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Old 01-27-2006, 02:24 PM   #41
daveisadork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
A few things to mention as ideas. I was originally confused with the "FX" box and didn't realize this was an enable/bypass icon for the "INS". I think this button should be removed from the main channel strip, since it's confusing as to which button is for inserting FX's. I think it should be similar to Vegas that it's located within the INS chainer window, and the "INS" button changes color depending on the status of the FX's.
Personally, and this is something I discussed with pipeline last night, I would rather have a channel editor I can use. Click the FX button and brings up a window where I can see all my insert FX and aux FX and change everything there, very similar to Nuendo's channel editor.

I think that this and the method currently under discussion could happily co-exist. There are many, many things about working with audio that come down to nothing more than personal preference and I personally would like all the flexibility I can get.

Last edited by daveisadork; 01-27-2006 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 01-27-2006, 03:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveisadork
Personally, and this is something I discussed with pipeline last night, I would rather have a channel editor I can use. Click the FX button and brings up a window where I can see all my insert FX and aux FX and change everything there, very similar to Nuendo's channel editor.
I often want to send pre and post aux sends from the one channel and I'm still not sure how this would work with gravity-feed. I'm sure it would be a lot clearer in actual use than it appears to me now, but I fear that the gravity-feed concept on the channel fader is putting too much complexity into that level of the GUI.

I'd prefer the concept of a pop-up editor where you can have as much routing flexibility as you need, rather than trying to be able to see all things at once in the channel strip.

It really does come down to personal preference. I want it all. Now.
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Old 01-27-2006, 04:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
I often want to send pre and post aux sends from the one channel and I'm still not sure how this would work with gravity-feed. I'm sure it would be a lot clearer in actual use than it appears to me now, but I fear that the gravity-feed concept on the channel fader is putting too much complexity into that level of the GUI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shane
When you select an Aux send and the channel's fader/pan changes to that Aux send's levels, the signal flow of the block diagram would adjust to that Aux's settings. So really, the position of the AUX button on the channel's master send is just the default position for when an AUX is created.
Under the current proposed scheme, when you select an AUX send the gravity order of the channel buttons is rearranged to reflect the signal path of that AUX send.
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll

I think this button should be removed from the main channel strip, since it's confusing as to which button is for inserting FX's. I think it should be similar to Vegas that it's located within the INS chainer window, and the "INS" button changes color depending on the status of the FX's.
Good idea. Some will want it in, it was discussed but, maybe if its a button inside it might make it more palatable for those who wanted it to stay?


"Since this is a gravity type of signal flow diagram, I think it would be really cool if we could then have the channel strip change dynamically on it's UI. So somehow it could be laid out in a Top to bottom, or Left to Right order of signal processing. So if you decide to have an AUX, prefader then somehow the UI of the channel rearranges itself to show it's located above the Fader, or to the left. If it's post then some how it moves below the fader."

Shane had some ideas for this, a symbol representing the fader and one for pan. I was hoping it would be simpler without them. But he can explain it to you, he had a good idea for it


"The problem I see here though, is what happens when you have multiple Aux sends, where one is Pre fader and the other is Post Fader? Now you need to show 2 different Aux buttons,"

Already taken care of. When you switch to the aux in question, the buttons on the right of the meter rearrange themselves, so that you always know what the routing is! I also want to find a way so that the channel changes color to the color of that aux envelope. THAT would be slick

"or you need a "Show signal flow block diagram of channel button" Where when you press that, up pops that signal flow block diagram.""

I dont think this is an either or, I think an ability to show the signal flow diagram would be awesome

"Another thought now that you've explained the DX/VST FX limitation to me that I was not aware of. What prevents us making an FX insertable within the channer to fix this? Basically it's a routing/summing FX that can be inserted before an FX?"

If Justin can do that, it would be badass for sure. This would be a utility worth its weight in gold.

Also if he could do that, I bet we could get him to make sidechain control signals from track to track! I'd rather have grids and open copy ion soundforge first though, but either way

"So correct me if I'm wrong. You have a stereo track. Of that stereo track you only want the Left channel to feed the input to say a Reverb. Insert Routing FX pre Reverb FX. Routing FX says Right input = MUTE. Left Input= Left out and Right Out. Thus at this point within the plugin you have a mono source on both the left and right channels of the plugin. Now with the plugin we have a Pan control, so now we can Pan that input to the Reverb however we want. Is this starting to sound like what G-Pan does?"

Im not sure I got this understood correct what you are saying.
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane
BUT, there should be another mode, probably by holding down a key. We'll call it "Routing Mode." In routing mode, when you select a channel all the other channel's fader/pans change to their sends for the selected channel. This way, you could select an aux buss in routing mode and easily see the levels of everything feeding into it. Releasing the routing mode key would revert all faders back to normal, so no problem for users not interested in this kind of functionality...
This coud be very similar to the RME Totalmix's "submix function"

VERY quick!
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Zero
What about auxes themselves? Have you figured a way of distinguishing them from normal tracks? eg, once you make a track an aux the fader colour or background colour changes or similar. What do you think of my idea of somehow having the option to automatically group all the auxes together and/or hide them when necessary?
Ben
This goes to the heart of Justin's original track is bus is aux paradigm. If you think of a god wy, by ameans spill it. My brain hurts st thinkng about it, and I've tried to make my suggestions based on it, since although, well, weird , it allows some pretty comprehensive routing
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
I often want to send pre and post aux sends from the one channel and I'm still not sure how this would work with gravity-feed. I'm sure it would be a lot clearer in actual use than it appears to me now, but I fear that the gravity-feed concept on the channel fader is putting too much complexity into that level of the GUI.
It works simply and elegantly. You choose the pre/post fx, pre/post channel volume and pan mode PER aux send per track

The buttons on the right will reflect your choice whenever you switch to the aux in question
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveisadork
I think that this and the method currently under discussion could happily co-exist. There are many, many things about working with audio that come down to nothing more than personal preference and I personally would like all the flexibility I can get.
I agree, if we need a real-estate hogging, dark and dreary looking 4 monitor wide channel strip thingy with cryptic symbols all over it to get the cubendo guys up to speed, it should be able to be included without breaking the easy channel paradigm.

Dave will draw it, Justin can implement it, and we Vegans can ignore it LOL !

Works for everyone
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:21 AM   #49
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It occurs to me that some of this fader would have to be flopped around in order to place it in the vertical mixer.

I would hate to have the crippled vertical mixer of cubendo, and I think it should be possible to mod this a tiny bit and still make it work

Input chooser on the left, followed by record arm, monitor, Phase, ins, aux, with output chooser and the solo mute buttons at the far end

Meter next ( maybe with a hide meter button)

Channel fader and pan fader below. Possibly stacked?
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:15 AM   #50
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I've let you guys get pretty far ahead already, but I'll just say this now:

I may not do EVERYTHING you guys ask. It really comes down to if I really dig it or not. a lot of what has been suggested is good, but it can get pretty far out there, too. anyway...

0.54 is shaping up nicely, expect it tomorrow! Takes, yay! Edit copy, yay! more surprises, yay!

-J
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:46 AM   #51
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WOO HOO!!!!

Let us know what you dig or dont dig or if it just isnt proposed well enough and we can work from there. The routing already does everything I could ask for, were just working on a way to make it more intuitive to acess.

Cant wait till 0.54!

Id sleep but I gotta babysit my ebay bids YAK!

This app has come so far so (seemingly to us anyway, who knows how long youve been working on it before) in so short a time!

Its gone from "ahhh, another ardour that I can play with, waste a ton of time trying to work it, then go back to using my main app" to full blown HOLY CRAP this is IT!

In no time

Great job so far Justin, and Christophe Thibault too. Is he around these parts?
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:47 AM   #52
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Yeah, this is all brainstorming in wild abandon. Most of the ideas are good, but you can't have everything. I'm pretty happy with the foundation already, now it's just a matter of tweaking to perfection. Now if I could just solve my damn hardware problems...

Feedback from anyone on which parts of this scheme they like or don't like, or if anything needs clarification, would be helpful.
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