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Old 01-30-2015, 10:55 AM   #1
phonophunk
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Default Will reaper 5 have retina support?

I realize that probably only a small group of people own a retina mac but still, I would like to know if there are any plans to implement it?

The pixelated look is starting to get old
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:29 AM   #2
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I just love how you mac-heads are being duped into thinking retina is anything other than a minimum resolution spec from Apple.

There is nothing special about a Retina display..
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:19 PM   #3
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So called "retina" (or "HiDPI") and high resolution displays are only going to explode (in popularity), this year and beyond. Reasons:

- 4K is being pushed for TVs and computer monitors. Technically not "retina" resolution on those large displays, but very high resolution nonetheless. You can buy them now, and things will only get better going forward in 2015.

- Windows 10, to be released this year, should enable the HiDPI experience for PC users too (Windows 8.1 still isn't up to the task).

- Windows 10 tablets, with 7"+ screens, will be available. Safe to assume many will carry high resolution displays (like many tablets already do). Therefore: "retina" for PCs on small screens too. (btw, and we're talking full blown x86/x64 version of Windows, capable of running Reaper... no more ARM/Windows RT stuff)
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:27 PM   #4
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Sorry, but

Apples...Oranges..

Basically you are saying themes need to be (able to be built) in higher resolution.

While I agree, this implies scrapping the current themeing system altogether as bitmapped themeing will not work in this regard. We would have to go vector and that is a whole different ballgame.

IMO Mainstream 4K application is at best a year away, more likely two. At this point and again IMO Reaper devs have bigger fish to fry before the theme system is up for an overhaul.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:35 PM   #5
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... and another Apple hype victim ...
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
Basically you are saying themes need to be (able to be built) in higher resolution.
I would consider this (i.e. theme engine update for high-resolution support) to be a worthwhile pursuit for 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
While I agree, this implies scrapping the current themeing system altogether as bitmapped themeing will not work in this regard.
In web design, one way this works by having 2 (or more) sizes for bitmaps. Depending on the screen DPI. But I agree that there are better ways of doing things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
IMO Mainstream 4K application is at best a year away, more likely two.
4K is already mainstream for professional + productivity applications!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_projectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
At this point and again IMO Reaper devs have bigger fish to fry before the theme system is up for an overhaul.
Depends who you ask. But this is also a big fish, and needs to be fried... soon-ish
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:49 PM   #7
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Actually, while this is a personal wish/request, Evan is right about what's coming. And since this is a new reaper version I believe the question is legitimate!

I've emailed Justin about this in January of 2013 and he explained that it would happen at some point so why not now in this new version?
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:00 PM   #8
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4k is not mainstream in pro production houses, not even slightly, you expect houses that are struggling to even get full pay for the work they complete to upgrade hundreds of working displays haha
That is pure nonsense, 4k will be mainstream when it is the majority panel available from manufacturers, right now it still 1920x1080 panels at higher priority in manufacture.
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
4k is not mainstream in pro production houses, not even slightly...
I am not necessarily talking about 4k media production/content, although that is coming in pretty fast... there's even phones that record 4k video now.

What I really wanted to say: 4K monitors for productivity purposes, are now getting in the "pretty affordable" range. Think illustration, CAD, modelling, image processing.... and DAWs.

3840 X 2160 workspace on a 28" monitor... for less than $1000? Not too bad...
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:19 PM   #10
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I believe that Reaper is also scheduled to have "rectal" support.

I don't know how it will be used, but I understand it's a pain in the ass to implement.



Okay, That's enough reading. Put those retinas away and get back to work.
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:24 PM   #11
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video
has nothing
to do with music.
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
video
has nothing
to do with music.
lol!

none! whatsoever!


btw... here's Cubase on a 4k resolution. It seems it's not optimized for hi-res either, but look at the available workspace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lNERHBmM8Y

And here...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9540287-post35.html

case closed?

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Old 01-30-2015, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
video
has nothing
to do with music.
By Jose Feliciano?
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phonophunk View Post
I realize that probably only a small group of people own a retina mac but still, I would like to know if there are any plans to implement it?

The pixelated look is starting to get old
+1
plz add also a Ray Ban support!

-> retina LOL
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
lol!

none! whatsoever!


btw... here's Cubase on a 4k resolution. It seems it's not optimized for hi-res either, but look at the available workspace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lNERHBmM8Y

And here...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9540287-post35.html

case closed?
Wait, what ?
Workspace doesn't change with high DPI (retina)
The extra workspace on 4k resolution is much more useful in production of all media than High DPI is, so no idea how you think that argument is relevant in a Retina thread.

Extra workspace yes(what we have now) higher DPI couldnt care less !!
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:32 PM   #16
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Fl Studio already supports 4k in its 12th iteration. Because everything has been vectorized.
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:33 PM   #17
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Not sure why this is apparently so controversial, or why so many people are being dicks about it. It's a pretty straightforward question, about a feature that Justin has already flagged as in the pipeline. How does the OP using a common shorthand term make him a dupe or a hype victim?

I'm sure most people (yes even us poor blinkered OSX users) are well aware that "Retina" is just Apple's marketing term for a certain pixel-density threshold. And sure, the OP could have asked "will Reaper 5 have support for rendering GUI elements without visible scaling artefacts & pixelisation on a display with PPCM of around 86 or more", but "retina support" kind of says it all.

I recall this forum used to be a lot more pleasant.
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vocalnick View Post
I recall this forum used to be a lot more pleasant.
Indeed
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:08 PM   #19
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Unfortunately solid arguments ala my previous posts have gotten intermingled with non directly linked comments from some posters.

The reality is simply that Retina is unlikely to happen in V5 because we have seen not even a hint of high DPI support, however that may be possible to be achieved by a simple option that allows Retina themes, who knows.

However at this point the extra workspace is still more valuable over the Higher DPI for me personally at least.

As for the forum being more pleasant, get used to it, the more users Reaper gets, the less self congratulating the forum gets, luckily Cockos do not stem people having an opinion, even if it is stated in an unfriendly way, and good on Cockos for that.
You could always start your own forum and state in the rules that everybody has to agree, im sure you will get many many posters
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
However at this point the extra workspace is still more valuable over the Higher DPI for me personally at least.
Agreed for the most part - although I'd like to see a hybrid solution which allows additional workspace but lets you scale up UI elements so they're not quite so teeny tiny.

Quote:
As for the forum being more pleasant, get used to it, the more users Reaper gets, the less self congratulating the forum gets, luckily Cockos do not stem people having an opinion, even if it is stated in an unfriendly way, and good on Cockos for that.
Bit of a straw-man there mate - I'm not looking for a love-in, I just feel like if all somebody has to offer in response to a legitimate query is ridicule and derision, perhaps it's worth them rethinking their contribution.

To be honest, my thinking is not a million miles away from the "Read this or shut up" post linked in your sig.

Quote:
You could always start your own forum and state in the rules that everybody has to agree, im sure you will get many many posters
Nice to see we haven't all become less self-congratulatory
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:36 PM   #21
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well at some point, higher rez monitors will of course allow more on the screen but at smaller sizes...

I have dual 30" mon's at 2560 by 1600 right now and that is about as small as I can stand for reading type... and that is with my glasses on...

in the cubase vid, he says at the smallest track size he gets 77 to show but OMG they ARE really tiny...

at the smallest size for the reaper theme I use I can get over 65 at the min size right now... and with a diff theme even more....

So not to argue about new tech in displays, just to say I'm OK for the moment.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:50 PM   #22
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The quality of Reapers themeing engine will need a hell of a lot of work in the next few years if we are being perfectly honest.
Here is a complete opposite example
Reaper running on 1200x800 7" Win 8.1 tablet, runs everything great,total garbage to use.

Now while some might say WALTER has damaged themes and all kinds of blah, if you make all panels and menus WALTER, yes theming becomes more complicated, but it allows me in this case, to actually make everything work better under finger.
These same additions would allow the more workspace/still readable/usable themes for higher res screens.

You think that will happen fast ? No it wont because you have users that will moan like f**k if you had six months solid of WALTER updates lol
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
video
has nothing
to do with music.
yes
it
does
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:13 PM   #24
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Walter is up to it, there's no reason you can't make a theme with enormous bitmaps. The vector approach allows a single design to be scaled to many resolutions, which really just means the interface won't become outdated as screen resolutions increase.

In Reaper's case, there can be large layouts within themes, or entire themes designed for high resolution monitors. If you produced the theme elements as svg in the first place, you could just print them all to bitmap again at twice the size. Although rewriting the walter would be a big pain, it's not impossible.

The only things that would require an overhaul are some fonts that can't be resized currently, scrollbars and toolbar buttons, that sort of minor things might need some new coding to support properly.

Edit: oh and all the bits you can't currently walter might pose some problems

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Old 01-31-2015, 01:26 AM   #25
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Anyone who seriously thinks video has nothing to do with music in this day and age is delusional.

I am older than dirt and even I got this message ages ago.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
Fl Studio already supports 4k in its 12th iteration. Because everything has been vectorized.
FL IMO is more a fashion statement than anything else. It's main driver is not being a DAW, but being a bedroom producer 'I have the cracked copy' tool which needs to be at the forefront of what's hyped to stay relevant.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:09 AM   #27
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FL is quite capable in some areas. Moreso than Reaper.
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Old 01-31-2015, 03:58 AM   #28
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Wait, what ?
Workspace doesn't change with high DPI (retina)
Uhm.... when you double the resolution, and then double the size of the UI, then no, it doesn't. But we're not sticking to the rigid Mac paradigm... We can't. There's a storm coming.... of hi-res displays, at various sizes and various DPIs. So yes, workspace is going to be affected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
The extra workspace on 4k resolution is much more useful in production of all media than High DPI is...
Indeed. But 4k can also be High DPI, at typical PC monitor sizes and below.

Typical mainstream monitors:

22" 1080p display = 100DPI
27" 4k display = 163DPI

Now imagine 4k technology trickling down to smaller PC displays.... omg, it's full of DPIs!

Last edited by Evan; 01-31-2015 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
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FL is quite capable in some areas. Moreso than Reaper.
While true, I still feel it's not a 'serious' DAW with quite a different target audience.
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Old 01-31-2015, 06:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
While true, I still feel it's not a 'serious' DAW with quite a different target audience.
In the worlds of hip-hop, modern dance hall/reggae, reggaeton, dance, trance, house and all electronic variants FLStudio IS the DAW which seems pretty serious to me (and I'm talking about serious names with serious awards not bedroom producers).
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:01 AM   #31
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In the worlds of hip-hop, modern dance hall/reggae, reggaeton, dance, trance, house and all electronic variants
Which is my point really.. FL is a fairly expensive 4x4 sequencer IMO.


But back to the topic..

Most people sit 2/3 feet away from their screen. Here a 4K screen may just make sense. In a huge studio where the main screen is maybe 9-10 feet away it really makes much less sense.

The same goes for the living room where having a resolution higher than 1080p really only has merit if you sit at most 3 feet from the screen. Further away the extra resolution just is wasted due to the 'analog' limitations of your (and human's average) eyes. There's just no point.
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:22 AM   #32
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Which is my point really.. FL is a fairly expensive 4x4 sequencer IMO.
Except it can do much more than 4x4, since each pattern can be a different time signature. Hello easily done polyrhythms!
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
FL IMO is more a fashion statement than anything else.

I still feel it's not a 'serious' DAW
Why does an anonymous tech support guy get lambasted for saying similar about Reaper http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=154092 but that same thing mostly gets a pass when it's about another product?

Just asking.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:43 AM   #34
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This thread is laudable for nothing and laughable for everything.

Retina is a marketing word... sure. It's still what it is - HIGH RES display in the same screen space as comparable models, and it is GROWING MORE COMMON. These are irrefutable facts. Macs are becoming extremely popular for one, but also there are non-Mac products available with the same caliber of technology so it cannot be down to a Mac vs Windows debate.

Here's another fact though - a 16x16 image displayed on a 1k screen but scaled up x2 to be displayed on a 4k screen (occupying the same amount of physical space) looks the same. You don't need 2 images. If you want the image to look BETTER on the 4k screen, then you need 2 images.

And Lawrence hits the nail on the head. FL Studio is a perfectly capable DAW just as Reaper is just as Pro Tools is.

The world doesn't work like Monopoly. The best players don't get to own everything. There are competitors products, some people like them more than others, deal with it,
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:49 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
In the worlds of hip-hop, modern dance hall/reggae, reggaeton, dance, trance, house and all electronic variants FLStudio IS the DAW which seems pretty serious to me (and I'm talking about serious names with serious awards not bedroom producers).
Not to mention the long thread begging for FL's automation clips, and all the other great things FL does like grouping individual notes in it's midi editor and seeding just about any kind of midi control data on the fly.

I guess Reaper isn't a serious daw since it can't do any of that stuff.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:15 AM   #36
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Really, is that where we are now is it ?
First we have the "its apple hype" nonsense and now you are going to drag it down in to DAW wars.
Are you even going to add anything on topic to this thread Lawrence, we have had some silliness but your two last posts were designed to do nothing more than cross posted trolling !!
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:28 AM   #37
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Really, is that where we are now is it ?
First we have the "its apple hype" nonsense and now you are going to drag it down in to DAW wars.
Are you even going to add anything on topic to this thread Lawrence, we have had some silliness but your two last posts were designed to do nothing more than cross posted trolling !!
Lol. Yeah. You never do that.

If you want my opinion, it's the same as some others... "Retina" is just a marketing name but anytime you mention anything Apple the Apple haters show up and start calling anyone using Apple products 'sheep' and all that nonsense.

The OP's question was legitimate imo.

Quote:
and now you are going to drag it down in to DAW wars.
I didn't start the daw wars, the guy I responded to saying FL was not a serious product did. Maybe you should direct that to him?

On topic, I personally couldn't care less about Retina or 4k, I don't plan to be using either one any time soon, mileage does obviously vary on that.

Last edited by Lawrence; 01-31-2015 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:58 AM   #38
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Meh meh you do that, please post somewhere i moan about Apple or DAW wars or indeedhave cross posted, go on, i know you love scouring the forum.

And the "he did it so i did it" defense, really, you are going to be that childish ?
I think you should go back to the passive aggressive stuff.
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:12 AM   #39
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I think you should go back to the passive aggressive stuff.
Lol.

Dude, you're the bi-polar guy here, not me. One minute you're negative nancy ("They'll never do it. haha haha") and the next minute you're super helpful guy who never does anything wrong and any time you disagree with someone it's always them, never you.

Make up your mind already.

Anyway, nothing to argue about. I actually agree with much of what you say here.
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:27 AM   #40
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OK thanks for that insight
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