Old 06-24-2008, 12:22 PM   #1
bullshark
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Default Tempo....again...

We've got tap tempo, define tempo by selection, tab to transient etc. Seems all the ingredients are there for my pet FR: Tap tempo by audio in.

What do I mean by that? Simply having the tap tempo feature listening to a defined audio in, and derive project tempo from that.

Why? Well, like many I'm sure, when I feel a tempo, I don't necessarily know what the mathematical value is so a tap tempo is great for that.

So why not use the tap tempo feature? Because I'm absolutely stupid with it. I can't tap a mouse button to tempo to save my life, but it's not the only reason:
You record a drummer, you want to set tempo for the recording; what do you do, get the drummer in the control room to tap your mouse? Or you have him kick the already-set-up kick drum to tempo and have Reaper intelligently set tempo from that?Personally, I like the second option better.

I know probably no other software does that, but a Reaper first wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, would it?

Is it even feasible?
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #2
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That would totally rock!!

You get a ++1
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #3
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That would be pretty nice all right.

Since reaper now rounds to whole numbers for tap tempo and that makes my life more difficult, I've installed a VST (Tap!1.2) that allows me to tap a tempo on my midi controller, which tends to work better than a mouse. Reaper still won't take the tempo from the plugin, but I don't know whose fault that is, so I just have to type it in manually. It slows down the workflow, but at least it can be done - maybe that'll help.

AnalogX also has a bpm analyzer that's pretty accurate, if you really feel like slowing down your workflow (but want it to be right.)
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:29 PM   #4
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Or from a MIDI controller.

...if it's not possible already.


A pad controller would be excellent for that.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
Or from a MIDI controller.

...if it's not possible already.


A pad controller would be excellent for that.
You can already, the action is there, just need to be assigned to your control of choice.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:03 AM   #6
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I dont believe i missed this one.

yeah this would rock, kinda like some beat detective functions.
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #7
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Wow, just a step away from a tempo-following DAW. In the end it could mean have a straight backing running and play your guitar/bass/anything and the music follows your tempo, ritardandi and everything. I dimly remember having seen such a thing somewhere on the web. Could have been midi only though?

Awesome possibilities in your idea. ++1
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Wow, just a step away from a tempo-following DAW. In the end it could mean have a straight backing running and play your guitar/bass/anything and the music follows your tempo, ritardandi and everything. I dimly remember having seen such a thing somewhere on the web. Could have been midi only though?

Awesome possibilities in your idea. ++1
Probably you've seen this?
http://www.circular-logic.com/products.html
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:51 PM   #9
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Yeah, that´s what i meant. Quite awesome if it works like advertized.

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Old 07-16-2008, 03:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Tap tempo by audio in.
very cool idea, bullshark! I hope to see this soon in R!
+1 !

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Old 07-16-2008, 06:51 AM   #11
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Default try this

I think what you are talking about is already possible.


First record the audio "click" track, then, starting from the beginning, press shift+x configured as this command:

[img]http://img168.**************/img168/6926/shortcutwh1.gif[/img]

Here it is in action (you can hold down shift+x):

[img]http://img230.**************/img230/5313/tempocd4.gif[/img]

I could be wrong about what you are asking though (sorry in that case)
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Old 07-16-2008, 06:54 AM   #12
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oh woops, yeah i was wrong... bla never min you just want the current tap tempo mechanism to be able to listen to an audio source. ya that would be cool
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:21 AM   #13
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It would be cool to use an audio source as a tempo engine but tempo warping (already FR'ed) will remove the need for that. Just let the drummer play and warp the tempo later.

It sounds like (never used it, can't even find it, where is it? I expected it to be on the "Metronone Settings" screen?...) the tap tempo in Reaper needs to be extended to the spacebar? That's what I'd typically use to tap tempo.

If it's only on the mousebutton... that's not good. The spacebar is used partly because it's the biggest key on the keyboard.

Don't know how it's done in Reaper ... can't find it.

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-16-2008 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Just let the drummer play and warp the tempo later.
Not the same. If I, or the drummer, want a click to record to you have to set tempo first. Recording to click and warping later are two very different thing IMO, and one doesn't exclude the other.

I'm aware that I can, and do, record a few bar first and use the tab to transient feature, followed by tempo from time selection, to derive tempo from audio. But it is a hassle just to get a click track to proper tempo. I would like to get a proper click before I record anything.

In short, I want something more... seamless, or free flowing if you will.

Last edited by bullshark; 07-16-2008 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
this only works with midi, not incoming audio
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Wow, just a step away from a tempo-following DAW. In the end it could mean have a straight backing running and play your guitar/bass/anything and the music follows your tempo, ritardandi and everything. I dimly remember having seen such a thing somewhere on the web. Could have been midi only though?

Awesome possibilities in your idea. ++1
Seems to me the maths are already there in Reaper, just need to hookup a few thing with a soldering iron, for a basic tap tempo from audio. Your idea is probably a bit more involved, but exciting nonetheless and...the sky's the limit with Reaper.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Not the same. If I, or the drummer, want a click to record to you have to set tempo first. Recording to click and warping later are two very different thing IMO, and one doesn't exclude the other.

I'm aware that I can, and do, record a few bar first and use the tab to transient feature, followed by tempo from time selection, to derive tempo from audio. But it is a hassle just to get a click track to proper tempo. I would like to get a proper click before I record anything.

In short, I want something more... seamless, or free flowing if you will.
I hear ya. I don't record to click tracks but I do think your idea would be cool for those who do.

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-16-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:36 PM   #18
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There's a tap tempo action that can be bound to a keyboard shortcut or MIDI event... so, maybe we're closer then we think. If you really wanted to you could achieve this right now using reagate and midi yoke.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youn View Post
There's a tap tempo action that can be bound to a keyboard shortcut or MIDI event... so, maybe we're closer then we think. If you really wanted to you could achieve this right now using reagate and midi yoke.
I, and another poster from this forum (can't remember who unfortunately), already tried something of the kind a while back, but we couldn't get it to work unfortunately. Something was missing, but I can't recall what exactly at this time. Probably worth it to revisit at some point thought, thanks.
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:00 PM   #20
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I just set it up, it's pretty easy.

in preferences you need to set midi yoke channel to enabled+control for keyboard shortcuts to hear it.

Place reagate on the kick drum track (or whatever you are using for tap source) and let it trigger a midi note.

You'll need to engage input monitoring so live audio will trigger a midi note.

Route the track's MIDI Hardware Output to MIDI Yoke Channel 1.

goto keyboard shortcut and press the "Special key" button and wait for the midi note to come in. if you used the default note and channel 1, the shortcut will look like this "MIDI Chan 0 Note 69"

of course, the action needs to be set to "Transport: tap tempo"




well... it works here without any problems. So when you want to get the tempo, just route the midi channel, wait for the audio click to set the tempo, then un-route the midi... done
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #21
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Just downloaded Midiyoke, if this work I'll buy you a beer!
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:51 AM   #22
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Today is a happy day! I got the tap tempo by audio in to work thanks to Youn imaginative workaround. Just took some fiddling to set Reagate, but I've saved the track as a track template so now it's just a matter of inserting the track template, play to set tempo, delete the track once tempo is set and then record. Love it, thanks Youn!

Last edited by bullshark; 07-17-2008 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Today is a happy day! I got the tap tempo by audio in to work thanks to Youn imaginative workaround. Just took some fiddling to set Reagate, but I've saved the track as a track template so now it's just a matter of inserting the track template, play to set tempo, delete the track once tempo is set and then record. Love it, thanks Youn!
could you share this template for the lazy? (me)
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:21 AM   #24
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Sure, but the template is only half the story, it's just the Reagate setup on an armed track with audio in and MIDI hardware out selected; the other half is to setup midiyoke as a controller and set the action, which isn't hard to do but the template isn't going to do that for you unfortunately. Come to think of it, the template might not even work on your particular hardware configuration; but I'll upload it to my server later on anyway.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:28 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Sure, but the template is only half the story, it's just the Reagate setup on an armed track with audio in and MIDI hardware out selected; the other half is to setup midiyoke as a controller and set the action, which isn't hard to do but the template isn't going to do that for you unfortunately. Come to think of it, the template might not even work on your particular hardware configuration; but I'll upload it to my server later on anyway.
yeah i figured it out

it would be stupid to make a template actually.

Thanks bullshark, for bringing this up, and thanks youn for figuring it out

now, if only we could use this to beatmap a song
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
now, if only we could use this to beatmap a song
The problem with doing that is that there's no way to insert a tempo marker without having the dialog pop up; the other problem is that the transport tempo and the tempo markers seems a bit disconnected in Reaper. When you play a song with tempo markers for example, the transport tempo doesn't even reflect the actual tempo being played back, which is a bit weird. Hopefully, the Cockos team will revisit this in the not too distant future.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:34 AM   #27
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Instead of having the audio trigger the "tap tempo" action, try this one:



This will make the incoming audio set measure-by-measure tempo map. You can play along to the song afterwards and watch the grid take shape.

I realize that's not exactly what you were imagining, but I thought I'd share it anyways
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youn View Post
I think what you are talking about is already possible.


First record the audio "click" track, then, starting from the beginning, press shift+x configured as this command:

[img]http://img168.**************/img168/6926/shortcutwh1.gif[/img]

Here it is in action (you can hold down shift+x):

[img]http://img230.**************/img230/5313/tempocd4.gif[/img]

I could be wrong about what you are asking though (sorry in that case)
wow
impressive demonstration !

btw, what's theme is your skin (I mean Reaper's ;-) ?
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:56 PM   #29
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thanks, there's a sticky in the tips subforum with some other techniques similar to this.

the skin is Vixie Plain V2

You can get it here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=18717
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