Old 01-05-2017, 11:51 PM   #1
mschnell
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Default Compressing a project

I tested to consolidate an entire project to losslessly compressed WavPack format and indeed the disk space saving is some 70 %.

But in the process, some reaper project information is lost. e.g. the splitting of tracks in multiple items and with that the item properties such as the state of being deleted.

I had expected that the project would stay as it is and just the file format is swapped under the hood.

Is this by design, a bug, or am I doing something wrong ?

-Michael
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Is this by design, a bug, or am I doing something wrong ?

-Michael
It could be all 3.
Maybe it's time cockos devs look at what works and what does not at this moment,before any moves to develop new actions/tools/configurations.
I think programme stability and repeatable performance is worth the investment.

It's 1 of my personal gripes and shortcommings- getting to know what and how stuff works--just for all that to disappear with programme upgrades etc etc.

By the time users get to learning something-along comes a new update to put user back to being a 'noob' again..... having to rea learn stuff is not always much fun.. lol sigh.
What used to work sometimes now does not- and sometimes fixing 1 thing breaks another(i'm sure devs are well aware of this.)

Stability and repeatable dependability are good for *me and programmes in general=)
On top of that,users reconfigure their operating and audio interface systems- I wish really there was just 1 brilliant system for all-- forget windows/mac wars make them as 1 -bringing the very best of the best to all in 1 simple system.
Basically makes a lot of sense if every user is working from the same book and pages.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:51 AM   #3
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Anybody ?

In fact what I was trying to accomplish is just to change the audio file format under the hood. Not "Glueing" and items nor loose the audio not covered by items.

This seem like a rather valid task to do. How do I need to set the options for "consolidate" or is there any other recommended method ?

-Michael
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:57 AM   #4
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My first guess is that you forgot to uncheck Ignore silence shorter than: _______
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #5
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I'll retry ASAP.

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:39 AM   #6
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I checked out multiple option in the consolidate parameters, but in any case in the resulting project, the tracks got "glued" (there only is a single item per track and the item volume is set to 0 dB).

Is this intentional ?

Are there other options to just change the encoding of the WAV files (other than fiddling with software outside the appropriate Reaper project) ?

-Michael
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Last edited by mschnell; 01-11-2017 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:49 AM   #7
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Sounds to me what you want is not "Consolidate" (because this indeed is mainly for creating a single item per track) but "Save project as...", bottom of Save dialog: "Copy all media into project directory, using Convert media..."

(Save into a new folder, delete old if wanted)
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
"Save project as...", bottom of Save dialog: "Copy all media into project directory, using Convert media..."
That does indeed work.

Funnily (supposedly useful in other cases), also the impulse files used by any ReaVerb instances are moved in the new directory, as well, and the appropriate location settings in the project file are updated. I would need to revert this manually.

Can this be prevented ?

Thanks again,
-Michael
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
That does indeed work.

Funnily (supposedly useful in other cases), also the impulse files used by any ReaVerb instances are moved in the new directory, as well, and the appropriate location settings in the project file are updated. I would need to revert this manually.

Can this be prevented ?

Thanks again,
-Michael
Hi Michael,
just check the "Copy all media into project directory ..." option and NOT the second option which is "Move all media into project directory ...". Then, in your new project directory will be copies of ReaVerb impulses and other audio files, while original source files will remain intact.

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Old 01-11-2017, 11:03 PM   #10
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Ooops ! Thanks.

"Media" is the (also) impulse files and not (just) the track audio data ?!?!?

Not obvious to me. Silly me should be reading the Manual

-Michael
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:03 PM   #11
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Later ...

The impulses get copied nonetheless.

-Michael
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I tested to consolidate an entire project to losslessly compressed WavPack format and indeed the disk space saving is some 70 %.

But in the process, some reaper project information is lost. e.g. the splitting of tracks in multiple items and with that the item properties such as the state of being deleted.

I had expected that the project would stay as it is and just the file format is swapped under the hood.

Is this by design, a bug, or am I doing something wrong ?

-Michael
I think what you expected by using consolidate was something like "convert files to desired audio format in place". Unfortunately, Reaper currently does not have such a conversion-in-place function. This feature is very much needed, though!
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:25 PM   #13
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"Save as" to the current folder with only the project saved and the audio files located in that folder copied would be rather appropriate.

Maybe this can be be accomplished by some external tool or by a script ?

Any further ideas ?

-Michael
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:05 AM   #14
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Hi, mschnell,
I am not sure I understand what exactly you need to achieve, but here are some other tips to let you go, maybe:

- project can be set-up so that new recorded files are recorded into its (project's) folder or additional subfolders ... (File -> Project settings... -> Media tab: ... blank means inside the project folder = the same path as project file).

! TIP!: Make yourself a favour and first save the new project into its own folder. Since then everything will come inside there.


- imported audio files (those that already reside somewhere on your harddrive or CD/DVD anywhere and you want to use them in current project - e.g. loops, SFX etc.) can also be copied to this "project directory" when importing to timeline - there is an option for this in preferences (Media -> Media settings: "Copy imported media to project media directory" option)

akademie

Last edited by akademie; 01-17-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akademie View Post
Hi, mschnell,
I am not sure I understand what exactly you need to achieve,
I'll file a Feature Request in the appropriate forum.

-Michael
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:43 AM   #16
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mschnell, I think I got it.
You propose that there could/should be more independent checkmark options in "Save project as..." dialog window instead of only the one "Copy ALL MEDIA into project directory ..."

e.g. like this?
o "Copy all AUDIO ITEM media into project directory ...
o "Copy all REASAMPLOMATIC5000 SAMPLES into project directory ...
o "Copy all REAVERB IMPULSES into project directory ...

Isn't it?

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Old 01-17-2017, 07:56 AM   #17
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Well, I just read the FR you filed and have to say that I am lost :-/

Still, I think that using "Save project as..." with option Copy all media ... and checking Convert media {FORMAT} and Trim media, tail size {in milliseconds} is almost the THING you need.

That way in new folder will be reaper project file, all used audio files in new format and only as long as they are used in project, (although also impulses and reasamplomatic sampels will be included).

The part of it to not loose the original filepaths to reaimpulses and samples may be valid, but from anothe perspective - Why will you do this "backup" process? To be able to move project to another place where anything of sources is not available, so then you will need to supply those ir and samples also. As backup for "next time" = the same case, you want to preserve all source and supporting files... (you could also include ReaConfig backup in that case).

akademie

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Old 01-17-2017, 10:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akademie View Post
Why will you do this "backup" process?
I have a drive that holds all the reaper projects (recorded and then edited), but not any "common" data, like impulse files or samples.

I'd like to compress older projects to free some space on that drive. Using Wavpack and getting rid of silence will at least free 75%.

Seems like a rather common request.

-Michael
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:52 AM   #19
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Not sure about wavpack (they showed up too late in the game to unseat FLAC) but FYI, FLAC makes blank space (or very low level nearly blank space) very small since most of the data is zero-fill.

That means you can be lazy and neglect to trim down files and so forth and still not really take a space hit for it.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:02 AM   #20
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mschnell,
I have just tried to create custom macro.
Here it is:

----------------------------------------
Item: Unselect all items
SWS/BR: Select all audio items
Item: Render items to new take
Take: Crop to active take in items
File: Save new version of project (automatically increment project name)
File: Clean current project directory
----------------------------------------
... Check the "Consolidate undo points" option under edit field of macro window.

! Note: First you have to change desired format of rendered audio in Project settings (Media tab - Format for Apply FX, Glue, Freeze, etc.)

At the moment I don't know how to handle muted items (so that they are also converted and not muted = rendered to silent audio). Also when multiple takes are used, then the situation may be way complicated...

! CAUTION ! : Be carefull as it will delete your original source files. So always test on copies..

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Old 01-17-2017, 11:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Not sure about wavpack (they showed up too late in the game to unseat FLAC) but FYI, FLAC makes blank space (or very low level nearly blank space) very small since most of the data is zero-fill.
WavPack has the same ability so no need to bother about very low level or even digital silence in files. Furthermore, WavPack can compress and decompress 32 bit float files. FLAC cannot handle 32 bit FP files at all and also cannot encode 32 bit integer files (http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php...dec_.28FLAC.29).

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Old 01-17-2017, 11:23 AM   #22
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And another way would be using a "Batch file/item converter" (Last item in File menu).

0) Save your project

1) Select all audio items manually or using action from SWS (see previous post)

2) In batch converter add those files to queue using button Add...
3)Here select "Add selected media item(s)"
As filename select $source (can be picked from Wildcards button. This way new files will have identical filenames (except extension of course).

4) Set your prefered settings/options as desired (Output format, sample rate, channels, ....)
5) Hit "Convert all" button (now there are will be both file types (source and new converted ones) in project folder

6) Close project without saving
7) Delete all source type files from the folder (e.g. all WAVs, leave there only new FLACs or WV)

8) Open project and when complaining about missing files, browse to the first one that is asked for and select appropriate one. Confirm, all others will be resolved and loaded automatically.

9) Save your new project.

10) Get a beer

akademie

P.S:: This method should solve that problem with multiple takes and muted items, I think. (But not sure as I have not tested such cases).

EDIT: Quick test revealed that the mentioned problems are the same using this method.

!! BUT:

You can run Batch converter normaly on all source files in project directory...

(so steps:
-add all audio files from project dir to Batch converter
-select and set everything as already has been said (and output dir the same as input)
-convert and close converter
-delete orig files from dir
-open project and pick new file when complaining about missing ones..
-save new compressed version after project has loaded

This will convert plain audio files so no problems with their state in project (mute/ inactive take...)
:-)

Last edited by akademie; 01-17-2017 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
YI, FLAC makes blank space (or very low level nearly blank space) very small since most of the data is zero-fill.
This is great ! I did not know that FLAC is a lossless format, but now I checked

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Old 01-17-2017, 03:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
WavPack has the same ability so no need to bother about very low level or even digital silence in files.
Great !
Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akademie View Post
And another way would be using a "Batch file/item converter" (Last item in File menu).
This in fact seems to be what the developers wants us to use for that purpose...

-Michael
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:49 PM   #26
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Does FLAC save wav source file metadata like I'm pretty sure WavOack does? Stuff like embedded position, etc?.



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Old 01-17-2017, 04:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
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This is great ! I did not know that FLAC is a lossless format, but now I checked

-Michael
Yep. It's the default release format nowadays too and also supports surround formats.

It's true that FLAC does not support 32 bit fp containers and WavPack does however. If you have a bunch of intermediate 32 bit fp files to compress, maybe WavPack is the choice. It appears like the "pro" or more "official" format in a way but FLAC came first, got momentum, and became the release format and archive format of choice.

I'm not sure of any metadata restrictions in FLAC. I don't think so but don't quote me.
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