Old 09-06-2014, 02:00 PM   #1
narxistdan
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Default Input monitoring bug or operator error

Hi All,

I made the switch to Reaper several months back from Pro Tools and Ableton and it's been worth the learning curve. I really like it a lot and have found many useful answers here as I've been learning my way around.

Recently, I've come across what seems like an oddity and I hope someone can help point me in the right direction. In the record mode "Auto Punch Selected Items," no matter what record monitoring mode I have selected, I'm hearing the recorded track play back when I start a new take. I hear both the existing audio on the track as well as input. This is only when I'm not actually using the auto punch (no item is selected) and am simply doing takes.

I'd love to be able to leave it in "Auto Punch Selected Items" so that I can set up an auto punch by simply selecting an item without having to switch modes, and I don't understand why it plays back the track when it's letting me record a full take.

I'm on 4.62 on windows 8 and incremental updates are not my preference given that my studio computer doesn't go online. I think I will try that first, but I doubt it'll affect this. Any ideas or input is appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:24 PM   #2
narxistdan
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Hmmm... I'm actually even running into a related issue when not in auto punch mode. I want to be able to play back the track, not record, but hear input rather than what's on the track, for practicing or working out a part. I would expect "Record Monitoring: ON" to do this but I'm hearing both playback and input in that mode. Is this normal or is something behaving incorrectly?

There are 3 track monitoring modes, I assume they should work like they do in other DAWs or tape machines:
OFF (always plays recorded track)
AUTO (plays track back unless it's recording, when it monitors input)
ON (always monitors input)

Anyone willing to take the time to tell a Reaper newbie what he's missing here?
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:11 AM   #3
Jeffsounds
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Not sure if this helps, but...

From section 3.16 Non-Destructive Punch Recording of the Reaper manual...

Note: You can enable the option Monitor track media when recording. If you do this when punching in,
say, a guitar or vocals, regular Monitor Input will cause you to hear both the existing and the new material
right up to the punch, then only the new material during the punch. Monitor Input (tape auto style) will
monitor only the existing materials up to the punch, then only the new material.
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:54 AM   #4
narxistdan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffsounds View Post
Not sure if this helps, but...

From section 3.16 Non-Destructive Punch Recording of the Reaper manual...

Note: You can enable the option Monitor track media when recording. If you do this when punching in,
say, a guitar or vocals, regular Monitor Input will cause you to hear both the existing and the new material
right up to the punch, then only the new material during the punch. Monitor Input (tape auto style) will
monitor only the existing materials up to the punch, then only the new material.
Thanks for the response. I realized after more searching this is a longstanding and known issue that apparently hasn't been worth fixing for at least five years: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=42115

Pretty darned strange to me that Reaper wouldn't have a "standard" input monitoring mode, and it's hard to imagine why anyone would ever want to hear both playback and input at the same time. I'm all for having weird options like that -- flexibility is what makes Reaper great, but leaving out the ability to simply monitor input seems like a pretty big oversight.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:30 AM   #5
witti
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On playback reaper plays all unmuted items.

So set your tracks to

-monitor input on
-monitor track media off
-record disable (monitor only) on
-input left (or whatever) on


and now the trick is to press RECORD instead of play (if you don't want to hear the tracks media while playing back).
You have of course to watch out if not other tracks are recording accidentally.

Last edited by witti; 10-05-2014 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 10-05-2014, 03:29 AM   #6
Tim Ragnur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narxistdan View Post
Hi All,

In the record mode "Auto Punch Selected Items," no matter what record monitoring mode I have selected, I'm hearing the recorded track play back when I start a new take. I hear both the existing audio on the track as well as input. This is only when I'm not actually using the auto punch (no item is selected) and am simply doing takes. !
If I'm getting this right, you are recording in the auto punch selected items mode. The way this works is that you'll hear both the allready recorded track and input - until punch in, which will then mute the existing track. This is initiated by the selected items but since you haven't selected any, it won't punch in!

So in this case just use normal record mode.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:59 PM   #7
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Thanks for the thoughts but unfortunately I think I didn't do a good job of explaining the issue because I didn't really understand what was going on when I posted it. The problem is that input monitoring mode monitors both input and playback. There is no mode where you can monitor input and input only without some kind of workaround like muting the regions or the one suggested here by witti.

As flowheimer is explaining much better than I have in the thread I linked to above, this is a big and surprising oversight for people coming from tape machines and other DAWs. There's a feature request here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1276

It's not exactly how I would suggest implementing it but it would at least create an input only monitoring mode. I'm not super optimistic that it'll be implemented given how old it is, but if this is bugging anyone else, go vote!

Reaper crushes every other DAW I've used in so many ways (and I've used a bunch) but it's stuff like this and the wonkiness of ReaInsert that are keeping it from becoming THE ubiquitous DAW in bigger studios. I can see that it doesn't seem like a big deal for folks who aren't used to the workflow allowed by having a real Input Monitoring mode, but for me it's almost a dealbreaker for using Reaper for tracking. Literally every other recording medium I've used allows this; tape machines, RADAR, Pro Tools, Logic, etc... etc...
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:33 PM   #8
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If you select Record: Disable (Input Monitor Only)

You should get the behavior you are looking for

The tricky strange thing is you have to record not play for this to work

Since record will be disabled you'll just hear the input and nothing will get recorded over

It's an extra step but I'm used to it.

Hope this is what your looking for

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Last edited by DogBBQ; 10-06-2014 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:36 AM   #9
Tim Ragnur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narxistdan View Post
Thanks for the thoughts but unfortunately I think I didn't do a good job of explaining the issue because I didn't really understand what was going on when I posted it. The problem is that input monitoring mode monitors both input and playback. There is no mode where you can monitor input and input only without some kind of workaround like muting the regions or the one suggested here by witti.

As flowheimer is explaining much better than I have in the thread I linked to above, this is a big and surprising oversight for people coming from tape machines and other DAWs. There's a feature request here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1276

It's not exactly how I would suggest implementing it but it would at least create an input only monitoring mode. I'm not super optimistic that it'll be implemented given how old it is, but if this is bugging anyone else, go vote!

Reaper crushes every other DAW I've used in so many ways (and I've used a bunch) but it's stuff like this and the wonkiness of ReaInsert that are keeping it from becoming THE ubiquitous DAW in bigger studios. I can see that it doesn't seem like a big deal for folks who aren't used to the workflow allowed by having a real Input Monitoring mode, but for me it's almost a dealbreaker for using Reaper for tracking. Literally every other recording medium I've used allows this; tape machines, RADAR, Pro Tools, Logic, etc... etc...
I read the other thread and totally agree about the input monitor flaws. Also I really don't like it beeing arm button dependant. E.g. when working with talkback, that you don't want to record.
Couldn't find a feature request, so thanks for linking! This one really covers it. Voted!
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:03 AM   #10
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Well actually… this one by flowheimer is better:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2004
But it was closed, for beeing a duplicate (you can still vote..). It's more precise about monitoring ONLY the input. The other FR just proposes a "monitor input (always)" state, without taking this into consideration.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:47 PM   #11
narxistdan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBBQ View Post
If you select Record: Disable (Input Monitor Only)

You should get the behavior you are looking for

The tricky strange thing is you have to record not play for this to work

Since record will be disabled you'll just hear the input and nothing will get recorded over

It's an extra step but I'm used to it.

Hope this is what your looking for

Thanks for taking the time to post a screenshot. It's totally a viable workaround but doesn't really re-create the behavior I'm looking for. This way you still need to switch between modes to go between rehearsing and recording. I want to be able to press play and rehearse along with the track, get the part together, and then press record to record it. This is easily accomplished with any other platform but requires additional steps in Reaper for some reason.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ragnur View Post
Well actually… this one by flowheimer is better:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2004
But it was closed, for beeing a duplicate (you can still vote..). It's more precise about monitoring ONLY the input. The other FR just proposes a "monitor input (always)" state, without taking this into consideration.
Totally. I thought the same thing reading through that thread. The fact that the mods thought it was a duplicate makes it pretty clear that they don't really understand the actual issue, so I'm not too optimistic it'll get updated anytime soon.
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:20 AM   #13
Tim Ragnur
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I think it's just standard procedure to clean up the list of bugs/FR.
In semiquavers FR theres a link to the one by flowheimer, posted by ollie. Which indicates they are be aware of both FRs.

No it doesn't seem like it has big priority, but at least it's on the elevated FR list...
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narxistdan View Post
Thanks for taking the time to post a screenshot. It's totally a viable workaround but doesn't really re-create the behavior I'm looking for. This way you still need to switch between modes to go between rehearsing and recording. I want to be able to press play and rehearse along with the track, get the part together, and then press record to record it. This is easily accomplished with any other platform but requires additional steps in Reaper for some reason.
I've just grown to deal with it

I'm with you input monitor only should be just that!

Another option i have used is to select all items double click track control panel and mute the items i have set the option to have the mute/unmute button permanent on the items so hitting anyone will mute them all

I guess adding a tool button or some ofthe F keys to swap between the two record modes could also speed things up
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Old 10-10-2014, 02:42 PM   #15
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Just Chiming in again

So after my Last Post I thought I'd assign the action "Track Record Input" TO F1 Easy

Then I went to assign the Action "Track Record Disable" to F2 to Find out that action doesn't exist!!!

Really? Almost every Function of Reaper is in the action List but this???

I don't think anyone wants this to be a simple option!!!

SO I assigned "Items Toggle Mute" to the F1 Key

Last edited by DogBBQ; 10-10-2014 at 03:14 PM.
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