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06-05-2008, 05:50 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 519
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Tom, tom tom tom TOM
OK. So my toms generally sound a bit crap.
True, my RDV7 drum mics are hardly the greatest in the world but they're ok (the toms mics are dynamic) but whenever I record toms they have a strange sound of being just attack and general kit noise and nothing much else.
After squeezing and eqing and all that they sound better, naturally but I never think 'wow'!
Some simple failsafe techniques for getting a better tom sound please!
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06-05-2008, 07:42 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany's California
Posts: 1,543
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great heads (like remo pinstripes) and then tuning, tuning, tuning. seriously: tuning! if they don't already sound REALLY AWESOME when you got your ear above them, they never will.
also i couldn't find your mics on google. i use beyerdynamic opus 87 and they give a great sound.
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06-05-2008, 10:43 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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+1 for proper tuning, it really, really makes ALL the difference and is well worth the time. Even if you're not a drummer, it pays for an engineer to understand how, and have the tools, to tune a kit, because a LOT of drummers don't have a clue about it.
Mic placement and mic type are huge here. I would imagine your mics are probably the source of your woes - can you provide more specs?
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06-05-2008, 11:29 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Grunn (NL)
Posts: 234
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Great tool for tuning drums (whether you're the drummer or not...): Tama Tension Watch or DrumDial...
Succes with the TomTom.
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06-05-2008, 11:35 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,560
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i actually want to get a pack of 3 tom mics that are NOT expensive but pretty good.
sm57? are there any even cheaper?
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06-05-2008, 11:37 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Here's a handy link to the Drum Tuning Bible.
I printed a copy to keep at the studio, and I consider it a must-read for aspiring engineers.
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06-05-2008, 11:38 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
sm57? are there any even cheaper?
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There are probably cheaper mics, but you may not like them. Given you can use a 57 on so many things, it's a good investment.
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06-05-2008, 11:41 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themensch
There are probably cheaper mics, but you may not like them. Given you can use a 57 on so many things, it's a good investment.
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i mean specifically, for toms...
i wouldnt use a 57 on anything besides drums.
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06-05-2008, 01:06 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
i mean specifically, for toms...
i wouldnt use a 57 on anything besides drums.
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Really?? Well, different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
I've used 57's, 58's, mk012's, om2's, om5's, e604's, and probably some others I can't recall now. I definitely preferred the shures to the audix, I like the senns, and I really liked the octavas but all around, the senns are probably your best bet, but at $140 a pop, probably outside your price range. They're kind of a one-trick pony, too.
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06-05-2008, 02:41 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK.
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
i mean specifically, for toms...
i wouldnt use a 57 on anything besides drums.
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i've had fantastic results using a sole SM57 on guitars. they're versatile little buggers.
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06-05-2008, 03:08 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
i've had fantastic results using a sole SM57 on guitars. they're versatile little buggers.
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Yeah, me too. I've put a lot of mics on amps, but I always end up with a 57. When in a rush, I won't even try anything else.
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06-06-2008, 01:38 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 519
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And thanks for the replies - Drum Tuning Thang looks like a worthy read. Sounds like it's the key to a good sound...
Drum key.
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06-06-2008, 02:17 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Till
great heads (like remo pinstripes) and then tuning, tuning, tuning. seriously: tuning! if they don't already sound REALLY AWESOME when you got your ear above them, they never will.
also i couldn't find your mics on google. i use beyerdynamic opus 87 and they give a great sound.
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+1 for that, and hit them like you mean it, but Pipelineaudio will tell you more about that when he wakes up and reads this, for sure .
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06-06-2008, 03:40 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
i mean specifically, for toms...
i wouldnt use a 57 on anything besides drums.
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57s are a good general mic for live miking, but there are better.
if you're looking for good mics to close-mic for recording, then you could try sennheiser e604 -they come with a rim clamp too (tho i'd listen to any support-transmitted thumps). a little better is the HyperCardoid Electrovoice N/D468 (a replacement for the 408) -i've used these in studio and live (with the e604 clamps) and they're my standard tom and conga mic at the mo (i have nine) another good one is the sennheiser 421, but you're talking some moolah then for three...
but, as you know, it doesn't matter how good your mics are if your drum sounds are poo to start with.
beyer opus are good too, and compact-headed for those cymbal congested kits
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06-06-2008, 05:02 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany's California
Posts: 1,543
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dooood, a drum mic kit for 199 pounds? come on!
and seriously: opus 87
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06-06-2008, 05:18 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Till
dooood, a drum mic kit for 199 pounds? come on!
and seriously: opus 87
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looks great but a little too expensive for me.
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06-06-2008, 05:31 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Till
dooood, a drum mic kit for 199 pounds? come on!
and seriously: opus 87
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Those are good little mics for toms.. but tend to gather too much symbals if you want isolation.
Audix d-series is good set of mics for drums. D2 for toms.
Allso i5 will do. It is Audix "sm 57".
Last edited by Pipes; 06-06-2008 at 05:33 AM.
Reason: Typos
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06-06-2008, 05:41 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK.
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Till
dooood, a drum mic kit for 199 pounds? come on!
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are you saying it's too cheap or too expensive? cos in my experience, Red5 do good quality stuff.
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06-06-2008, 05:56 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
are you saying it's too cheap or too expensive? cos in my experience, Red5 do good quality stuff.
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interesting, ill check them out.
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06-06-2008, 10:14 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 519
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Yeah I'll stick up for RedV for the moment - I've a RV10 vocal mic that I really like... they only sell direct so you can add a little onto the equivalent price if you like. I think I did say the mics weren't mega hot anyway. But what I'm trying to do here really is ascertain is just that - if it's me - if it's the mics - if it's the tuning - if it's the drummer - al that. I'm willing to get new mics if it's required but would naturally prefer just to get better at recording...
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06-06-2008, 10:33 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amether
Yeah I'll stick up for RedV for the moment - I've a RV10 vocal mic that I really like... they only sell direct so you can add a little onto the equivalent price if you like. I think I did say the mics weren't mega hot anyway. But what I'm trying to do here really is ascertain is just that - if it's me - if it's the mics - if it's the tuning - if it's the drummer - al that. I'm willing to get new mics if it's required but would naturally prefer just to get better at recording...
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In that case, maybe you should post a sample (or multichannel project) of your recorded drums so folks can see/hear what is going on and determine wether it is mic, mic placement or drummer related.
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06-07-2008, 04:24 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
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I agree with loser, after all the recording gear is taken care of, the missing link is the drummer. If he doesn't hit the toms with attitude then forget about explosive toms... in that case replace with samples..
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
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06-07-2008, 06:22 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 519
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WELL...
Did a little experimenting - I found having a better drummer, some better drums and (importantly) pointing the mics towards more towards the centre of the tom, rather than more towards the edge as I was doing, made a big difference. I will post a comparison tho.
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06-07-2008, 06:47 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amether
WELL...
Did a little experimenting - I found having a better drummer, some better drums and (importantly) pointing the mics towards more towards the centre of the tom, rather than more towards the edge as I was doing, made a big difference. I will post a comparison tho.
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please do, i would like to hear how your mics sound.
It would be cool if you had a short multitrack set of flacs to show
i would love to try mixing with them to see what it sounds like...
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06-08-2008, 12:35 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Audix i-5 is like an indestructible SM-57 that's cheaper and has a little more bottom end (and sounds great on guitars too.)
I really like the CAD M-179 in hypercardioid mode, we did a huge shootout back at school and that sounded the most 'real' for toms and with almost no spill. It's a bit pricier but really useful for other stuff too (acoustic guitar/vox/bass cabs/front kick/room).
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06-23-2008, 01:14 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 519
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By the way, I've had NO time to grab the necessary files, but you can hear how they turned out at myspace.com/eightmandown and listen to "Bones". Lots of toms there.
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