Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Compatibility

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2014, 07:09 PM   #1
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default Control Surfaces - looking for some advice and direction...

Hi everyone. I've gotten to the point where I miss having a console in front of me for mixing, and I have determined that it would help my workflow immensely (I finished a long term experiment with a used Faderport, which has become essential to me, and proved that the control surface is what I need). So, with that, based on the over abundance of information on this particular subject in this very forum, I am stumped as to how to determine which would be best for me. The contenders are:

Mackie Pro Universal Control (seems to be the 'standard bearer' but pricey)

Icon QCon (nice looking, nice layout, but I worry about support based on reading in the forums)

Behringer X-Touch (when it eventually is released - but it's like buying the first model year of a car, you know....)

I also know there are a number of others that I can buy on the used market, but I worry about warranty and manufacturer support for models no longer manufactured. As you all know, downtime without an essential piece of gear is money out the window....

I know there are many top notch developers on here who have worked countless hours on their own time to enable these controllers to work well with Reaper. I'm just curious, based no what's out there, if you were going to plunk down money on a full control surface, which would you choose and why? Thanks in advance for any advice or direction you might offer.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 03:29 AM   #2
dixo
Human being with feelings
 
dixo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 92
Default iCON QCon Pro

Hi thunderbroom,

I recently took the plunge and bought an iCON QCon Pro. It arrived last friday and I have spent the weekend playing with it and exploring the various combinations of Reaper and device settings.
So far I am very happy with it, it looks and feels awesome, the faders are smooth and very quiet and it is bliss to have the scribble strip displays, jumping between track banks is so easy now.

The 'golden' combination for me is using the Klinke MCU plugin in Reaper, and have the QCon DAW mode set to Logic Pro. This combination supports almost all important features of the device and the plugin: folder mode, VU-meters, VST/VSTi control, transport, scrubbing, automation, etc.
The Klinke plugin is a 'must': the folder mode makes working with many tracks organized into folders (submixes) so convenient.

The latest firmwares of the QCon provide a "Reaper" DAW mode, but I found that it maps many Klinke plugin functions to inconvenient buttons on the device, and the LED VU-meters next to the faders did not work in Reaper mode with the Klinke plugin. The "Logic Pro" DAW mode maps all functions to buttons that in most cases correspond with the manual of the Klinke plugin, and with the labels on the QCon (so no overlays or sticky tape required).

The QCon provides fewer buttons than the Mackie MCU so some functionality of the plugin is not accessible from the QCon. The most crucial missing one is the 'Global View' button, which is used by the Klinke plugin to go back to the parent folder in folder mode. Fortunately, the latest version of the plugin supports mapping plugin actions via Reaper actions, so I have mapped that function to my keyboard (F12).

One minor issue is with the time/position LED display: the highest digit is not cleared when going back to a lower time/bars position. This is most notable in bars/beats counter mode, For example: if you are at bar 15 beat 3 the display shows 15030000, if you now jump back to the beginning of the song (bar 0 beat 0) it shows 10000000, i.e. the left-most digit is not cleared.

The Klinke plugin is really powerful, it adds so much more than just controlling the faders, especially the folder mode is a godsent.
Klinke currently does not support extender units (e.g. the QCon Ex) so you are limited to the 8 faders of the base unit. But for me that is currently no problem, the banking and the folder mode make it very workable even with my larger projects (for me that means about 16-24 tracks).
Oh, and it is only available for Windows, so if you are on OSX you should try something else, e.g. Geoff Waddington's plugin but I have no experience with that one.

Overall I am extremely happy with the QCon Pro, as far as I can tell almost all functionality of the Klinke MCU plugin is available via this surface and it is a joy to work with. And it costs only half of the Mackie unit, which was way out of my budget.

Cheers,
Dixo

Last edited by dixo; 10-06-2014 at 04:17 AM.
dixo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 01:58 PM   #3
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixo View Post
Hi thunderbroom,

I recently took the plunge and bought an iCON QCon Pro. It arrived last friday and I have spent the weekend playing with it and exploring the various combinations of Reaper and device settings.
So far I am very happy with it, it looks and feels awesome, the faders are smooth and very quiet and it is bliss to have the scribble strip displays, jumping between track banks is so easy now.

The 'golden' combination for me is using the Klinke MCU plugin in Reaper, and have the QCon DAW mode set to Logic Pro. This combination supports almost all important features of the device and the plugin: folder mode, VU-meters, VST/VSTi control, transport, scrubbing, automation, etc.
The Klinke plugin is a 'must': the folder mode makes working with many tracks organized into folders (submixes) so convenient.

The latest firmwares of the QCon provide a "Reaper" DAW mode, but I found that it maps many Klinke plugin functions to inconvenient buttons on the device, and the LED VU-meters next to the faders did not work in Reaper mode with the Klinke plugin. The "Logic Pro" DAW mode maps all functions to buttons that in most cases correspond with the manual of the Klinke plugin, and with the labels on the QCon (so no overlays or sticky tape required).

The QCon provides fewer buttons than the Mackie MCU so some functionality of the plugin is not accessible from the QCon. The most crucial missing one is the 'Global View' button, which is used by the Klinke plugin to go back to the parent folder in folder mode. Fortunately, the latest version of the plugin supports mapping plugin actions via Reaper actions, so I have mapped that function to my keyboard (F12).

One minor issue is with the time/position LED display: the highest digit is not cleared when going back to a lower time/bars position. This is most notable in bars/beats counter mode, For example: if you are at bar 15 beat 3 the display shows 15030000, if you now jump back to the beginning of the song (bar 0 beat 0) it shows 10000000, i.e. the left-most digit is not cleared.

The Klinke plugin is really powerful, it adds so much more than just controlling the faders, especially the folder mode is a godsent.
Klinke currently does not support extender units (e.g. the QCon Ex) so you are limited to the 8 faders of the base unit. But for me that is currently no problem, the banking and the folder mode make it very workable even with my larger projects (for me that means about 16-24 tracks).
Oh, and it is only available for Windows, so if you are on OSX you should try something else, e.g. Geoff Waddington's plugin but I have no experience with that one.

Overall I am extremely happy with the QCon Pro, as far as I can tell almost all functionality of the Klinke MCU plugin is available via this surface and it is a joy to work with. And it costs only half of the Mackie unit, which was way out of my budget.

Cheers,
Dixo
Dixo: Thanks for your detailed insight. This is really helpful, and in advance, answers a number of questions I had (I'm also a PC user). I was wondering, if I could push you a little bit more, regarding the Mackie interfaces - as I can probably get a universal control for less than retail on the slightly used market, price aside, are there any other reasons you would not choose a Mackie controller over the QCon? Thanks!
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 03:29 PM   #4
dixo
Human being with feelings
 
dixo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 92
Default

I can't tell you very much about the Mackie MCU, I don't own one and have never worked with one either. But from reading the manuals and looking at pictures and the unit itself in a store I think both the MCU and the QCon are very nice units that are very well designed and built. Personally I think the QCon looks a bit smarter and more modern but that is purely a matter of taste.

I chose the QCon because it was the best option within my budget. If money was no issue I think I would have chosen the Mackie because it is the ultimate standard that all other units are emulating. The Klinke plugin which you just *have* to use with Reaper because it offers so much functionality was designed for the Mackie because Klinke owns one. This means that *all* functions of the plugin will be available to you and the text of the manual will exactly match your device. Especially nice is that the MCU has a set of buttons that are not used by the Klinke plugin and are passed through by the plugin to Reaper for custom mapping. The QCon does not have that.

According to the manual the Mackie unit has a built-in 3 port MIDI interface while the QCon has a space to fit an optional 8-port audio interface unit in, but I will never use that. And the QCon has nice LED VU meters next to the faders which I don't think the Mackie has, but I am not 100% sure about that. The meters are not extremely accurate, but give a good indication of the track volume when you have your eyes on the faders.

If you are going to buy a used Mackie, make sure you get the later (post 2010) model. The faders on the earlier units apparently were not so good, according to Mackie themselves: http://www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/mcupro_faq.html

But whatever unit you choose I think you will be very happy, it makes such a huge difference to have real moving faders and buttons. At least to me it does.

Last edited by dixo; 10-07-2014 at 03:50 PM.
dixo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 06:26 AM   #5
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default Thank you yet again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixo View Post
I can't tell you very much about the Mackie MCU, I don't own one and have never worked with one either. But from reading the manuals and looking at pictures and the unit itself in a store I think both the MCU and the QCon are very nice units that are very well designed and built. Personally I think the QCon looks a bit smarter and more modern but that is purely a matter of taste.

I chose the QCon because it was the best option within my budget. If money was no issue I think I would have chosen the Mackie because it is the ultimate standard that all other units are emulating. The Klinke plugin which you just *have* to use with Reaper because it offers so much functionality was designed for the Mackie because Klinke owns one. This means that *all* functions of the plugin will be available to you and the text of the manual will exactly match your device. Especially nice is that the MCU has a set of buttons that are not used by the Klinke plugin and are passed through by the plugin to Reaper for custom mapping. The QCon does not have that.

According to the manual the Mackie unit has a built-in 3 port MIDI interface while the QCon has a space to fit an optional 8-port audio interface unit in, but I will never use that. And the QCon has nice LED VU meters next to the faders which I don't think the Mackie has, but I am not 100% sure about that. The meters are not extremely accurate, but give a good indication of the track volume when you have your eyes on the faders.

If you are going to buy a used Mackie, make sure you get the later (post 2010) model. The faders on the earlier units apparently were not so good, according to Mackie themselves: http://www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/mcupro_faq.html

But whatever unit you choose I think you will be very happy, it makes such a huge difference to have real moving faders and buttons. At least to me it does.
Dixo:

Thank you again for a most thoughtful and detailed response to my question. You've obviously done your homework; I really appreciate the information you've provided and look forward to chatting with you again on the forum. Best wishes.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 03:32 PM   #6
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixo View Post
I can't tell you very much about the Mackie MCU, I don't own one and have never worked with one either. But from reading the manuals and looking at pictures and the unit itself in a store I think both the MCU and the QCon are very nice units that are very well designed and built. Personally I think the QCon looks a bit smarter and more modern but that is purely a matter of taste.

I chose the QCon because it was the best option within my budget. If money was no issue I think I would have chosen the Mackie because it is the ultimate standard that all other units are emulating. The Klinke plugin which you just *have* to use with Reaper because it offers so much functionality was designed for the Mackie because Klinke owns one. This means that *all* functions of the plugin will be available to you and the text of the manual will exactly match your device. Especially nice is that the MCU has a set of buttons that are not used by the Klinke plugin and are passed through by the plugin to Reaper for custom mapping. The QCon does not have that.

According to the manual the Mackie unit has a built-in 3 port MIDI interface while the QCon has a space to fit an optional 8-port audio interface unit in, but I will never use that. And the QCon has nice LED VU meters next to the faders which I don't think the Mackie has, but I am not 100% sure about that. The meters are not extremely accurate, but give a good indication of the track volume when you have your eyes on the faders.

If you are going to buy a used Mackie, make sure you get the later (post 2010) model. The faders on the earlier units apparently were not so good, according to Mackie themselves: http://www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/mcupro_faq.html

But whatever unit you choose I think you will be very happy, it makes such a huge difference to have real moving faders and buttons. At least to me it does.
dixo:

Just wanted to update you that I ended up purchasing a practically new MCU Pro and just received it. I made sure to get the most recent model with the upgraded Alps faders and the most updated firmware. I "believe" I've downloaded the correct files for Klinke's plug ins - it was difficult to find a current link on the forum - Hopefully it won't be difficult to figure out how to install it and use it. Again, I appreciate your insightful detail and I'll keep you up to date on my attempts at installing this! Cheers
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 06:22 AM   #7
dixo
Human being with feelings
 
dixo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 92
Default

Hi thunderbroom,

Great to hear that you made your decision and could lay your hands on a recent MCU!
Installation of the Klinke extension is pretty easy in my experience, the main thread for it on this forum is: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=81818

But in short:
- Download the zip file from https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...mcu/downloads/ (as far as I know still the official location)
- Unzip it and copy/move the reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.dll (or reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_x64.dll if you are on 64 bit windows) to your Reaper programs dir. I can't remember the exact path and I am not at my studio PC right now, but it is the same dir where the standard Reaper reaper_csurf_mcu.dll is installed, so just use the 'find' function.
EDIT: also copy/move the MCU folder from the zip file to this location, it contains mapping for plugin control, and some default actions for Action mode.
- Connect the MCU and turn it on, start Reaper and open the 'Preferences' menu in Reaper.
- Do NOT enable the MCU midi interface under 'midi interfaces', instead go to the 'control surfaces' section at the bottom.
- Add a new control surface and choose the Klinke MCU from the drop-down, also choose the proper MCU midi interface here.

That should be all.
Also download the impressive manual Klinke wrote from the same location as the zip file, and study it. There is so much functionality in this extension, and it may take a while to get used to what all the buttons do. I feel I have not scratched the surface yet myself...

Good luck, and enjoy your new toy!

Cheers, dixo

Last edited by dixo; 11-14-2014 at 05:16 PM.
dixo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 08:01 PM   #8
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixo View Post
Hi thunderbroom,

Great to hear that you made your decision and could lay your hands on a recent MCU!
Installation of the Klinke extension is pretty easy in my experience, the main thread for it on this forum is: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=81818

But in short:
- Download the zip file from https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...mcu/downloads/ (as far as I know still the official location)
- Unzip it and copy/move the reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.dll (or reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke_x64.dll if you are on 64 bit windows) to your Reaper programs dir. I can't remember the exact path and I am not at my studio PC right now, but it is the same dir where the standard Reaper reaper_csurf_mcu.dll is installed, so just use the 'find' function.
- Connect the MCU and turn it on, start Reaper and open the 'Preferences' menu in Reaper.
- Do NOT enable the MCU midi interface under 'midi interfaces', instead go to the 'control surfaces' section at the bottom.
- Add a new control surface and choose the Klinke MCU from the drop-down, also choose the proper MCU midi interface here.

That should be all.
Also download the impressive manual Klinke wrote from the same location as the zip file, and study it. There is so much functionality in this extension, and it may take a while to get used to what all the buttons do. I feel I have not scratched the surface yet myself...

Good luck, and enjoy your new toy!

Cheers, dixo
dixo:

Your generosity of information and the detail you've provided have been really valuable; thank you. Being careful not to overstay my welcome, I had another question. After I did the csurf install successfully, and began reading through the manual, I realized there were 2 file folders in the original download of Klinke's file that were still in my downloads folder as I did not know where to put them - one is "Plug Maps" which contains a list of xml files for various fx; the other is "Config" which has the file ActionMode.xml. Any ideas on what to do with these? The manual simply states not to modify the contents, but not what to do with the contents. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 09:36 AM   #9
Aliraza179
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1
Default

This is one of the reasons I stopped using Jamstix and moved to EZD. The interface just seems to have so many little random bugs.
Aliraza179 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2014, 05:01 AM   #10
Klinke
Human being with feelings
 
Klinke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbroom View Post
dixo:

Your generosity of information and the detail you've provided have been really valuable; thank you. Being careful not to overstay my welcome, I had another question. After I did the csurf install successfully, and began reading through the manual, I realized there were 2 file folders in the original download of Klinke's file that were still in my downloads folder as I did not know where to put them - one is "Plug Maps" which contains a list of xml files for various fx; the other is "Config" which has the file ActionMode.xml. Any ideas on what to do with these? The manual simply states not to modify the contents, but not what to do with the contents. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
In the downloaded archive, you should have a folder called MCU that is on the same level as reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.dll (and the manual). The idea is to copy the complete folder into your Reaper plugins folder. But in the case, that you don't want to control plugins from the MCU (as you described in another thread) the PlugMaps aren't so important. The ActionMode.xml contains some default assigned actions, which are more meant as an example, what you can do, so also this file isn't important, the extension works also without problem, without them.
Klinke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2014, 07:41 AM   #11
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klinke View Post
In the downloaded archive, you should have a folder called MCU that is on the same level as reaper_csurf_mcu_klinke.dll (and the manual). The idea is to copy the complete folder into your Reaper plugins folder. But in the case, that you don't want to control plugins from the MCU (as you described in another thread) the PlugMaps aren't so important. The ActionMode.xml contains some default assigned actions, which are more meant as an example, what you can do, so also this file isn't important, the extension works also without problem, without them.
Klinke:

Thanks for your reply and for your time. I'll work on this in my studio this morning. Cheers!
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 05:22 PM   #12
dixo
Human being with feelings
 
dixo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 92
Default

Hi, sorry for the late response, I was out of town with no internet access.
My install instructions were indeed a bit incomplete, sorry about that. Klinke's manual clearly states the the MCU folder should also be copied to the folder with the dll's.
Personally I have yet to use the Action mode, so not much experience to share at the moment.
dixo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 07:04 PM   #13
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixo View Post
Hi, sorry for the late response, I was out of town with no internet access.
My install instructions were indeed a bit incomplete, sorry about that. Klinke's manual clearly states the the MCU folder should also be copied to the folder with the dll's.
Personally I have yet to use the Action mode, so not much experience to share at the moment.
dixo:

No apologies necessary, my friend. I got it all sorted out with a message directly from the master Klinke himself. It's all good. And I do appreciate you getting back to me nonetheless. Have a great week.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.