Old 10-12-2016, 10:11 PM   #41
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The next version of Reaper, version 6 or perhaps version 5.5 could do it this way for starters :

Alternate layouts and graphics for 150 DPI+ displays.

The default theme would point the way with the buttons and controls rendered for such a display with custom layouts. We already have one "small" version of most layouts and one "large" version, but we need something even bigger for 150 DPI+ displays that are becoming more common.

Two sets of layouts. Switchable. No new TCP/MCP layouts choice on a per track basis necessary.

Standard default theme layouts for the currently most common displays.

Large default theme layouts for 150 DPI+ displays. Reaper could detect highresolution displays and offer to switch its theme layouts to the HighDPI versions.

@ White Tie, would that be worth it at the moment ?
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:29 AM   #42
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The free Studio One Prime is artificially limited in features (e.g. does not support VST plugins at all), and there is some probability that it lacks HiDPI support.

As for testing DPI-awareness of an arbitrary application in general, you don’t need a 4K display for that, it’s enough just to set Windows zoom to 200%.
Yeah - posted in haste! I went on to try and do a small project and as you said - no vsts. Forgot that even the artist vcersion originally didnt support them. Weird... reminded me why I no longer use S1 very much. But bearing in mind your comments about even the Daws that do work having issues with non-scalable plugs this is looking more and more like Justin needs to make a decision to go ahead and implement, in the hope/assumption that the non-compliant plug makers will either comply or die eventually.
Maybe the reluctance is because it is such a mammoth task to overhaul reapers code to accomodate this.... Hopefully not.
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:09 AM   #43
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Default 100% plugin compatibility is possible

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this is looking more and more like Justin needs to make a decision to go ahead and implement, in the hope/assumption that the non-compliant plug makers will either comply or die eventually.
Maybe the reluctance is because it is such a mammoth task to overhaul reapers code to accomodate this.... Hopefully not.
As I said, implementing VST host as a separate executable would allow to achieve 100% compatibility with all VST plugins — both DPI-aware and non-DPI-aware.

This could just be a next (more complex) step after providing a global setting for scaling Reaper GUI by pixel duplication as the very first and simplest effort to make Reaper HiDPI-compatible.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:17 AM   #44
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MT_ I am being nosy - obviously from your join date and the exclusive nature of your posts, you joined the forum specifically for this thread.
Presumably you have some kind of a horse in this race, so how about sharing?
P.S. Rude lot that we are, we all forgot to say welcome to the forum!
I for one am finding your contributions very interesting.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:35 AM   #45
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you joined the forum specifically for this thread.
Exactly.

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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Presumably you have some kind of a horse in this race, so how about sharing?
I’m not sure (actually have no idea) what you mean. Could you reword / be more specific? (I’m not a native english speaker.)

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welcome to the forum!
I for one am finding your contributions very interesting.
Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:09 PM   #46
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Sorry - its an expression & as a non-native french speaker I get tripped up by them all the time!
Should know better.

I meant to ask if you have some "serious" (work or major league hobbyist) interest in the development of a 4k compatible mode for reaper (or indeed other software)
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:24 PM   #47
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I meant to ask if you have some "serious" (work or major league hobbyist) interest in the development of a 4k compatible mode for reaper (or indeed other software)
I’m a web developer. Programming for Windows is just a hobby like composing music. I’m not involved in development of a DAW or a VST host.

I believe/hope small teams like the one behind Reaper are typically much more flexible and open to innovations than large monopoly-type companies used to release outdated software over and over again for years.

Last edited by MT_; 10-17-2016 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:14 PM   #48
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For what it’s worth, I’ve posted a nicely formatted answer to a related question at Music.StackExchange.com about 4K support in Reaper.

Also, I’ve updated my first comment here in this thread according to what I’ve discovered during experiments. TL;DR: In fact, Reaper’s VST host is already implemented as a separate executable, so the only thing we need is just proper scaling of Reaper’s itself GUI, and probably the simplest and fastest way to achieve this is to scale the current non-HiDPI GUI of Reaper by pixel duplication (and therefore without blur).
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:21 PM   #49
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Let's pray Cockos get their grips on this.

I really can't stand the un-sharpness of Reaper GUI on my Macbook Retina any longer.
I now often open Logic Pro X, not to make music in it, but just have a look at it's incredible sharp looking GUI, which gives me a big feeling of happiness . ..:0/ lol.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:30 PM   #50
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Default HTML/CSS/JS GUI

It may make sense for the Reaper team to consider switching Reaper GUI to using a web-browser engine, e.g. with a cross-platform Chromium/Node.js-based framework Electron by the GitHub team.

This would probably simplify both implementing a HiDPI GUI for Reaper and creating custom visual themes as those would then be based on standard HTML, CSS and JavaScript.

Last edited by MT_; 11-26-2016 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:45 AM   #51
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Any news about HiDPI support in Reaper? Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:50 AM   #52
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Consult the latest pre..
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:31 AM   #53
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Consult the latest pre..
Could you be more specific? Do you mean just to try the latest prerelease version? If so, that’s unfortunately not enough. The feature may not be available in any public version (incl. betas and RCs) while its implementation may still be in progress behind the curtain.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:59 AM   #54
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Could you be more specific? Do you mean just to try the latest prerelease version? If so, that’s unfortunately not enough. The feature may not be available in any public version (incl. betas and RCs) while its implementation may still be in progress behind the curtain.
Sorry I was vague because prelease discussion should be kept to the prelease forum, but it has been in the years I've used reaper, 99.99% safe to use a prerelease for regular use, but to be safe can install as 'portable'
Or just wait a a couple of weeks!

But the main point is the answer to your question is that something is being done for v5.32
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:17 PM   #55
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something is being done for v5.32
Thanks. AFAIK, 5.32 just has a fix for a cursor-position-related issue in the same blurry DPI-virtualization mode (Windows turns this mode on for all non-DPI-aware apps). This has nothing to do with HiDPI support, and, as I said, my question is about possible progress not obvious from any publicly available versions.

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Old 01-15-2017, 05:50 PM   #56
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Finer points lost in translation a bit.. there is a related new option that may or may help you, will see soon enough. you are probably right though .
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:08 AM   #57
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Knock knock, excuse me, may I come in?

And they say MAC is 5K and on tiny screen? and I am going for a 4K 40"++ and a little worried still lol.
I would like to see some camerashots (not screenshots) of someones screen with some Well Known 3rd party VSTs on 4K or something.
I could regret asking for it but hey, 8K sounds like pushing it.
And you don't have to chose a VST that is small on a 1280X768 on purpose aight? ...
Also, how well does a 4K handle going to 1920x1080 if one feels like doing that at demand? would calm me dawn abit if that was OK'ish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHj7ogGfwCM
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:07 AM   #58
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I guess my 4K goals are different. I went from 2 21" 1920s to a 43" 4K so I would have twice as much area - more stuff displayed at a time, while keeping items the same physical size. I don't care about glitzy stuff, I don't like scrolling and hunting for windows and moving things around to see something else.

So FOR ME, Reaper with 4K is perfect

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Old 01-26-2017, 11:54 AM   #59
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Thank you Bob!
I was thinking of playing it safe with 2560x1440 but I decided to add to the statistics so 4K get support faster, ready to have to wait a while for support, "a - while.."
Heck, the rate GPUs are improving, why wait and why use AA or SMRGERGSUPERYXYX-AA and what ever.
I am not only after more space, I would also like to sacrifice the more pixels so stuff got even more detailed, sharper, cooler, better.
If you go to your graphic card settings and lower the resolution to 1080 on your 4K, will stuff be acceptable blurry or?
Thanks for beeing a champ.
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:24 PM   #60
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Default HiDPI is about zoom more than 100%

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I am going for a 4K 40"++ and a little worried

how well does a 4K handle going to 1920x1080 if one feels like doing that at demand?
HiDPI is entirely about OS-level zoom of more than 100%. With non-DPI-aware applications like Reaper, you get either unusably small user interface (when DPI-awareness is forced for specific application or the application falsely declares itself as DPI-aware while actually not performing any scaling) or blurry UI due to bilinear or bicubic bitmap-based scaling applied even at integer ratios like in case of FHD→4K when scaling could actually be done via pixel duplication (one logical pixel = 2×2 physical pixels in case of FHD→4K) with no blur at all.

All today’s 4K monitors and GPUs unfortunately introduce blur when scaling regardless of whether the scale ratio is integer. See corresponding threads at GeForce and AMD (+ previous thread) forums.

If you are going to use non-DPI-aware applications like Reaper at OS-level zoom of 100%, then there should be no problems as long as you are fine with size of elements on your screen.
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:48 PM   #61
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Hey MT yeah, I read you and you made me realize one thing (woke me up) I can try the same thing Right Now to 1360x768 on my 1080p monitor, doh!
And I instantly had to check, scale to full screen and override application setting through my IGPU.
I guess I was hoping that 4K was a magic number vs 1080p so it was even better than me now going from 1920x1080 to 1360x768 testing that and that maby some brands/panels might do better job then others, hoping for some magic technology.
I get that any scaling can't be good though, and now when I tried scaling down, it is not That, bad.. but yeah, I would be attracted to 4k software support and biased anyway I think when the time comes.
Thank you for the coffee & info MT.

Ps, oops, forgot vector, I have some reading to do.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:20 PM   #62
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Thank you Bob!
I was thinking of playing it safe with 2560x1440 but I decided to add to the statistics so 4K get support faster, ready to have to wait a while for support, "a - while.."
Heck, the rate GPUs are improving, why wait and why use AA or SMRGERGSUPERYXYX-AA and what ever.
I am not only after more space, I would also like to sacrifice the more pixels so stuff got even more detailed, sharper, cooler, better.
If you go to your graphic card settings and lower the resolution to 1080 on your 4K, will stuff be acceptable blurry or?
Thanks for beeing a champ.
Why would I want to run at 1080? Without even trying, I feel confident that a 43" display running at 1920x1080 will NOT look very good

I have NEVER needed to run displays at anything other than the highest possible resolution they can provide, so I can't think of any cases where that would be desirable.

What I CAN understand is buying a new laptop with a small-ish 4K screen and needing to run a lower resolution to keep from going blind trying to see things. However, I don't understand the idea behind running at a higher resolution, then scaling the display above 100% to make things look bigger again.

As far as detail and coolness factors go, I have no desire to have Reaper (or any other app) look like a Transformer. I don't like fugly either though The LCS mods to Imperial are perfect appearance-wise for me. Thanks again Lucas!!
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:40 PM   #63
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Because if something rrrrefuse to be large/readeable enough, I could do it that way and I must admit that I am way ahead of myself and maby a little Schooby Doo atm, maby.
But you saying that you have no problems helps, since you are at a size I would go for so I appreciate it.
I am just little scared not beeing comphy and nothing I can do about it with some plug-ins & stuff.
Like, I can tweak something and then something else won't use the same logic, so something humongous, something normal, and something else an ant on Andromeda..
Yeah well Lucas, I will go for semi-coolness then.
Imperial seem to be made for 2560x1440 x 2 or something so I am not worried about that.
Thanks for the support, I will go for it.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:21 PM   #64
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I've had this 4K for quite a while now. The only difference, because of the physical size I chose, is that I have more screen real estate without frames in the middle. This is exactly like having a 4X 1920x1080 display set without the boundaries between them.

I'm not a gamer, no 3D or intense video work. DAWs are the most demanding graphics I use and they are unchanged because the DPI hasn't changed.

I realize my experience isn't the same as everybody else's. I'm just saying that for what *I* do, 4K is an awesome experience with zero cons.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:12 AM   #65
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Roger that Lucas, I will go for it anyway, I have decided and i'm mentally commited, nu turning back now, and I wont blame you if I find something "annoying, I promise.
Good times ahead, thanks man.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:56 AM   #66
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I guess my 4K goals are different. I went from 2 21" 1920s to a 43" 4K so I would have twice as much area - more stuff displayed at a time, while keeping items the same physical size. I don't care about glitzy stuff, I don't like scrolling and hunting for windows and moving things around to see something else.

So FOR ME, Reaper with 4K is perfect

Sensible use of the extra resolution, this is what 4k is for, essentially all the extra real estate of multi monitor, but frameless.
Pixel peeper refinement is mostly cobblers, especially for larger displays. Gobbling up processing power and electricity for questionable benefits, most of the time.
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:00 AM   #67
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Etymology[edit]
Shortened from cobbler’s awls, for balls (testicles or nonsense)

I might move to UK some day, hilarious'ness you are.
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:32 AM   #68
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Nonetheless such idioms often make the use of forums hard for non-English native speakers.

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Old 01-27-2017, 04:51 AM   #69
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If Softie and me was at a fine restaurant, I would lol though, just not used to it so the effect would provoke a lol.
A UK native would just finish the dinner, 0.001 reaction maby.
But if you are saying that this is mostly a forum thing, and irl UK people don't speak like this?
Also, I am a little bit SmajjLoL with spelling to be fair, but yep, some have it harder than me I have No Doubt.
Also, reading "licence agreements" and stuff is noooot my thing, i'd call mschnell.
I'm cool though, please note.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:22 AM   #70
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Nonetheless such idioms often make the use of forums hard for non-English native speakers.

-Michael
You could replace the word I use with anything unintelligible and anyone would understand the meaning in the context of the sentence.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:24 AM   #71
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If Softie and me was at a fine restaurant, I would lol though, just not used to it so the effect would provoke a lol.
A UK native would just finish the dinner, 0.001 reaction maby.
Ah yes, fine dining and shouting "Cobblers" at the top of your voice, a fine British tradition!
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:35 AM   #72
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*Swedish LoL* oww oww oww, good job.
Ps, EasyJet, here I come UK! and I have a feeling that the "wrong" side of the road will suit me fine like a glow.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:35 AM   #73
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@BobF:

43" 4k is the equivalent physical pixel size of 21" 1080p?
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:45 AM   #74
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@BobF:

43" 4k is the equivalent physical pixel size of 21" 1080p?
Very roughly. I had 2 21" 1920 x 1080 side by side for 3840 x 1080 total. I could have added a second set of 2 and arranged 2 x 2 for a total of 3840 x 2160. Instead I went for a single 3840 x 2160 panel that is 43". I still have one of the 1920x1080 displays connected and off to the side for ancillary apps. If I drag a window from the large display to the smaller, the physical appearance isn't noticeably different. IOW, yes, the DPI is roughly the same.

I probably could've gone an inch or two smaller, but I didn't want to end up squinting and scaling, and 43" is what I found on sale for $390
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:01 PM   #75
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Follow up:

Using the calculator at http://kingscalculator.com/en/other-...ity-calculator

Pixel density of 21.5" 1920 x 1080 = 102 PPI
Pixel density of 43" 3640 x 2160 = 98 PPI

So the 43" diplays slightly larger. The PPI at 41" = 103 for the closest to exact match
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:15 PM   #76
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Oh maaaan! thanks Lucas again! from me, perfect.
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Old 01-29-2017, 12:27 PM   #77
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http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...=1#post1793867

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Old 01-30-2017, 04:11 PM   #78
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Is 4k TV pixels as sharp as 4k monitor pixels?
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:43 AM   #79
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I went for 32" since I will work-rest-and-play at little longer than an arms distance and I see great at close range.
The HiDPI x2 is 23 MCPs wide and 20'ish minimized TCPs but the Items will be a nice practical size anyway (speaking 4 myself) and if I will not do a 30.000 track song then why not, it's a very nice feel to see pixels like that.
The nonHiDPI theme is 40 1/2 MCPs wide (Large Layout) and 51'ish minimized TCPs.
I .. got used to this Very fast'er then I thought and can even work with the normal theme at my distance if, I felt like it, would do minor tweaks to the vol/pan text etc, but yeah, it's great to chose.

And that Imperial v5 default is almost 41 MCPs and does not even.. take up half the hight screen estate and you can actuaLoLy work with mixer below the arrange as "usual" (but it is a tall thing though) sfms.. cool!
The Stockholm does Not make it hard on the eyes at all.

So HiDPI aware, Windows10 @ 150%, Text size 10 bold and maintain display scaling on Intel iGPU works for me.
And if I feel like lowering the res, actually way better than I expected, wow thank gawd specially for gameing maby.

Thank you people supporting me while deciding, turned out great! thank gawd.

Ps, let the themeing mockups begin..
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Last edited by SmajjL; 03-29-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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