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Old 08-21-2015, 02:31 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by keyman_sam View Post
Still a major PITA. Why go to the transport at all when you can just click where you want to go? I mean, isn't that the most logical way to navigate quickly? Clicking somewhere vs. entering numbers/dragging something?

This is an even bigger problem in midi/audio editor in cubase where there's no 'locate when clicked in empty space' option. Looks like it is more optimized for keyboard than mouse.
in the editors you click in the ruler to locate.
probably in order to retain selection.
I use the various "zoom to" , "go to" and "loop selection" commands a lot to locate, as they do several handy things in one go, or you can easily write macros.
You'll have to assign them yourself though, like most of the better stuff.
Cubase is certainly keyboard oriented, like all pro applications.
Mouse editing is slow ...
Triple shame on Steinberg they destroyed the all-important keyboard focus in 7ff, C6.5 was a joy for effective and precise editing.
ymmv,
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:31 PM   #122
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You say Reaper can play notes beyond the part boundary with a script.
No I didn't, I answered your question which did not include that exact criteria.
While you're pointing to scripts, show me a script that allows splitting midi clips in arrange without splitting overlapping notes, where the notes that extend beyond the split still play all the way through instead of creating new notes you didn't play and cutting the note you did play short. Got a script for that? That's one of my personal annoyances.
You didn't say anything about them playing beyond any part boundaries. They play until the end because it splits them, making sure there are no split notes in the right hand item and extends the notes to the original lengths in the left hand item, increasing the boundary of the left one to the length of the longest "split" note.

So functionally it does the same job, playing notes to the end - but it looks different to the picture you added afterwards. I'm going to add functionality to it that does the same on the left hand side with notes because I hate splitting stuff where a note start is slightly before the split point.
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:35 PM   #123
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Ok, that was just a simple misunderstanding, thanks.

The problem with splitting clips in Reaper (your scripts aside, I haven't tried them yet) is that it literally changes the musical performance. I'm accustomed to "blocking out" my midi parts that way, trimming or splitting, same thing, while not changing the musical performance.

If a note cuts off before it's supposed to, that changes the musical performance. If a note can't play past the part boundary that means you can't block out clips that way (to bars) without changing the performance.

I never said it was impossible, I only suggested I haven't yet seen Reaper do that, and it's been discussed in depth. It wasn't me saying you were "lying", it was me asking to see it so I could try it.

Thanks. I'll look over your scripts.

Last edited by Lawrence; 08-21-2015 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:52 PM   #124
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"ProfRhino: another super useful feature especially for you, not known in Reaper, would be the context sensitive info line, combined with mousewheel-over for detailed editing this is mega convenient"

It is such a simple thing and for me one of the basic must have.
Speed up things so much that REAPER (at the moment? ---) dont has.
Neither in the List View at lines, still in Piano Roll via Info-Line.

And I mean inside native core and not by maybe any third party script that popup........

And guys, to open a dialog box for an event and then type in values,
is absolutely a farce!!
(same farce with selecting, click in list and users only can do type in).
For speed and a good midi editing it is really a must have,
that users can change event values simply by mouse wheel up and down movements.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:04 PM   #125
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Cubase has that option, "Click to Locate in Empty Space". Anyway, yeah, some daws simply don't do that. Not sure that would be a deal breaker for using a daw though... well, it's obviously not since some don't do that.

How do you select an event in Reaper with the mouse without locating? (modifier) In some other hosts you use a modifier to locate.
Yes I'm already using that option but it doesn't snap to grid, doesn't work in midi editor and audio editor, leaving me to use mouse and keyboard instead of a simple click.

Is there a modifier that will allow me to locate to where the cursor clicks? At least that would be helpful!

Anyways I've setup my mouse buttons to nudge so that I can click on empty space and use nudge to snap. Drag and drop to melodyne also works alleviating my other concern. I still need to fix render in place macro to get to anywhere near reaper's implementation. C7.5.3 seems stable so I might take the plunge after all.
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:18 PM   #126
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Is there a modifier that will allow me to locate to where the cursor clicks? At least that would be helpful!.
Not that I'm aware of through v5, no idea about v8. I'd search the action list for both "cursor" & "locate" to see if there's an action that will locate the mouse cursor, which is one of the two ways S1 solves that same issue. It borrowed that "not ideal" behavior from Cubase, not locating when clicking directly on media.

Like Reaper, Cubase has a relative ton of actions and most of them aren't bound to anything from the factory. But yeah, a "Locate Mouse Cursor" action would be handy. My guess is that most people using ocntrok surfaces are using a scrub wheel to locate, which is what I mostly did with HUI mode on my console.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:08 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Breeder
Problem with REAPER is that all of these customizations are a two-edged sword.
Yes, they enable us a lot of useful stuff, but it's not always such a simple thing to use it because it's not always 100% possible to implement things in extensions or scripts to appear "native"...there's always something you have to be mindful of. And that's exactly what I want to circumvent - I don't want to think about all of these details, implementations, gotchas etc...while working creatively with music. Micromanaging the project in this phase kills the inspiration.
How many times I've opened REAPER, started playing around with MIDI keyboard, doing things...and suddenly I want to do something and that requires me to stop with everything, turn on the text editor and bash out yet another script or functionality for SWS.

I've been coding and customizing REAPER extensively for the last 2-3 years and that feels like the only thing I've done. Ok, it may be my fault because I have this OCD approach to things where I absolutely have to have everything done before doing serious work because I'm trying to have zero of those situations where I stop with music and start coding something. But it's getting tiring and I still didn't accomplish everything I've wanted (feature-wise). And the more things I add to REAPER to make it bend to my feel, the more things get complicated.
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I have to say that I absolutely adore chord track and chord pads. Just yesterday I spent a few hours playing with these features and it was really fun and inspirational. I've already created a few melodies and progressions that feel worthy enough to receive more work

Chord pads could probably get used in REAPER via some kind of FX, but here's that thing about REAPER again...you have to micromanage things that way, be careful which track has the FX for chord pads, where is it routed, how will you render MIDI output from FX that does chord pads, etc... In Cubase, you simply don't have to care. Chord pads are docked in main window and work with anything, as long as you enable them.

Chord track on the other hand may seem redundant to people who are proficient with composition and playing MIDI keyboard. Me on the other hand, I'm a guitarist and while I can dabble with MIDI keyboard a bit, it's not my primary instrument and chord track enables me to stay "in the groove" when trying different things, looking for a "voice" I hear in my head which I'm trying to sketch out so I can hear it in the real world.
Heh heh, I hate to say it Breeder, but I think you may have a split personality. One part the programmer, the other the musician. I do think they can go hand and hand pretty well though, because they both require imagination. Also they both require a certain amount of inspiration.

However, I think one of the most sought after attributes for a musician is inspiration. It's true, it can be right there in front of you for one moment, and then gone the next. I think a lot depends of where it's coming from, and if it's one of those off the cuff kind of things that just comes out of the blue, it's pretty delicate and can easily be lost.

Having something like the chord pads you're talking about can probably be a great source for inspiration, but more importantly they're tangible and sitting right there in front of you, not so easily forgotten.

Over the years, I think it's the video projects I've done for various clients, that has been one of my most inspirational points of focus, at least for orchestrational stuff. With video it's also sitting right there in front of you and certainly inspires emotion.

Of course the objective is to take an idea from concept to a finished rendered mix, and the way you get there can be varied.

However, if you do it with midi, there are things you have to absolutely know. For example, you have to intimately know your VSTi libraries and their articulations, as well as how to control them with midi controllers. Of course you also have to play and/or draw all your midi events, as well as edit them in a midi editor. I think it's this process that probably has the biggest potential to be a drain on inspiration, and I think it has little to do with any particular DAW.

The way I think of it is that, In order to pull it off successfuly, you have to be the composer, the director, all the musicians, the DAW operater, and the audio engineer. A truley impossible situation and not for the feint hearted, yet there are folks out there doing it every day.

Well I think I got carried away here a little bit, kind of one of my old brain farts. You are a great programmer Breeder, what you've done with Reaper stands for itself. If your as good at creating music then I'm really anxious to hear what you come up with.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:14 PM   #128
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Not that I'm aware of through v5, no idea about v8. I'd search the action list for both "cursor" & "locate" to see if there's an action that will locate the mouse cursor, which is one of the two ways S1 solves that same issue. It borrowed that "not ideal" behavior from Cubase, not locating when clicking directly on media.

Like Reaper, Cubase has a relative ton of actions and most of them aren't bound to anything from the factory. But yeah, a "Locate Mouse Cursor" action would be handy. My guess is that most people using ocntrok surfaces are using a scrub wheel to locate, which is what I mostly did with HUI mode on my console.
Yeah I might add an FR in their forum (feels like cheatin' on Reaps ). As a mouse+keys guy with most of my modifiers and shortcuts near my left hand, Reaper was blazing fast. Would be wonderful to get there with Cubase, albeit with its shortcomings.

On the positive side, with 7.5 the stability issue seems sorted out so today was a pretty good day. Gotta say, I love the unified one-window approach. Things are mostly where you expect them to be and don't require long lists or menus. Now and then I come across some stupid limitation (mousewheel changes mixer controls, instr+group tracks can't be saved in trackPresets, inspector view not consistent for all tracks, etc.) but knowing these limitations and not having to deal with a plethora of menus gives me an odd sense of comfort (it's broken but 'not my fault!' kinda thing).
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:29 PM   #129
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the test is nothing. overclocked doesnt count. i dont even think about explaining what a nonsense test this was. overclockerbullshit.
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:35 AM   #130
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Yeah I might add an FR in their forum (feels like cheatin' on Reaps ). As a mouse+keys guy with most of my modifiers and shortcuts near my left hand, Reaper was blazing fast. Would be wonderful to get there with Cubase, albeit with its shortcomings.
Don't hold your breath on Steinberg feature requests though! I don't think I've ever had one get implemented, and I've been asking for CC improvements for so many years I've lost count.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:04 AM   #131
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the test is nothing. overclocked doesnt count. i dont even think about explaining what a nonsense test this was. overclockerbullshit.
Well that's a bullshit statement in itself. Of course overclocked counts - it works just like any other CPU. Only at a higher frequency. LOL.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:41 AM   #132
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no, but im not in the mude to discuss it. they would sell a CPU as 3GHZ if it was a 3GHZ and not a 2.6GHZ.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:58 AM   #133
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Nope, that's not how things work. All CPUs nowadays have some leeway for overclocking. Just a fact of life and how Intel operates.

Besides, extra performance for $0 is always good.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:11 AM   #134
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Early July I downloaded CB Pro 8 Trial version just to compare it to my old CB 5.5.3 which became almost unusable due to high CPU especially with any Abbey Road drum kit in Kontakt.

Talk about chalk and cheese just paid for the upgrade and installed CB Pro 8.0.20 and loving it.

Cubase Pro 8 and Reaper 5 are both magic and I can quite happily live with them both. Do I have a preference? I'm swaying heavily towards Cubase in part because I have Yamaha KX61 keyboard controller which integrates perfectly and for some of the reasons mentioned by others.

But the amazing thing is that to even compare them considering the difference in price is a major plus to Reaper.
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Old 08-22-2015, 05:10 AM   #135
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I don't know many midi composers who only ever use one daw, though I'm sure there are some out there. I'll fire up FL Studio sometimes because the way it works leads me to a competely different place and some things are jost - so - mich easier to do there.

It's really not a contest, it's all just tools in the same big toolbox.
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:28 AM   #136
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Besides, extra performance for $0 is always good.
Up to 20% more power consumption from the CPU isn't exactly $0.
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:45 AM   #137
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Up to 20% more power consumption from the CPU isn't exactly $0.
If you want to reduce power consumption you should play ukulele and not with a daw...

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Old 08-22-2015, 06:57 AM   #138
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In you want to reduce power consumption you should play ukulele and not with a daw...
nice joke.
im sitting on a 10 Watts Pentium J2900 machine with 16GB RAM. (+ the Wattage of the screen (30) and the speakers (90) and the audiointerface (15) = 145 Watts)
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:11 AM   #139
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If you want to reduce power consumption you should play ukulele and not with a daw...
Or maybe you should buy a more powerful CPU to get that extra performance, not overclock it, and save money in the long term.

Intel Xeons exist for a reason and that's workstation/server with high loads all the time.
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:13 AM   #140
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Up to 20% more power consumption from the CPU isn't exactly $0.
Meh, hardly important considering your washing machine, or iron, or water heater, or A/C.


Can we get back on topic, please.
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:44 AM   #141
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"kenz: Or maybe you should buy a more powerful CPU to get that extra performance, not overclock it, and save money in the long term."

no need.
your wife, one bike + dynamo and of course a cable to your PC should do that easily.
--
I can tell you a different story:
The more the big masses of consumer has reduced the power consumption,
the more the prices were increased- that´s, for me, the true long term.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:49 PM   #142
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Look guys, here's the reality.

Apps like Cubase have a pretty big advantage on the midi front for one reason, they were doing fully professional midi long before applications were even capable of handling loads of audio. That's all they did. Cubase was a professional midi sequencer before some people here were even born.
BINGO! Same for Cakewalk for DOS, the Limelight DAW I was involved with and many others. They have a lot of existing debugged code.

MIDI and a tape machine for audio were the only ways to record music. And the MIDI was all hardware and often not multi-timbral. A two port MIDI computer interface was a big deal.

I still wish Reaper would catch up a little more on MIDI though. I know they are working on it and have high hopes for 5.1 or 5.2.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:26 AM   #143
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I would be curious actually to see the results of a vote thread about what genre the majority of the folks here is.
It smells like 90% 'acoustic' line-in recording folks, and I can be totally off but, there ya go and I feel very very veeeeery lonely.
And we can do the age statistics another day.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:05 AM   #144
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Hi guys. You all know that the Russian made a retrospective record for Reaper?
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:20 PM   #145
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Hi guys. You all know that the Russian made a retrospective record for Reaper?
Where??? (link please)
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:36 AM   #146
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This maybe?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168855
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Old 05-09-2016, 06:06 AM   #147
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Try this on Cubase, or Bitwig. Try playing and then change your buffer size between 64 <--> 1024, you won't notice much difference in latency. Though in some DAWs you need to restart it for it to 'really' take effect. Probably some auto-compensation computation that doesn't quite get set right. It's been that way in Cubase since as far as I can remember.
On Reaper, you get the latency you'd expect from our everyday logical understanding of latency. I don't know how the others DAWs do what they do, but it's not the simple 'standard way', that's for sure. I really lack this in Reaper though, keep hoping for something similar.
Hey Colox,

Used to mix on desktop through audio interfaces - no latency. Since switching to reaper and laptop for mixing without interface ( mac default drivers ) always had the really annoying and very noticeable latency you refer to here. for me it is also about 100ms ( at a guess ) Made live mixer automation ( mutes etc ) impossible . Got a new powerful desktop cpu audio laptop and same problem on default drivers. Plugged in RME and focusrite interfaces and tried mixing - no latency present at all regardless of block size Did have trouble actually getting sound with the old focusrite initially but nothing new there.

For me the problem is using default drivers. I notice in reaper preferences it mentions you will get better performance with ASIO drivers, but i didn't think the difference would be night and day.

Trialling cubase pro 8.5 soon ( got ilok ) just to see what I'm missing on midi side he he. I'm now thinking it might be the same problem on cubase unless it handles/reports to default drivers differently, as it seems to be a default driver issue rather than DAW but i could be wrong.

just thought i'd add that observation into the mix. I am very pleased to report this happy resolution but it does ( as already mentioned ) seem to suggest to me also that there might be something wrong with your driver setup if you are getting this sort of latency with a proper audio interface.

anyway, back to OP ( thanks for all work done around here by the way ) but I'm not sure i see the validity of comparing a full DAW ( reaper ) to only cubase Elements for performance max. load ? surely you'd need at least artist or pro for a meaningful comparison ?

cheers

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