Midi editor ruler font : I'm stuck...

[cubic13]

It's becoming a kind of nightmare...

Yesterday, With Reaper 5.0/x64 (the official release, installed as portable), I was testing different fonts for the arrange ruler with the Timeline font option of the 'Theme tweaker' window. After a while and different attempts, I choosed the 'Liberation Sans/normal/9' one. Fine... Until I opened for a reason the MIDI editor and discovered that its ruler had the font that you can see in the screenshot below : absolutely not what I wanted. Starting from this, I tried :

- other fonts in the 'Timeline font' setting : no change (still not found which font it is, by the way...).
- other themes : no joy, the midi editor timeline font kept on staying as it was, even if the arrange timeline font was changing, according to the theme used.
- other projects : same thing.
- to set other fonts in all the 'Walter font' available in the theme tweak window : still no joy...
- to close Reaper : same thing.
- to reboot the system and relaunch Reaper : same thing, no matter the theme or the project.

At the end, I got tired of all the mess and decided that it was best to sleep on it... This morning, I decided to look more closely at Reaper.ini and the only thing I found, fonts related, are these :

tl_font=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000000 000000030201224C696265726174696F6E2053616E73004E61 72726F7700000000000000000000E1
mi_font=F7FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000000 000000030201224D6963726F736F66742053616E7320536572 696600000000000000000000000031
lb_font=F7FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000000 00000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000096
lb_font2=F3FFFFFF000000000000000000000000BC0200000 00000000302012243616C696272690020446C6700000000000 00000000000000000000000000000C3
trans_font=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 000000000030201224C696265726174696F6E2053616E73004 E6172726F7700000000000000000000E1
user_font0=F8FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000097
user_font1=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font2=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font3=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font4=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font5=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font6=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
user_font7=F4FFFFFF0000000000000000000000009001000 00000000003020122417269616C00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000093
...
midifont_col_dark=4210752
midifont_col_light=12632256

Not really something manageable... So, I closed the file and took the plunge by deleting it and launched Reaper again : same unwanted font in the Midi editor and Reaper didn't created a new reaper.ini, contrarily to what I was naively expecting...

At this point, I thought that my Reaper installation was corrupted for an unknown reason. Consequently, I renamed my Reaper portable installation folder, reinstalled Reaper 5.0 within a new installation folder and relaunched it. More than an hour passed to retrieve all my settings : preferences to set again, custom colors missing, etc. At the end, I loaded an old project dated before all this mess and in the Midi editor I still had the same font, but with a reduced size, which was more acceptable for me. So, I saved all Reaper settings in a ReaperConfigZip file. I then tried to create a minimalistic project with only one Midi track and recorded few midi notes : I was still having the same reduced size font. At this point, I made a mistake, thinking of it again : I closed this project and, for a testing purpose, reloaded the project in which the issue appeared at first. The result is that I was having again what can be seen on the screenshot. I immediatly tried to reimport the configuration previously saved : no joy. So, I'm exactly at the same stage as the beginning, even after closing the project without saving it and reloading the 'minimalistic' one.

From which my question : how on earth the Midi editor ruler font is managed and how to end all this ? The only thing I would like is to have both the midi editor and the arrange rulers to share the same font which is, I think, the logical behavior expected without any midi editor ruler font setting at disposal, whether in the preferences or in the theme tweak window.

Thanks for any enlightment, because I'm completely stuck at this moment with this horrible font...

[cubic13]

Bump !

I'm still stuck with this one. So, if anyone has a clue...

[hopi]

hi Cubic...

so in that theme tweaker window as you show it...

If you clk on the WALTER fonts items...

do you not get another window showing what the font and size is for each of those?

I do...

In my own theme the two fonts in question that you care about do indeed show up exactly the same. I'm using Tahoma at 7 points, set to bold and colored white...

[cubic13]

Hi, hopi, and thanks for answering.

I have checked the different Walter fonts : they are all set to 'Arial/Normal/8' excepting the first one, which is set as 'Arial/Normal/6', as I use it for the tcp pan/width labels, these needing a very small display in my theme. The 'Timeline font' is set to 'Liberation Sans/Normal/9'. I tried the same font that you are using for the 'Timeline font' setting : same result...

Beside this, the glich remains, no matter the theme I try to use : 'default' one, Apollo, JanneV_103, Default_Commala_4, ReaBorn and others... Same f.....g font in the midi editor ruler in each and every case, so I reckon that the issue is not theme dependent, from which my feeling of helplessness. I'm simply unable to get rid of it...

[hopi]

I'd suspect that today you are way ahead of me in doing the WALTER rtconfig code....

but as I recall there is an interplay between that and the tweaker...

I'm thinking if you have fonts defined in the rtconfig they trump the tweak changes... I might mistaken [hey, I might even be wrong...hahaha]

so maybe have a looky through the rtconfig.

[cubic13]

I looked again at my rtconfig.txt and there is not that much, fonts related, actually : just few instructions to allocate the Walter font 1 at the tcp pan/width labels, as well as the mcp.fxparms ones and one allocating the Walter font 2 to the mcp.label. Few other instructions are also there to give the mcp fxlist/sendlist labels the same font as the volpan setting.

Again, all the other themes that I tested are also affected. The font of the midi editor ruler doesn't change, no matter the theme used...

There is a little progress, though : I now know, after several added tests, that the font which has been wrongly affected to the midi editor ruler is 'Liberation Sans/Normal/10'. Which brings me to nowhere, as trying to get rid of any 'Liberation Sans' font for all the 5 fonts settings of the 'Theme tweak' window doesn't change anything either.

So, I'm almost at the same point. At this moment, I would like someone among the devs crew to chime in, just to give us some hints about how the midi editor ruler font is managed...

[hopi]

I hope they do!

I dbl checked and even though it looks the same as my timeline font, I cannot get it to change either... never knew that...

while you're waiting a consult with cincicat might help...

[cubic13]

Thanks for the confirmation, hopi !

So, anyone else having the same issue ? I'd like to be sure that there is a true problem here, before reporting it as a bug.

IMO, the midi editor ruler font, without any setting available, whether in the 'Theme tweak' window or the preferences, should stay EXACTLY the same as the arrange ruler one. It's clearly not the case, at least on my setup, and it seems that under difficult to reproduce conditions, unwanted changes occur...

[xpander]

Originally Posted by cubic13

IMO, the midi editor ruler font, without any setting available, whether in the 'Theme tweak' window or the preferences, should stay EXACTLY the same as the arrange ruler one. It's clearly not the case, at least on my setup, and it seems that under difficult to reproduce conditions, unwanted changes occur...

Yes, I think both ruler fonts (Arrange & MIDI editor) used to be affected by the same one Timeline font setting in the Theme tweaker. The little I had time to test it today, in v5 the timeline font setting affects only the Arrange ruler, MIDI editor ruler font doesn't change at all here.

[hopi]

ok so we got dual confirms and hopefully cubic will report the problem and make some noise about it....

I'd imgaine, while the dev's are in there under the hood of this, it would be really nice IF we could set the two timeline fonts separately... one for arrange and one for midi ed.

[cubic13]

Report done : http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=165715 ...

Thank, xpander, for having tested this.

Any other tests concerning this would be welcomed, as I'm stuck with the same unwanted font in the midi editor ruler since several days...

[cubic13]

Bump again. Still no changes with Reaper 5.20/64 and it seems that nobody care about the report previously done...

To keep things short : how to make the MIDI editor ruler font the same as the arrange one ?

[cubic13]

One more bump...

I have tested this with my no longer used Reaper 4.77 'regular' installation, instead of the Reaper 5 portable one : same behavior - the MIDI editor ruler font remains the same, no matter the themes used - but at least, the font displayed (MS Sans Serif/Normal/8) is more suited to the themes I was using with it, at this time.

So, the question remains : how do you all manage the displayed MIDI editor ruler font ?

[cubic13]

ReaBump...

[tocsey]

any solution has been founnd?

Thanks!

[Luster]

Just realized that too. The timeline in the MIDI editor is really ugly looking. Like an unsound scaling factor in GUI is messing with it.

[hopi]

Cubic... sorry you're not getting much in the way of replies.... maybe a PM to WT to see if he has any ideas?

also... you have my CIRCUS from what I can tell I see the same ruler font in both the arrange and ME with that.... and as you know the rtconfig is an older one.... if I recall correctly I made the changes in the tweaker... and not in the rtconfig

[cubic13]

Hi, hopi

Yes, it seems that this issue is not the concern of many... Strange, because it's obvious and gives a nasty amateurish view of Reaper whenever you have the MIDI editor opened. Each time I test all this, it seems that a font or another is used in the MIDI editor ruler, this, in a completely erratical way.

Sincerely, I don't think that this is a theming problem : on all the themes I have, the issue is showing, and I have more than 40 of them installed...

I tested your CIRCUS999-BIG theme and sadly, it behaves like all the other ones : the two fonts are different. Could you precise exactly on which setting you made the change in the tweaker ? Thanks.

[Win Conway]

Welcome to Reaper theming, it is half baked at best, deal with it, users want new features not nice UI (unfortunately)

[hopi]

well now you have me really confused...

here is a screenshot of CIRCUS for the arrange and ME...
the fonts look the same to me.... no???

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1980/ci...0and%20arr.png

[cubic13]

@gpunk_w
Again, I'm almost certain that this doesn't have anything to do with theming, as all the themes I have at disposal are affected. But yes, in an ideal world, a themer should be able to choose the choice of the MIDI editor ruler font as (s)he can for the arrange one.

@hopi
Sorry, but your link leads to an empty item in the stash (the file is 0 kb). Could you delete it and try to reload it, this time in the 'untagged' category ? Thanks.

[cubic13]

After more tests, I begin to see what is actually happening. Seems that there is a superposition of two bugs :

- The first one is that, no matter the theme choosed, I am stuck with the same midi editor ruler font (MERF), this, as long as I work with the same Reaper session. To make any change occurs, I have to close the project, quit Reaper and relaunch it. This is not normal, IMO.

- But there is more. As I think that few images will be better than a long speech, here they are :


1) I first use the default theme. For a reason, the Midi editor ruler font (MERF) doesn't match the arrange one...




2) I then choose hopi CIRCUS 999-BIG theme : notice that the MERF doesn't change...




3) After closing the project, quitting Reaper and relaunching it, I get this : the MERF has followed the arrange one (this matches the fact that hopi has reported a 'normal' font disposition in his previous post).




4) Now I choose the paulie theme. Same thing as 2) : the MERF doesn't change.




5) Again, after closing the project, quitting Reaper and relaunching it, I get this : this time, the MERF doesn't match the arrange one. Instead, a kind of font substitution has occured and it seems this is erraticaly dependent of the arrange font choosed for the theme.




6) Then I choose Apollo theme : same thing as 2) and 4) : the MERF hasn't changed.




7) Again, after closing the project, quitting Reaper and relaunching it, I get this : this time, the MERF has followed, as for the CIRCUS theme. For what reason ? A mystery...




8) Finally, I choose again the default theme. Same thing as 2), 4) and 6) : the MERF hasn't changed and notice that it is NOT the same as it was in 1)...





To sum this up, it seems that for some fonts, the MERF follows the arrange one but for others it doesn't : a font substitution occurs in a more or less erratical way. I would really like to know some more about the algorithm used for this and which fonts are actually involved in the process.

Conclusion : the midi editor ruler font management is as buggy as can be and there is no way for a themer to fix the MERF for a given theme. At this point, I'm wondering how something as evident as this has passed a minimal quality check...

[Never]

Originally Posted by cubic13

After more tests, I begin to see what is actually happening. Seems that there is a superposition of two bugs :

Conclusion : the midi editor ruler font management is as buggy as can be and there is no way for a themer to fix the MERF for a given theme. At this point, I'm wondering how something as evident as this has passed a minimal quality check...

@CUBIC....Sorry I have [NEVER] saw this post lol; maybe I can shed
some light here.
Upon having the same difficulties during the development of my ION
theme, I decided to create another version of the theme in the
'Tweaker', and set every single selectable font to a different
font, style, and size. I then named this theme 'Font_Figure'.

(For figuring out specific fonts and which numbered WALTER font
or labeled WALTER font they are attributed to.)

I figured out, much as everyone suspected, that the 'Timeline' font
also governs the MIDI editor timeline font. However, with the following
exceptions:

ONLY the 'Timeline' 'FONT' setting within the 'Tweaker' is passed to the
MIDI editor timeline, not the size, style, script setting, or fill mode.
REAPER will decide, according to the font's form factor, what the
appropriate size will be, in order to fit the MIDI editor timeline
margin nicely without clipping, or overlapping.

REAPER will populate the MIDI timeline margin with a 'REGULAR' style
version of the font, at a one-digit precision for the 1st beat of measures,
and a 'REGULAR' style version of the same font, same color, usually same
size, but at a two-digit precision for the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th measures of
the beat.

Also Reaper only refreshes the changes made in the 'Tweaker' to the MIDI
editor when the app is closed and restarted.

Noteworthy: I have experienced a substantially degraded level of
antialiasing on the text drawn on the MIDI editor timeline compared
to the main timeline with some fonts, colors, or 'colours' lol.

All this may seem like buggy behavior, or 'behaviour', for those
madmen across the water, but this element is governed the way I explained,
and I am confident to make that claim.....UNFORTUNATELY!!

It should not be that much trouble to make this element adhere to the same
standard as the main timeline, or have it's own setting. To be honest,
it usually looks like rubbish.

[cubic13]

Hi, Never, and thanks for bringing some more informations about this.

Originally Posted by Never

...
ONLY the 'Timeline' 'FONT' setting within the 'Tweaker' is passed to the
MIDI editor timeline, not the size, style, script setting, or fill mode.
REAPER will decide, according to the font's form factor, what the
appropriate size will be, in order to fit the MIDI editor timeline
margin nicely without clipping, or overlapping.

OK, but I don't understand in which case, for a same font used in both arrange and MIDI editor, the font could clip or overlap in the latter and not in the former...

Originally Posted by Never

REAPER will populate the MIDI timeline margin with a 'REGULAR' style
version of the font, at a one-digit precision for the 1st beat of measures,
and a 'REGULAR' style version of the same font, same color, usually same
size, but at a two-digit precision for the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th measures of
the beat.

I'm not sure that I get the one or two-digit precision. And what is a 'regular' style in a given font ?

Originally Posted by Never

Also Reaper only refreshes the changes made in the 'Tweaker' to the MIDI
editor when the app is closed and restarted.

... and this is a bug in my view : again, why making the font choice for the arrange window immediately visible and not in the ME ? What makes this necessary ?

Originally Posted by Never

Noteworthy: I have experienced a substantially degraded level of
antialiasing on the text drawn on the MIDI editor timeline compared
to the main timeline with some fonts, colors, or 'colours' lol.

All this may seem like buggy behavior, or 'behaviour', for those
madmen across the water, but this element is governed the way I explained,
and I am confident to make that claim.....UNFORTUNATELY!!

It should not be that much trouble to make this element adhere to the same
standard as the main timeline, or have it's own setting. To be honest,
it usually looks like rubbish.

So, more or less the same conclusion : there is a strange and unpredictable algorithm working under the hood that makes the whole thing not appear as it should (the exact same font for both windows, as there is no setting that could allow the choice of a specific font for the ME). Overall, this is, for me, a bug and a nasty one, as for some fonts there is no substitution and for others there is one with an unpredictable result...

[hopi]

I'll just send it to you by email.... the stash does get strange sometimes

NEVER's detailed explaination is great... More than I ever knew...

and I join the one who request that it be fixed in reaper and walter so that it cam be controlled better

[stamp]

My eyes hurt everytime I look at those little grainy numbers.

[Icchan]

EDIT: This has been fixed on version 5.965!

It seems this is still an issue. Tried to work it out on my theme and no avail... I hope we'll get this thing fixed soon

[icecoffee]

Unfortunately I cannot change the font size in Reaper 7 in the Midi editor (Ruler in the Midi editor). The names of the regions are difficult to read. Furthermore, only one row of regions is displayed.