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Old 05-17-2013, 12:45 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
It's a symbol to express "add it together". It's meant for the devs and those with a general knowledge of how the logarithimic scale works, i.e. adding and subtracting dB values.

Generalizing this is no big deal. You just need add stuff about reference values to the description.

[...]

You're welcome to write a request for general parameter offset control. I think it has a small chance of being implemented if added to this existing DCA request. I am up for discussing it though.
Cool. Indeed, I was thinking of adding stuff such reference values more explicitly, and perhaps distinguishing between where a control (voltage) signal is used, and where it is specifically applied to a log scale in dB.
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Originally Posted by semiquaver View Post
I wonder how much infrastucture for Banned's request might already be there in the existing parameter modulation.

And I think that it is a very very interesting request for electronic music

for implementation reasons though it may well make more sense as a separate request as Airon suggests...
Yeah, the parameter linking stuff already in place is excellent, and although it needs some tricks to work across tracks, it already comes very close to what I have in mind.

I do realize that track volume / mixer faders are a (very) special case, which is of primary importance to many desirable workflows. And it's also evident that setting up a large number of individual links fails as a fast and intuitive workflow for many people who want DCA groups badly. I'm just hoping that we don't ignore the possibility that a marginal amount of added effort (relatively speaking) may result in a vast increase of interesting applications when the same ideas are applied more generally. But perhaps, as Airon suggests, the added amount of work may not be marginal. Which is what makes trying to generalize a flowchart such as the above interesting, imho: it can make clear which assumptions are valid for the specific case, but need to be relaxed for the more general case, thus showing the increase in conceptual complexity that we would face.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:01 AM   #122
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Just bumping this.
You can vote in airon's first post here, in his signature under DCA's (or any of his posts).
If you've ever needed automation passed from master to slave, this would make your life/workflow easier.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:28 AM   #123
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Bumping this request.

Remember to vote for this and voice your concerns about the request and its value for your workflow here in this discussion thread.

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2817
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:02 AM   #124
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Well I see it this way, if you have never seen a console and mix in the box you would not know what VCA (DCA) groups are about.

Bottom line this is an ancient feature of consoles and we do not have the limits in software as we do in Hardware so there should be no excuses for anyone or any DAW. All Daw's should of added this feature to their mixers ages ago.

Protools has it, Magix Seq

It's time to move on or move back to a decades old feature in mixing.

Voted
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:18 AM   #125
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Thank you.

Keep the votes and stories coming.
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:32 AM   #126
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The two month bump. We're all waiting for this.

DCA control, coalescing DCA master volume automation in to slave volume automation, easy setup, fun actions to drill in to DCA groups(All DCAs->Music master DCA->guitar DCA and we're only showing guitar tracks on the MCP,TCP or control surface).

Hey it's like a fun group trim too, though per-track trim modes would be great too.

Vote for it ladies and gentlemen. The DCA link is below.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:57 AM   #127
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As I said before do not reinvent the wheel.

You already know which Daw's have the VCA/DCA groups and automation

Time to look at how they are done in those Daw's

The bottom line is Magix Sequoia. The way they added VCA groups to Sequoia and the addition of the ghost fader cap moving, so you can see where you were before, is the right way to do VCA groups in a software Daw
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:09 AM   #128
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I too think that those ghost fader caps, which indicate the resulting volume of the track are a great idea.
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Old 06-20-2014, 02:39 PM   #129
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Far from an expert on mixing, but it's pretty obvious how useful this is to even a novice like me. And like others have said this doesn't seem like it'd be something that Reaper isn't capable of doing. Hell, I can't believe that it isn't an option already considering what this DAW is capable of.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:03 AM   #130
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If I was a Dev, I would be so excited to implement this it would be the next feature for sure. It is so useful!
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:59 PM   #131
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What do you think about the idea of how to set these up :

You basically define DCA masters first in the track manager (or in the track context menus because it's just a switch) and go from there. In the background I imagine this creates a send for volume data for every slave track, so it'll take a bit of performance just like an audio send might.




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Old 06-22-2014, 06:15 PM   #132
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Airon, your ideas kick ass. Have they ever implemented any of these rich proposals you make. I see years go by and don't know one of your many exceptional ideas they have actually done. Did I know miss something?
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:46 AM   #133
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Quite a few things got implemented.

The project bay is one of them, which grew in usefullness over time. A decent take on the subject, and it did fall a little short of what I was expecting but it's not about one user after all.

The routing matrix finally did get a row/column highlighting indicator, though a lot of the stuff the request asked for wasn't implemented at all. The highlighted track names, the colours and the modifier+drag to limit colum AND/OR row setting of patch points to makes patch point lines.

All the video stuff got done, which took a few years. The performance and flexibility makes it quite usable. The area selection request had a little influence on things, though it may be, the devs not being full-time editors have yet to see the benefits of taking it further.

The scrub is mostly my fault when I asked Justin for it back when he roamed the IRC a little more. That still needs a little tweak IMHO. Justin was kind enough to at least create those "Write to ...." automation actions when requested.


So yeah, quite a bit of stuff got done, and a lot of it is contributions from all kinds of folks. Often I just process ideas from forum members and compile them to a request that gets iterated on and discussed until the devs have the time and/or interest to implement them.


There are a couple of corners they need to write themselves out of of course, such as the lame volume envelope scale and envelope checkbox time waste. Slowly but surely.


Perhaps DCAs are an architectural change in a sense that you're sending volume data instead of audio.

We'll have to see how you handle it, gentlemen.
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Last edited by airon; 06-23-2014 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:56 PM   #134
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In a stunning turn of events,
Reaper is now getting VCA(/DCA) functionality for version 5 of the program.
For those interested in testing (you can install a separate portable install without disturbing your current setup) head over to the Pre-Release forum section and try it out.

To quote Justin, one of the developers,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Once we get all of the signal processing side working as we like, we'll look at the UI (there are a lot of good ideas in this thread, re: ghost fader caps, metering, etc), but I want to get the audio side working right before we experiment with the UI.
Don't be afraid, just head on over and give it a try. Report back any problems you have in the current pre-release thread for the version you're using. At the time of writing that is version 5.0pre5c .
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:08 PM   #135
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We're at v5.0 pre-release 32.

VCAs are in. Some notes for the curious :
  • VCA functionality is controlled in the Group Matrix

  • Set a VCA Master by clicking on the patch point connecting the relevant track on the left, with the VCA column of your chosen group,
    until a small M character appears in the patch point box
    .

  • Set a VCA Slave by clicking on the patch point connecting the relevant track on the left, with the VCA column of your chosen group,
    until a small S character appears in the patch point box.

  • You can click and drag to affect multiple patch points with one click.

  • Tracks can be VCA masters any group

  • Tracks can be VCA slaves in multiple groups

  • VCA Masters cannot influence other VCA Masters

    This, VCAs do not stack as they do in Protools. It's a limitation for all your film/tv mixing folks out there(like me), but that's the deal we have right now. VCAs work well however.
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Old 05-21-2015, 07:59 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
[*]VCA functionality is controlled in the Group Matrix
Alternatively, you can also control all of the VCA functionality (without ever seeing the Group Matrix window) by using the 'Track grouping parameters' window (option in context menu when right-clicking selected track(s), or simply press SHIFT+G).
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:27 AM   #137
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Ok ladies and gents. We have our Trim Volume Envelope in the new v5.20 of Reaper.
We now have what could be called an automation trim mode for the volume envelope.

The actions are in a lose order of importance:
  • Track: Swap volume envelope and trim envelope
  • Track: Apply trim envelope to volume envelope, clear trim envelope
  • Track: Apply volume envelope to trim envelope, clear volume envelope
  • Track: Toggle track trim envelope visible


The slight downside to this approach needs mentioning though. It is the lack of a visual indicator on the UI.

What does happen is
  1. Your fader on the UI or control surface changes position (if trim and volume envelope are dissimilar)
  2. If one of the envelopes was visible it is swapped out for the other. The trim envelope is black, the volume envelope is green by default.


The basic principle is:
All GUI and control faders/knobs always apply to the track volume envelope
So, to do relative touch-ups on your volume rides, just swap the envelopes. Apply them if you wish.

You can do relative changes to the entire envelope with this little procedure, which when practiced can be done in less than a second:
  1. Set Latch mode
  2. Swap volume/trim envelope
  3. hit play, ride fader, find value
  4. Do "Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to to entire envelope"
  5. Stop
  6. Swap trim/volume
  7. Do "Track: Apply trim envelope to volume envelope, clear trim envelope"

The first two and the last four can be one custom action each.
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Old 05-20-2016, 09:32 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Ok ladies and gents. We have our Trim Volume Envelope in the new v5.20 of Reaper.
We now have what could be called an automation trim mode for the volume envelope.

The actions are in a lose order of importance:
  • Track: Swap volume envelope and trim envelope
  • Track: Apply trim envelope to volume envelope, clear trim envelope
  • Track: Apply volume envelope to trim envelope, clear volume envelope
  • Track: Toggle track trim envelope visible


The slight downside to this approach needs mentioning though. It is the lack of a visual indicator on the UI.

What does happen is
  1. Your fader on the UI or control surface changes position (if trim and volume envelope are dissimilar)
  2. If one of the envelopes was visible it is swapped out for the other. The trim envelope is black, the volume envelope is green by default.


The basic principle is:
All GUI and control faders/knobs always apply to the track volume envelope
So, to do relative touch-ups on your volume rides, just swap the envelopes. Apply them if you wish.

You can do relative changes to the entire envelope with this little procedure, which when practiced can be done in less than a second:
  1. Set Latch mode
  2. Swap volume/trim envelope
  3. hit play, ride fader, find value
  4. Do "Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to to entire envelope"
  5. Stop
  6. Swap trim/volume
  7. Do "Track: Apply trim envelope to volume envelope, clear trim envelope"

The first two and the last four can be one custom action each.
Although definitely I don't understand what "Volume Trim" does, and why it is a benefit having so many volume options, I know the effort involved in the research and developing of a new feature is very very big, so... really thanks.

As always good job.

The community should be greatful to people like you.
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Old 05-20-2016, 02:31 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Complicate things further? Please show me an scenerio where this will complicate things further.

Btw, you can 'group' folder tracks with "Gorup folders to the left" if you need them all together.
Here's an example. You have a session with 30 folder tracks, because that's the root of your mix, but you need them combined in only 8 VCAs, some of those groups in few of them simultanously (let's say guitars and SOLOS witch can contain both), and a FX send VCA only for a part of your effects in one group. AND in the end, you want your VCA to master some channels that feeds compression on you folder track i two types, let's say direct hits and ambients, both in one folder tracsk with compressor, but want to manipulate them separately with two VCA's.

As you can see, there's plenty situations for VCA separatelly from folder tracks.
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