every other measure....
5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and

Or ride on every beat. Or ride bell for variety.

Now you have enough rhythm structure to flesh out the form of the song.

A crash at the beginning of the chorus. And the next verse. And the next chorus, and in the middle of that chorus....

As the song peaks, and you want more and more crashes for emphasis, you might want to think about substituting some of them with splash cymbals, and if you end up with too many splash cymbals, you might want to throw in the occasional Chinese instead.

Then toms and snare rolls.

Then comes the counting of the hands - make sure that no three drum events are occuring at once (excluding kick and pedal hat) because a drummer only has two arms. Remove any superfluous events, starting with hats.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:56 AM   #6
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Yes, splashes are used in rock. A lot is down to personal preference - some prefer to get a wide range of sound from just a hat and a crash, and keep the kit as simple (and clean sounding) as possible. For programmed drums, it's easier to use a variety of cymbals.

I usually start with kick and snare. Establish the back beat early.

Then hats or ride. You won't always need both.

Closed hats on the off beat...
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
Open hat at the end of every other measure....
5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and

Or ride on every beat. Or ride bell for variety.

Now you have enough rhythm structure to flesh out the form of the song.

A crash at the beginning of the chorus. And the first verse. And the next chorus, and in the middle of that chorus.

As the song peaks, and you want more and more crashes for emphasis, you might want to think about substituting some of them with splash cymbals, and if you end up with too many splash cymbals, you might want to throw in the occasional Chinese instead.

Then toms and snare rolls.

Then comes the counting of the hands - make sure that no three drum events are occuring at once (excluding kick and pedal hat) because a drummer only has two arms. Remove any superfluous events, starting with hats.

damn that seems like a proper way to do it!

thanks a lot for this advice...yes i noticed from a song i was just listening...as the song peaks u put more crashes....was i deaf all these years? i discovered it just today

and i also noticed that the larger the crash is, the lower its pitch...
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:10 PM   #7
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You're welcome. I've edited it a bit since you hit the quote button.

Once you have the formula down, try to avoid it.

For a lesson in variety in drumming, listen to pretty much anything produced by Stephen Street.
See if you can work out what cymbals are in play here (using your ears, not your eyes!):

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Old 11-24-2014, 12:16 PM   #8
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You're welcome. I've edited it a bit since you hit the quote button.

Once you have the formula down, try to avoid it.

For a lesson in variety in drumming, listen to pretty much anything produced by Stephen Street.
See if you can work out what cymbals are in play here (using your ears, not your eyes!):


seems to be just one crash on his kit...also one splash?

but i thought i was hearing china...maybe am confusing it with a splash
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:25 PM   #9
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also am wondering in terms of frequency which is higher, a splash or a china?

ok i think its the splash
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:29 PM   #10
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seems to be just one crash on his kit...also one splash?

but i thought i was hearing china...maybe am confusing it with a splash
I said, use your ears, not your eyes!

One more:

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Old 11-24-2014, 12:36 PM   #11
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also am wondering in terms of frequency which is higher, a splash or a china?

ok i think its the splash
The Chinese cymbal is lower pitched, and quite rude. It is also, fortunately, short. Use sparingly.
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I said, use your ears, not your eyes!

One more:

ok you have me here.....so whats that sound behind the snare in the intro (all over the song basically )?

i can't make what it is, its not a crash? its not a china? its not a splash?

ok its a china?

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Old 11-24-2014, 12:53 PM   #13
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ok you have me here.....so whats that sound behind the snare in the intro (all over the song basically )?
There's a big, filtered reverb on the snare.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:02 PM   #14
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There's a big, filtered reverb on the snare.
omg....i took that as a cymbal......dammit......

i need to get used to these sounds
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:46 PM   #15
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i need to get used to these sounds
Listen to some multitrack rock recordings.

Watch some live footage - NOT promo videos (they lie).
This guy's really good, but I don't like his band:



Best of all, go talk to some drummers. Just don't make friends - they'll follow you home and eat all your food.
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Old 11-24-2014, 02:51 PM   #16
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haha cheers
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:58 PM   #17
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i'll ask another question since u know drums well

when can't the hi hat be opened?
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:16 PM   #18
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is it a good starting point to figure out where the crashes will be?
It's conventional in rock/pop music to use cymbal crashes where the bass drum is also being kicked--often at the beginning of the measure in a new verse, chorus, bridge, or to punctuate certain passages in a song (e.g., Intro to "Eye of the Tiger," or "Space Truckin'").

The Chapter, "Sequencing Drum Parts" (http://books.google.com/books?id=ENP...ymbals&f=false) gives a pretty good guideline on conventional drumming.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:09 PM   #19
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i'll ask another question since u know drums well

when can't the hi hat be opened?
Um.... when it's glued shut?

I guess it can be opened any time that the drummer's not playing two kicks (the hi hat is opened with the foot), but it sounds good as part of a hat pattern, struck closed, then (briefly) open, and closed again, or (occasionally) pedaled.

I don't know drums particularly well. I don't play them.
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Old 11-25-2014, 01:23 AM   #20
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Um.... when it's glued shut?

I guess it can be opened any time that the drummer's not playing two kicks (the hi hat is opened with the foot), but it sounds good as part of a hat pattern, struck closed, then (briefly) open, and closed again, or (occasionally) pedaled.
There's a young Australian metal band called Ne Obliviscaris, drum playtrough of one of their songs on youtube features neat trick, drummer simulates hh open-close with his hands while going full speed on double kicks. I don't know drums either, but comments under the movie confirm this is a damn impressive thing. Metal drummers are cool.
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Old 11-25-2014, 04:47 AM   #21
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There's a young Australian metal band called Ne Obliviscaris, drum playtrough of one of their songs on youtube features neat trick, drummer simulates hh open-close with his hands while going full speed on double kicks. I don't know drums either, but comments under the movie confirm this is a damn impressive thing.
The guys drumming, generally, is incredible. It's a good band, too. I'm really pleased you posted this.

It just goes to show, there are no rules. I would never try to program something like this, though....

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Old 11-28-2014, 12:02 AM   #22
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The guys drumming, generally, is incredible. It's a good band, too. I'm really pleased you posted this.
Yup they're good, bought both of their albums, surprisingly cheap on google play.

It's good time to be a metalhead in general, some fantastic new bands and releases lately.
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